Shaq deal close to finish

You just don\'t like the fact the Spurs will smother the Lakers, and wont accept it

The Kings series was completely different from the spurs.

Come one guys I cant keep arguing with these Lakers fans. Where is shockwaves and PSXJ

Originally posted by QuDDus
alert "quote of the week"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know Im right because a lot of ESPN writers see the same:rolleyes:

So you think your opinion is more credibal than ESPN writers?

Originally posted by ViVi
So you think your opinion is more credibal than ESPN writers?

LoL you think your opinion is less credibal because you don\'t write for espn?

Opinions are nothing but other ppls point of view. Working for espn does not make them right or better than you. A lot of those guys have know clue what they are talking about have the time anyways. Writers can get lazy jump on it and take others ideas instead of using their own.

It\'s true you may have a  little more respect for what they say but that it\'s.

You think highly of the spurs you should think more highly of yourself.

First of all, the whole ESPN thing is stupid.  If you want to site the credibility of something someone else says, you have to site who it is.  ESPN is an entertainment sports network, therefor there are people there for both parts.  If it were baseball for example, I wouldn\'t listen to a thing someone like Bill Simmons says, much less use it as something credible.  Peter Gammons however prolly knows more about the game than anyone here.  Doesn\'t make what he says certain, but I\'d trust him over either of you for sure.

As for the Lakers, they make the playoffs.  And that starting roster, or at least how the playing time will look, whether Malone returns or not, will be like this:

C: Divac
PF: Odom
SF: Butler
SG: Kobe
PG: Payton

These are the western playoff teams, as of right now, in my opinion: Spurs, Wolves, Kings, Nuggets, Rockets, Lakers, Grizzlies, and then Mavs/Jazz/Suns compete for the last spot.  The Suns could go either way.  If Nash can get the team involved better, and Amare takes his game to a new level in his 3rd season, this team is good.  Then again, it could also be one of the worst teams in the NBA just adding one extra player.  The Mavs...I wanna see what they do at PG.  I\'d pick them right now as the #8 team, because I think Cuban will go out and get something done.  There are a lot of rumors right now that have him bringing in Vince Carter, which would be interesting.  But who do they put at the PG?  Stackhouse?  We\'ll see.

The Lakers...they are A LOT better than a lot of people are giving them credit for, because everyone seems to be overlooking what they got for Shaq.  Brian Grant...that\'s the one thing I really don\'t understand on their end.  He has a huge contract that goes for a while and is definitely nothing special.  Odom, however, in just one year in Miami became a true impact player.  Let\'s not forget, Miami gave the Pacers a pretty good run for their money last year in the playoffs, and the core of that team minus Wagner is now on the Lakers with Divac, Payton, possibly Malone, and Kobe added to it.  

I also do like the Rudy T hiring.  He is a good coach, and he manages players a lot better than Jackson, a coach I really think is more overrated than any in this era.  Butler I feel is a little overrated, but he could be something.  Whoever feels he makes the starting lineup over Odom is crazy though.  Personally though, after the year Malone had last year, I\'d want him coming off the bench this year, should he be back.  That gives them a very nice bench with Malone and Grant backing up the front court.

Basically, as I see it, the Lakers season hinges on three things.

1. Can Kobe be a team player, or will the fact that he basically runs this team\'s decisions ruin the team chemistry, cause him to not respect what Rudy T tells him, and basically destroy the Lakers chances of being a team?

2. Can Odom build on last season, or will he revert to how he was his last couple years with the Clippers now that he is back in LA.  If there are problems within the team, that is quite possible, and that would kill the Lakers.

3. Can Payton provide solid PG play, or will he continue to deteriorate as he did last year?

If the Lakers can give positive answers to all three of those questions, they are a solid team that might even make it out of the first round.


And yes, the Heat are better than the Lakers right now.  They have a much better shot at a title.  And Shaq\'s big toe alone is worth more than Kobe.

