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Author Topic: Is it double standards ?  (Read 3499 times)

Offline clips

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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2004, 07:48:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Is it not true that according to Islam (or some sect) you are promised a place in paradise with (insert number here) virgins if you die a martyr?  

Lets start with a history lesson:  

Since the UN\'s name is being tossed around a lot in this thread lets start there - The UN approved the partition of Palestine to form a Jewish state of Israel.  The Arabs didn\'t approve of this.

The first Arab Israeli War started in 1948 when the armies of Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Syria, Lebanon and Iraq joined Palestinian and other Arab guerillas in attacking Israel.  Israel ended up defeating all six nations and the UN brokered 4 seperate Peace Treaties.  There were several other wars throughout the sixties and seventies - the Yom Kippur War for example, where Egypt and Syria attacked Israel on it\'s holiest day.  Granted the US supported Israel with aid, but most Arabs and anti Israeli\'s tend forget that the USSR supported the Arab states in this conflict with aid as well.  

If you look at any map of Israel and Palestine prior to this attack you will Palestine had much more territory than Israel - illegal occupation?  :laughing: I don\'t think so... The Arabs tried to "illegally" destroy Israel\'s right to exist and lost.  To this day only Egypt and Jordan agree with Israel\'s right to exist so I don\'t blame them for not giving back the West Bank.  Egypt used diplomacy and peace to get back the Sinai Penninsula from Israel by recognizing its right to exist.  Is it Israel\'s fault if Syria and the Palestinians refuse to do the same?  

I agree with Bush\'s support of Israel not giving back any of the territory it won in a war it did not start.  The PALS don\'t want peace and in the same process don\'t really want a country for themselves.  Even fellow Arabs look down on PALS.  It is the Arabs doing by not recognizing Israel\'s right to exist and vowing the destruction of Israel.  I used to feel sorry for the PALS, but not anymore - they don\'t want peace - that is evident by their constant attacks on Israeli civilians.  They are also barbaric in sending naive innocent children to military checkpoints packing bombs.  Truly disgusting.  :mad:


i basicly agree with most of your post as i have always wondered the history of the israeli & palestinian war...but i agree 100% on what you stated in your last paragraph...the palestinians send young children to do their suicide attacks, i know israel isn\'t innocent at all in this charade,..but there isn\'t that much pain & suffering in the world to be doin\' s**t like that! And a few times i have seen some interviews with some of the palestinian officials & the tone i got from them was that they want israel gone completly.

i don\'t see why they just can\'t share the land..they\'re so intertwined with each other on a daily basis..i fail to see why it can\'t happen. that section of the world will always know violence..
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Offline GigaShadow
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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2004, 07:57:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tyrant
thats nice some one who actually knows the history of it all.. but to correct you in the first war it wasnt israel alone that defeated the all those countries it was with the help of britain and france i think...
as for the other wars well not much can be said really....

and regarding the last point well i somewhat agree with u but saying that the palestineans dont want peace is absurd, not everyone (palestinean, israeli or otherwise) wants to see a loved one or commrade get hurt (or killed), just coz their are some groups (on both sides mind you) that have no other reason to exsist but to keep the war going and create more carnage doesnt mean that all the other people dont want peace.
as for the pals attacking isreali civillians well in that same context the isreali\'s are not justified in killing palestinean civillians, i could care less if they attack members of the militia\'s but putting a .50cal bullet thru the head of a 14 year old palestinean throwing a stone aint justified.


As for war you are talking about... During the 1950s there was considerable tension between Israel and Egypt, which, under President Nasser, had become a leader in the Arab world. His nationalization of the Suez Canal 1956 provided an opportunity for Israel with Britain and France, to attack Egypt and occupy a part of Palestine that Egypt had controlled since 1949, the Gaza Strip , from which Israel was forced by UN and US pressure to withdraw 1957.

This wasn\'t an Arab Israeli War in terms of the other wars that were fought.  This Suez conflict was precisely that - all about the Suez Canal.  Britain and France didn\'t like fact that Egypt nationalized that canal.  Funny how the Arab world forgets that it was UN and US pressure that made Israel was forced to withdraw the first time.  

