25 Prisoners Died While Held by U.S. Forces

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=13BYVGQBO3TKACRBAELCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=5038799§ion=news

25 Prisoners Died While Held by U.S. Forces
Tue May 4, 2004 04:24 PM ET

By Will Dunham
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Twenty-five prisoners have died while being held by U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan and two of them were murdered in Iraq by Americans, U.S. Army officials said on Tuesday.

An Army official said one soldier was convicted of murder in the U.S. military justice system for shooting a prisoner to death in September 2003 at a detention center in Iraq, and another prisoner was killed at the Abu Ghraib jail near Baghdad in November 2003 by a private contractor who worked as an interrogator for the CIA.

The soldier was reduced in rank to private and thrown out of the service but did not serve any jail time, the official said. The official said the soldier shot the prisoner after the prisoner had thrown rocks at the soldier, and the soldier was found to have used excessive force.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said because the CIA contractor was not in the U.S. military no legal action was taken because of lack of jurisdiction, but Army officials referred the case to the Justice Department for possible action. The official did not offer details of this killing.

The official did not identify the Americans involved in the murders or the victims.. Most of the deaths took place in Iraq.

Word of these investigations came as the Pentagon investigated the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. forces at the Abu Ghraib jail outside Baghdad, which has inflamed anti-American sentiment, especially in the Arab world.

The official said a third death among the 25 being investigated was ruled a justifiable homicide, saying it occurred while a prisoner was attempting to escape.

Of the other 22 death investigations involving prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan, 12 prisoners were found to have died either by natural or undetermined causes and a further 10 deaths were still being investigated. The Army did not say in which countries the 25 killings occurred but said the vast majority were in Iraq not Afghanistan.

In addition, the official said another 10 abuse cases are being investigated, nine involving allegations of assault and one involving allegations of sexual assault.


This ain\'t good at all.

25 killings?

umm how can they go from natural death to "killings" ???

[clips]

this is to be expected..(as far as the investigations are concrened) the abuse of the prisoners in iraq have set off a chain reaction in washington..a few heads will roll..they have to, to send a message,..then like everything else it will die down...in the u.s. at least but it will be awhile in the arab world..and i kinda fear the damage is done already...this has caused the soldiers to be in even more turmoil on the streets of iraq.

combine that with the fact that countries that were down with the coalition are fallin\' off the map,..the initiatives & direction in which the u.s. wanted to take seems far out of reach...

See... this is the sort of stuff people around the world probably hear about, but not us.

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
25 killings?

umm how can they go from natural death to "killings" ???

That is good old Reuters for you.  Substituting words to make a more dramatic anti US story. :rolleyes:

Basically 1 out of those 25 was killed by a soldier - the other by a CIA Spook.  As clips said no surprise here... Our military in general handles themselves with the utmost professionalism, but one or two bad apples will make headlines for weeks.  Amazing.

Im gonna have to agree with giga here, that article is obviously aimed to make it seem as though 25 people were murdered.

Hell 23 of them were probley really really old or sick.

Damn use of the english language to manipulate facts...

Usually because it is suppressed as long as possible or sugar coated for US citizens.

On a slightly similar note...clips, it is about to get even more dangerous for our brave men and women. We were supposed to pull out on the 30th of April. Bush signed into effect our occupation untill at least 2005.

That in itself doesn\'t look good to the Arabs nor the rest of the world. Like we can\'t keep our word. Our intentions may be good for the most part, but we sometimes have a screwed way of projecting that.

I just hope more and more countries dont leave the alliance as more than Spain already has and I hope we dont loose too many more soldiers.

No one said it was going to be easy, but it certainly doesn\'t need to get much harder.

Tsina have you ever heard of the expression... "Don\'t believe everything you read and only half of what you see"?  This story isn\'t being picked up by any of the major networks and it has been out for 6 hours now.  If it was so earth shattering I know Dan Rather would have been all over it.

I believe the expression is "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see"  although i am by no means an expression expert...

Yeah it isnt a big story, the media blows everything out of propotion (liberally and conserivitivly)  

You cant expect this NOT to happen, soilders are human, humans are naturally made like that.