Originally posted by shockwaves

And yes, the Heat are better than the Lakers right now.  They have a much better shot at a title.  And Shaq\'s big toe alone is worth more than Kobe.

The heat right now don\'t have a shot getting past the pistons. Beyond shaq there front court is garbage. They have no bench.
And we all know shaq can\'t be called on in the fourth quater.
He will miss kobe.

And Kobe won\'t miss Shaq?

As for Tony\'s comments, I\'d have to agree with the Caron Butler statement. The man got all of his credibility in the, what was it, 2002 NCAA Tournament with UConn? He\'s not that great, but he could very well be a solid player...but it will depend on if he listens to team president/star Kobe Bryant.

The team itself doesn\'t look bad, but Kobe\'s leadership skills leave something to be desired. Imagine the night where Lamar Odom actually starts shooting the ball, and *gasp* takes more shots than Kobe. That\'s going to be an ugly sight.

As for the Mavs, how can Vince Carter possibly help that team? He won\'t be the focal point of the team, and he\'s not even a true Point Guard. If that Mavs team is going anywhere, Dirk and Steve Finley are going to have to step up their game, and they\'re goona have to find a point guard from SOMEWHERE. I believe the Mavs did get Devin Harris with that Draft Day trade for the #5 pick, did they not? He\'d be suitable at the PG position, but I still think he should have stayed at Wisconsin for another year.

Since the playoffs are pretty easy to make as it is, the Lakers shouldn\'t have a problem making them. What WILL be the problem is when they get wiped up by the Spurs or the Kings in the 1st round.

As for the East, it\'s fairly simple. The Pistons are still the best team in that conference, and of course, the Heat now have a great shot at dethroning them, but they\'ll play seocnd fiddle for the most part. Pacers are most likely goona come in 3rd, but again, have not added enough parts to make a huge leap, unlike the Heat, obviously. What\'s going to interesting is to see how far the Nets drop without K-Mart on the roster. Why they traded him, I have no clue...but in my opinion, that could be a disastrous move.

See Yuz.

Originally posted by ROL Jamas
And Kobe won\'t miss Shaq?

As for Tony\'s comments, I\'d have to agree with the Caron Butler statement. The man got all of his credibility in the, what was it, 2002 NCAA Tournament with UConn? He\'s not that great, but he could very well be a solid player...but it will depend on if he listens to team president/star Kobe Bryant.

The team itself doesn\'t look bad, but Kobe\'s leadership skills leave something to be desired. Imagine the night where Lamar Odom actually starts shooting the ball, and *gasp* takes more shots than Kobe. That\'s going to be an ugly sight.

As for the Mavs, how can Vince Carter possibly help that team? He won\'t be the focal point of the team, and he\'s not even a true Point Guard. If that Mavs team is going anywhere, Dirk and Steve Finley are going to have to step up their game, and they\'re goona have to find a point guard from SOMEWHERE. I believe the Mavs did get Devin Harris with that Draft Day trade for the #5 pick, did they not? He\'d be suitable at the PG position, but I still think he should have stayed at Wisconsin for another year.

Since the playoffs are pretty easy to make as it is, the Lakers shouldn\'t have a problem making them. What WILL be the problem is when they get wiped up by the Spurs or the Kings in the 1st round.

As for the East, it\'s fairly simple. The Pistons are still the best team in that conference, and of course, the Heat now have a great shot at dethroning them, but they\'ll play seocnd fiddle for the most part. Pacers are most likely goona come in 3rd, but again, have not added enough parts to make a huge leap, unlike the Heat, obviously. What\'s going to interesting is to see how far the Nets drop without K-Mart on the roster. Why they traded him, I have no clue...but in my opinion, that could be a disastrous move.

See Yuz.

First of all I will say that a lot you guys are nothing but haters. Kobe will show you all that he can lead and team an win.

Second I am a little confused. You think Vince carter is on the mavs? And the mavs don\'t have steve nash anymore.
The mavs are done. Dirk is a good player but he cannot lead a team. They will never make it to the finals. They had the chance to get shaq and blew it.