The PAL leadership is ineffective and no peace will ever come about as long as Yassir Arafat is at the helm.  He privately condones the terror attacks that he believes will achieve his goal.  One would think after 15 years of not achieving it, one would try a different approach.  The PALS for the most part bring the violence upon themselves.  Why would any fool throw rocks at tanks?  IMO Israel has had enough of the PAL BS and is taking a more drastic approach.  As sad as it is, if the PAL\'s stopped with their attacks they would have all the sympathy in the world for their plight.
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Offline GigaShadow
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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2004, 08:04:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by clips

i don\'t see why they just can\'t share the land..they\'re so intertwined with each other on a daily basis..i fail to see why it can\'t happen. that section of the world will always know violence..


That is the irony of the whole situation - look at this map of Israel in 1948 - the blue area is Israel and the other area is Palestine.  Notice how much land the PAL\'s have?  The arrows show the Arab attack.  They had their country and threw it away.
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Offline Black Samurai
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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2004, 09:04:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I believe our closeness with Israel is due to the fact they are one of the few if not the only stable democracy in the region.
I think that is a "chicken or the egg" type situation. Are they the most stable democracy BECAUSE of our support or do we support them because they are a stable democracy. It really can be argued either way.
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2004, 09:08:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Black Samurai
I think that is a "chicken or the egg" type situation. Are they the most stable democracy BECAUSE of our support or do we support them because they are a stable democracy. It really can be argued either way.


:stick: ehhh what is your point?  They are a stable democracy - who cares if it is because of our support.  Not trying to be an ass Black Sam, but that post is ummm... have you been lighting up today?  I think this is a prime example of brain cell loss. :D
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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2004, 09:22:44 AM »
You said that the reason that we are close to Israel is because they are a stable democracy. I am saying that your statement is arguable. They may be a stable democracy BECAUSE of our support. If we had NO connection with Israel would they be as "stable" as they are now? I really don\'t think so.


[EDIT] Basically, I think there may be other reasons why we are so close to Israel. Not necessarily religious.

Lesser of two evils? (Not that Israel is evil.)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2004, 09:25:38 AM by Black Samurai »
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Offline GigaShadow
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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2004, 09:29:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Black Samurai
You said that the reason that we are close to Israel is because they are a stable democracy. I am saying that your statement is arguable. They may be a stable democracy BECAUSE of our support. If we had NO connection with Israel would they be as "stable" as they are now? I really don\'t think so.


[EDIT] Basically, I think there may be other reasons why we are so close to Israel. Not necessarily religious.

Lesser of two evils? (Not that Israel is evil.)


I never argued that without our help they wouldn\'t be a stable democracy.  They get loans from the US  Govt, but they also get money Jews living in the US.  I don\'t think it matters "why" they are stable as much as that they are.  Would anyone like to see a hostile PAL state in its place?  I sure as hell wouldn\'t.
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Offline Ashford
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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2004, 09:38:28 AM »
Anyone gonna answer my question?
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2004, 09:45:02 AM »
They can\'t, but I can!
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Offline Ashford
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« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2004, 10:03:43 AM »
Please do...
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2004, 10:26:25 AM »
Technically Israel did attack Egypt during the Suez Campaign in 1956, but that was mostly due to the fact that Britain and France were beating up on Egypt to begin with.

However the most notible was the 6 Days War in 1967 when Israel attacked Egypt, Jordan and Syria simultaneously.  The key to that victory was Israel wiped out their airforces on the ground.  On the opposite side of the spectrum one could view this as a preemptive strike since the Arabs had massed troops on Israel\'s borders.

The wheelchair bound terrorist that caught a missle doesn\'t count.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2004, 10:27:39 AM by GigaShadow »
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline Ashford
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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2004, 01:21:51 PM »
Thanks for the history lesson, Giga...

Well, if you\'re talking double standards...

The world is quick to condemn Israel for targetting and killing terrorists but is sympathetic to Palestinians who target and kill civilians...
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

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« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2004, 03:13:04 PM »
Hey I support Israel - I was just answering your question.
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Offline THX
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Is it double standards ?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2004, 05:18:02 PM »
This thread got PWN3D by Giga.

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« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2004, 06:45:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Hey I support Israel - I was just answering your question.


I was thanking you for the info but my next point was directed towards the double standard discussion and not you...

;)
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

 

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