Im telling you this nicely and for the last time. If you want me to do what you ask, follow some common courtesy of not trying to bait nor (for a lack of a better term) f*cking with me.

Yes I have heard that before. I rarely believe anything I read without seeing the same.

Me posting this in no way says that I believe it, or are you to ignorant to figure that out for yourself.

I\'m simply posting something to spark discussion/debate. Once again, if you don\'t like it, keep your mouth shut untill your moderator duties require you to do so.

I\'m not sure how to convey this to you any better, so if you don\'t get it this time, I guess I just have to flat out ignore anything you say to me.

BTW, I\'m not trying to be a bitch now, I\'m just plainly and simply fed up with you. Which is also a shame considering you are one of the older ones in here like myself.

I\'m offering you an olive branch, it is your choice to accept it or not.

Originally posted by Alliswell April 2003
I cant imagine what this war is doing to the men on both sides. I can see in my mind the 19 year old shooting Iraqi soldiers running at him...and having nightmares later on that night. I can see more Timothy McVieghs being made. In the Gulf War, as you all know, Timothy McViegh was there. And when he saw the U.S. policy in Iraq he went mad and decided to wage war against his own government. One guys has already gone crazy and has grenaded his fellow soldiers.

The thing is, this war is ruining humans. They dont have to get hurt to get scarred. My father, who was in Vietnam, had to pick up burnt bodies from airplane crashes, watched several planes blow up (One jet pilot waved to his truck as it rolled down the runway, only to be shot at and blown up at the end of the runway), was shot at, and almost died from a allergic reaction he had to a shot. The results are he got PTSD.....

......He (my father) was just fine before America sent him to "Stop Vietnam from taking over the world"

I dont want to imagine how many children will get a father back who is either a Timothy McVeigh or a PTSD.

I\'ve read Timothy McVeigh\'s letter, and he is nothing more then a man who saw the hypocrisy of the U.S., went crazy, and thought blowing up a Federal building would help his cause. This is the sickos war makes.

Enjoy the new generation

Boy I hate being right all the time.

But once again I am slightly off.  The horrors of war have made them abuse humans as if they were animals,  whether they did it out of intense hate for the enemy or for personal pleasure,  I\'m not sure,  but my point is true and remains.

War is not natural and ruins humans.

Humans are animals, so this occurs in ANY situation someone has power over another person.

Pedophelia, War, Jail, Mental Hospitals, Teachers, Parents.... anyone in a position of power can abuse that power, and it is natural for x% of humans to do so. Why? Because Humans are not anywheres near perfect.

alliswell, well said!!!!!!

I\'d take you out for a drink or two or three or four..etc... if you were local.

Originally posted by TSina
Im telling you this nicely and for the last time. If you want me to do what you ask, follow some common courtesy of not trying to bait nor (for a lack of a better term) f*cking with me.

Yes I have heard that before. I rarely believe anything I read without seeing the same.

Me posting this in no way says that I believe it, or are you to ignorant to figure that out for yourself.

I\'m simply posting something to spark discussion/debate. Once again, if you don\'t like it, keep your mouth shut untill your moderator duties require you to do so.

I\'m not sure how to convey this to you any better, so if you don\'t get it this time, I guess I just have to flat out ignore anything you say to me.

BTW, I\'m not trying to be a bitch now, I\'m just plainly and simply fed up with you. Which is also a shame considering you are one of the older ones in here like myself.

I\'m offering you an olive branch, it is your choice to accept it or not.

Eh?  Aren\'t we in the Current Events and Political Debate forum?  This thread has not strayed off topic like you and Hamster took the pledge topic.  If you can\'t take an opposing view maybe you should not post here?  You have a problem with me debating your point of view?  You are fed up with me?  I will live :rolleyes:

I see no problem with a thread going off topic if someone brings up something else that sparks more interest, especially after posts about the original topic have already been made.

Stop mentioning me please, if you want to lock the pledge thread go ahead, ive said what I wanted to say.

Edit: if you feel the need to respond to this, PM me, lets not have a little bickering war in a thread that can have debates.