The nets traded K-mart because the nuggest offered him a massive contract and the nets did not want to match it. I don\'t think the guy is worth all those millions. What did he get like 98million? The superising thing about the nets is they offered to trade k-mart for boozer once before, but when boozer was a free agent they never went after him. Knowing they did not want to spend a large sum on k-mart.

Originally posted by QuDDus
First of all I will say that a lot you guys are nothing but haters. Kobe will show you all that he can lead and team an win.

There\'s a difference between being a hater and being critical when criticism is due.  I praise more players than I put down by a lot.  But the fact is, Kobe has made LA one of the most chaotic places in the NBA single handedly, and he has shown a pattern of disruptive behavior that has only gotten worse.

Second I am a little confused. You think Vince carter is on the mavs? And the mavs don\'t have steve nash anymore.
The mavs are done. Dirk is a good player but he cannot lead a team. They will never make it to the finals. They had the chance to get shaq and blew it.

Vince Carter is on the Raptors, no one said otherwise.  However, there\'s a lot of talk about him being traded to the Mavs.  We know they don\'t have Nash.  I don\'t think they are out of the playoffs yet though, they have too much talent still.

Originally posted by ROL Jamas
As for the Mavs, how can Vince Carter possibly help that team? He won\'t be the focal point of the team, and he\'s not even a true Point Guard. If that Mavs team is going anywhere, Dirk and Steve Finley are going to have to step up their game, and they\'re goona have to find a point guard from SOMEWHERE. I believe the Mavs did get Devin Harris with that Draft Day trade for the #5 pick, did they not? He\'d be suitable at the PG position, but I still think he should have stayed at Wisconsin for another year.

Truth with Harris, plus they picked up Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference phenom Luis Flores.  I think they\'ll be alright.

And as for how Carter helps...all the rumors have them giving for him is Walker.  Who would you rather have?  Who fits the team better?

Originally posted by QuDDus
The heat right now don\'t have a shot getting past the pistons. Beyond shaq there front court is garbage. They have no bench.
And we all know shaq can\'t be called on in the fourth quater.
He will miss kobe.

Don\'t have a shot?  Please, you have no idea what you\'re talking about if you say that.  Shaq will be better this year in a better situation with a coach who actually knows how to use him.  

And I\'m gonna make a prediction right now.  Shaq not only won\'t miss Kobe, but Wade will be BETTER for him.  With Kobe, everything was about Kobe.  Wade will literally change his game for Shaq if it helps the team, and that is going to be huge.  Add in Eddie Jones bombing it from the outside, including when they need clutch shots (people forget, he did lead this team in scoring), and they more than have a shot.  To say they don\'t is stupid, and makes you look stupid.  Especially this long before the season even gets underway.  You are so clearly and laughably biased that it almost makes me want to discount what you say before reading it if it has to word Pistons in it.

Originally posted by shockwaves
There\'s a difference between being a hater and being critical when criticism is due.  I praise more players than I put down by a lot.  But the fact is, Kobe has made LA one of the most chaotic places in the NBA single handedly, and he has shown a pattern of disruptive behavior that has only gotten worse.




Vince Carter is on the Raptors, no one said otherwise.  However, there\'s a lot of talk about him being traded to the Mavs.  We know they don\'t have Nash.  I don\'t think they are out of the playoffs yet though, they have too much talent still.



Truth with Harris, plus they picked up Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference phenom Luis Flores.  I think they\'ll be alright.

And as for how Carter helps...all the rumors have them giving for him is Walker.  Who would you rather have?  Who fits the team better?



Don\'t have a shot?  Please, you have no idea what you\'re talking about if you say that.  Shaq will be better this year in a better situation with a coach who actually knows how to use him.  

And I\'m gonna make a prediction right now.  Shaq not only won\'t miss Kobe, but Wade will be BETTER for him.  With Kobe, everything was about Kobe.  Wade will literally change his game for Shaq if it helps the team, and that is going to be huge.  Add in Eddie Jones bombing it from the outside, including when they need clutch shots (people forget, he did lead this team in scoring), and they more than have a shot.  To say they don\'t is stupid, and makes you look stupid.  Especially this long before the season even gets underway.  You are so clearly and laughably biased that it almost makes me want to discount what you say before reading it if it has to word Pistons in it.

You have the nerve to call  me bias? The way you spit venom on kobe bryant. It seems like you have a personal grudge against the man. You have no idea what your talking about. Your clueless. You think all the chaos in LA was all kobe. Obviously you have never picked up a magazine or read any interviews because you have no idea how of an ego monster shaq is. And thus no idea what your talking about.

If you read some of the things shaq has said and some of the things other players have said about him. Like Robert horray for example then you would see that it\'s not just kobe. I am not saying kobe does not have an ego. Because I have not seen a superstar player in any sport that does not have an ego. But to put the blame all on kobe shoulders is just wrong.

And if you think the heat are better than the pistons you obviously have no clue what your talking about. It\'s almost comical what your saving. I had to step back from the computer on that one.  The heat right now are not  better than the lakers where last season and that team got killed by the pistons.
The heat have nobody on the team equal to level of greatness as kobe. Shaq cannot be called on in the foruth quater and if you think eddie jones is mr.clutch well your very naive.

And for the record: there are rumors of him wanting to be traded  OMG you think they will let vince go for walker?
Only how I see them getting carter is by adding devin harris to a possible trade. With walker and somebody else. The rapters won\'t let vince go for the likes of walker. OMG

Speaking of comical...let me take this piece by piece here.

Originally posted by QuDDus
You have the nerve to call  me bias? The way you spit venom on kobe bryant. It seems like you have a personal grudge against the man. You have no idea what your talking about. Your clueless. You think all the chaos in LA was all kobe. Obviously you have never picked up a magazine or read any interviews because you have no idea how of an ego monster shaq is. And thus no idea what your talking about.

If you read some of the things shaq has said and some of the things other players have said about him. Like Robert horray for example then you would see that it\'s not just kobe. I am not saying kobe does not have an ego. Because I have not seen a superstar player in any sport that does not have an ego. But to put the blame all on kobe shoulders is just wrong.

First of all, I think it\'s perfectly fair to acknowledge there was a huge problem in LA with the way that team underachieved.  Would you agree that that\'s fair?

You are clearly the one that hasn\'t been reading the articles.  The fact is, the entire team didn\'t like Kobe.  Kobe was the one who always acted "too mature for the other players" while Shaq just acted like a big kid and was fun to be around.  In fact, here\'s a source from your beloved ESPN, that it took me all of 30 seconds to find:

http://espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolumn0407014kobeselfish.html

Kobe was the more hated man amongst his team mates, and look at the differences in what he and Shaq have done after this situation.  Shaq demanded a trade...something many stars do.  Kobe made the Lakers remake the team to his liking.  Their actions alone speak to what they\'ve done.

Let\'s also not forget that Kobe is the one on trial for rape.  You don\'t think that has been a distraction for this team that has really hurt them?  Come on.

And then you have those nights where Kobe plays not to win, but to make a point.  Like that night late in the season where he chose to not take any shots in the game so the Lakers would see how they miss him when he doesn\'t.  Who the hell does that?

And if you think the heat are better than the pistons you obviously have no clue what your talking about. It\'s almost comical what your saving. I had to step back from the computer on that one.  The heat right now are not  better than the lakers where last season and that team got killed by the pistons.
The heat have nobody on the team equal to level of greatness as kobe. Shaq cannot be called on in the foruth quater and if you think eddie jones is mr.clutch well your very naive.

I NEVER said the Heat were better than the Pistons.  Show me where I said that.  I said it was moronic to say they have no chance though.  The Heat certainly have a chance.  And as for Kobe, outside of one shot, what exactly did he do against the Pistons?  Practically nothing.  22 PPG, ok, but on VERY low shooting.  Wagner could duplicate what he did in that series, as could many people in the NBA.  And once again, that team isn\'t about Kobe, it\'s about Shaq.  The only times they did well in the finals were when the kept feeding him the ball and ran things through him, and that will happen more in Miami.  Shaq will be in better shape this year too, if you ask me.  Besides, things change from year to year, so nothing is a guarantee.  Once again, I\'m not saying the Heat are better, but I am saying the idea that they have no chance is moronic and ignorant.

And for the record: there are rumors of him wanting to be traded  OMG you think they will let vince go for walker?
Only how I see them getting carter is by adding devin harris to a possible trade. With walker and somebody else. The rapters won\'t let vince go for the likes of walker. OMG

Once again, try to know what the hell you\'re talking about before making a post.  It would be a three way trade, as the rumors go, not Walker for Carter straight up.  As ESPN said "According to the report, the Mavericks were looking to send Antoine Walker to New York and the Knicks would send a combination of players to the Raptors, with Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo and Kurt Thomas being mentioned. Golden State also was mentioned as a possible participant, with Erick Dampier as the main component".  So try not to post when you have no idea what you\'re talking about next time.

Originally posted by shockwaves
Speaking of comical...let me take this piece by piece here.



First of all, I think it\'s perfectly fair to acknowledge there was a huge problem in LA with the way that team underachieved.  Would you agree that that\'s fair?

You are clearly the one that hasn\'t been reading the articles.  The fact is, the entire team didn\'t like Kobe.  Kobe was the one who always acted "too mature for the other players" while Shaq just acted like a big kid and was fun to be around.  In fact, here\'s a source from your beloved ESPN, that it took me all of 30 seconds to find:

http://espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolumn0407014kobeselfish.html

Kobe was the more hated man amongst his team mates, and look at the differences in what he and Shaq have done after this situation.  Shaq demanded a trade...something many stars do.  Kobe made the Lakers remake the team to his liking.  Their actions alone speak to what they\'ve done.

Let\'s also not forget that Kobe is the one on trial for rape.  You don\'t think that has been a distraction for this team that has really hurt them?  Come on.

And then you have those nights where Kobe plays not to win, but to make a point.  Like that night late in the season where he chose to not take any shots in the game so the Lakers would see how they miss him when he doesn\'t.  Who the hell does that?



I NEVER said the Heat were better than the Pistons.  Show me where I said that.  I said it was moronic to say they have no chance though.  The Heat certainly have a chance.  And as for Kobe, outside of one shot, what exactly did he do against the Pistons?  Practically nothing.  22 PPG, ok, but on VERY low shooting.  Wagner could duplicate what he did in that series, as could many people in the NBA.  And once again, that team isn\'t about Kobe, it\'s about Shaq.  The only times they did well in the finals were when the kept feeding him the ball and ran things through him, and that will happen more in Miami.  Shaq will be in better shape this year too, if you ask me.  Besides, things change from year to year, so nothing is a guarantee.  Once again, I\'m not saying the Heat are better, but I am saying the idea that they have no chance is moronic and ignorant.



Once again, try to know what the hell you\'re talking about before making a post.  It would be a three way trade, as the rumors go, not Walker for Carter straight up.  As ESPN said "According to the report, the Mavericks were looking to send Antoine Walker to New York and the Knicks would send a combination of players to the Raptors, with Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo and Kurt Thomas being mentioned. Golden State also was mentioned as a possible participant, with Erick Dampier as the main component".  So try not to post when you have no idea what you\'re talking about next time.

Originally posted by shockwaves
Speaking of comical...let me take this piece by piece here.



First of all, I think it\'s perfectly fair to acknowledge there was a huge problem in LA with the way that team underachieved.  Would you agree that that\'s fair?

You are clearly the one that hasn\'t been reading the articles.  The fact is, the entire team didn\'t like Kobe.  Kobe was the one who always acted "too mature for the other players" while Shaq just acted like a big kid and was fun to be around.  In fact, here\'s a source from your beloved ESPN, that it took me all of 30 seconds to find:

http://espn.go.com/dickvitale/vcolumn0407014kobeselfish.html

Kobe was the more hated man amongst his team mates, and look at the differences in what he and Shaq have done after this situation.  Shaq demanded a trade...something many stars do.  Kobe made the Lakers remake the team to his liking.  Their actions alone speak to what they\'ve done.


Let\'s also not forget that Kobe is the one on trial for rape.  You don\'t think that has been a distraction for this team that has really hurt them?  Come on.

What are you trying to prove with this? That dick vital does not like kobe? Well you should go even farther back and pick up espn the magazine the may issue I believe. In this magazine you will find an interview where shaq speaks on how he should get the ball all time. And how every time he runs up and down the court he should get the ball. And that lakers are his team. Go find that and read that article and then come back and tell me how much of a saint  your precious shaq is. He is clearly has huge ego and if you don\'t think so you are naive and really don\'t have a clue.

Second we all know payton hated the triangle. To say all kobe\'s teammates hated him is truly false. I mean how can you back that up by saying the man\'s entire team hated him. And if malone hated him he would not be thinking of coming back to play with kobe next season. I understand  you feel shaq is such a big brother and loveable guy to you. And he would make an awesome big brother for you.  But don\'t make false statements about kobe bryant when you clearly cannot give actually proof of none of it. It kind of seem like you were running off emotions.

And then you have those nights where Kobe plays not to win, but to make a point.  Like that night late in the season where he chose to not take any shots in the game so the Lakers would see how they miss him when he doesn\'t.  Who the hell does that?

The man was drawing double teams an passing the ball to his teammates. Instead of forcing shots. OMG if the guy takes to many shots he is this. If tries to play more into the team he that.

I NEVER said the Heat were better than the Pistons.  Show me where I said that.  I said it was moronic to say they have no chance though.  The Heat certainly have a chance.  And as for Kobe, outside of one shot, what exactly did he do against the Pistons?  Practically nothing.  22 PPG, ok, but on VERY low shooting.  Wagner could duplicate what he did in that series, as could many people in the NBA.  And once again, that team isn\'t about Kobe, it\'s about Shaq.  The only times they did well in the finals were when the kept feeding him the ball and ran things through him, and that will happen more in Miami.  Shaq will be in better shape this year too, if you ask me.  Besides, things change from year to year, so nothing is a guarantee.  Once again, I\'m not saying the Heat are better, but I am saying the idea that they have no chance is moronic and ignorant.

If you think wayde is as good as kobe just shut up now. You have no idea what your talking about. And you are a novice if your going to  talk like that. Kobe is the best all alround player in the NBA right now. The guy is awesome. He is a superstar and not many guys can even come close to doing what he does. To even suggest that wayde will fill his void is just childish.

Once again, try to know what the hell you\'re talking about before making a post.  It would be a three way trade, as the rumors go, not Walker for Carter straight up.  As ESPN said "According to the report, the Mavericks were looking to send Antoine Walker to New York and the Knicks would send a combination of players to the Raptors, with Shandon Anderson, Dikembe Mutombo and Kurt Thomas being mentioned. Golden State also was mentioned as a possible participant, with Erick Dampier as the main component".  So try not to post when you have no idea what you\'re talking about next time. [/B]

Colm down buddy ok. And from what I read carter wants to goto Newyork. I don\'t think he is going anywhere and I don\'t think the raptures should trade him.


P.S. "beloved ESPN"
Thats vivi not me

Sixers>Lakers

Originally posted by QuDDus
What are you trying to prove with this? That dick vital does not like kobe? Well you should go even farther back and pick up espn the magazine the may issue I believe. In this magazine you will find an interview where shaq speaks on how he should get the ball all time. And how every time he runs up and down the court he should get the ball. And that lakers are his team. Go find that and read that article and then come back and tell me how much of a saint  your precious shaq is. He is clearly has huge ego and if you don\'t think so you are naive and really don\'t have a clue.

Stop putting works in my mouth.  I never said Shaq was a saint.  I said he\'s not destructive to his team, and I said Kobe is worse.  The fact is, nearly everything Shaq says to the media is sarcastic.  If Shaq really had such a big ego, how do you explain how even when it is clear they don\'t like eachother, Shaq rallies behind Kobe every spring to bring the team more together so they can make their run?  He is always saying that Kobe is the best playing in the league and things like that in the Spring, during playoff time.  If he really had such a monsterous ego, he would never say that about someone else on his team, especially someone he\'s been fighting with.

And the other thing...about those comments you said he made...about half the basketball analysts out there, at least, would agree with all of that.

Second we all know payton hated the triangle. To say all kobe\'s teammates hated him is truly false. I mean how can you back that up by saying the man\'s entire team hated him. And if malone hated him he would not be thinking of coming back to play with kobe next season.

They did a story on it during the playoffs this year.  Look it up.  Kobe was hated in the locker room.  And as for the Malone thing, many players play with guys they hate if it means a better shot at winning, which Malone may think it does.

I understand  you feel shaq is such a big brother and loveable guy to you. And he would make an awesome big brother for you.  But don\'t make false statements about kobe bryant when you clearly cannot give actually proof of none of it. It kind of seem like you were running off emotions.

First of all, the personal attacks aren\'t needed.  In fact, I once again never even said anything of how good Shaq was or wasn\'t as a person.

Second of all, Kobe.  We can both agree he openly didn\'t get along with Jackson or follow what he said.  That was public, much publicised, and clear.  If you really need proof on that, I can find it, but I won\'t waste my time now.  

As for not having a good relationship with the other players, Kobe has repeatedly said that he has had problems with the other players and their relationships with him.  As ESPN Insider put it earlier in the season, "A source close to Bryant told Insider that Kobe has been dismayed by a perceived lack of support from his teammates and coach Phil Jackson."  He was also very openly criticised by several team mates after that game when he refused to shoot, and never really regained much respect from that point, as the criticism continued bit by bit.  Just do a search on it, and it\'s easy to find.  As Yahoo sports put it, "Bryant was criticized by Jackson and several teammates recently for his shot selection in losses to San Antonio and Portland, when he went a combined 14-of-49.

Then came the game in Sacramento, when Bryant shot once in the first half as the Lakers fell behind by 19 points. His finished with eight points on 3-of-13 shooting -- his lowest point total in a game when he played at least 40 minutes.

Local media questioned whether Bryant, the league\'s fourth-leading scorer, was sending a message to Jackson and his teammates by not playing his normal game.

One unidentified player even told The Los Angeles Times that the team might never forgive Bryant"

Are you honestly trying to tell me that A) That\'s not disruptive, and Shaq was worse than that?

And this, once again, isn\'t even taking into consideration the whole rape thing, which was the biggest distraction of the season.

The man was drawing double teams an passing the ball to his teammates. Instead of forcing shots. OMG if the guy takes to many shots he is this. If tries to play more into the team he that.

If you think he didn\'t do that with an agenda, you\'re the naive one.  How do you explain that the night after, he took 10 shots in the first quarter alone?  It was all about sending a message during a time when he was already being criticised, and it backfired.

If you think wayde is as good as kobe just shut up now. You have no idea what your talking about. And you are a novice if your going to  talk like that. Kobe is the best all alround player in the NBA right now. The guy is awesome. He is a superstar and not many guys can even come close to doing what he does. To even suggest that wayde will fill his void is just childish.

Of course I don\'t think Wade is as good as Kobe.  I never said that.  I did however say that Wade could duplicate Bryants numbers in the finals, which weren\'t that great.  I also said that Wade\'s game will be a lot better for Shaq than Bryants.  The offense on whatever team Shaq is on SHOULD run through him.  Kobe never wanted it to, but Wade will be happy to run things that way.

As for being a "novice", I guarantee I know more about the NBA than you do, so don\'t even try going that route.
 

Colm down buddy ok. And from what I read carter wants to goto Newyork. I don\'t think he is going anywhere and I don\'t think the raptures should trade him.

Sorry, but when you respond to my saying that the rumor exists with two "OMG"\'s in a single paragraph, saying that that couldn\'t be, I have to respond some how

P.S. "beloved ESPN"
Thats vivi not me [/B]

You\'re right, my fault.

Originally posted by shockwaves
Stop putting works in my mouth.  I never said Shaq was a saint.  I said he\'s not destructive to his team, and I said Kobe is worse.  The fact is, nearly everything Shaq says to the media is sarcastic.  If Shaq really had such a big ego, how do you explain how even when it is clear they don\'t like eachother, Shaq rallies behind Kobe every spring to bring the team more together so they can make their run?  He is always saying that Kobe is the best playing in the league and things like that in the Spring, during playoff time.  If he really had such a monsterous ego, he would never say that about someone else on his team, especially someone he\'s been fighting with.

And the other thing...about those comments you said he made...about half the basketball analysts out there, at least, would agree with all of that.



They did a story on it during the playoffs this year.  Look it up.  Kobe was hated in the locker room.  And as for the Malone thing, many players play with guys they hate if it means a better shot at winning, which Malone may think it does.

You really don\'t believe shaq has an ego? I mean kobe is great talent. One of the best to play the game. And shaq feels that he can\'t run up and down the court without having the ball. The guy wants the ball all the time. Even if other guys are shooting he gets mad. Because he feels like the lakers should give him the ball everytime he comes down court. Read the interview. The guy is going on 32 bad toe and out of shape. And still thinks everything should evolve around him. And Malone can go any where he wants. If malone hated kobe trust me he would not be going back to LA buddy trust me on that. The guy is a real hardass.

All of these guys have ego. Too say shaq does not have one is just crazy. Kareem had problem letting magic step in a be the next star in LA. Because kareem did not have to have his ego fed to make him feel like he is still the man. I know kobe has an ego but all these guy do from tracy-iverson and shaq is no different. It\'s funny how when shaq makes demans or says things it\'s just him be sarcastic. "Pay me or trade me"
"I don\'t wanna play without phil"  "thi is my team"

I am not saying shaq is not great but the guy is not what he use to be. He will be 33. He is fat/out of shap. We all know the big toe can give out at any second. I mean  just read some of the things he says. He thinks that lakers should focus souly on him and him only.  It would have been a shame if kareem would have acted the same way towards magic.

First of all, the personal attacks aren\'t needed.  In fact, I once again never even said anything of how good Shaq was or wasn\'t as a person.

Second of all, Kobe.  We can both agree he openly didn\'t get along with Jackson or follow what he said.  That was public, much publicised, and clear.  If you really need proof on that, I can find it, but I won\'t waste my time now.  

As for not having a good relationship with the other players, Kobe has repeatedly said that he has had problems with the other players and their relationships with him.  As ESPN Insider put it earlier in the season, "A source close to Bryant told Insider that Kobe has been dismayed by a perceived lack of support from his teammates and coach Phil Jackson."  He was also very openly criticised by several team mates after that game when he refused to shoot, and never really regained much respect from that point, as the criticism continued bit by bit.  Just do a search on it, and it\'s easy to find.  As Yahoo sports put it, "Bryant was criticized by Jackson and several teammates recently for his shot selection in losses to San Antonio and Portland, when he went a combined 14-of-49.

I wasn\'t trying to personally attact you. If it came off that way excuse me. Kobe is not the first guy to not get along with his coach. And he won\'t be the last. Malone has given kobe much credit and praised the kid. I find it very hard to feel he hates him. Second malone can go anywhere he would not even consider LA if he hated kobe. Second I find it very hard to feel payton hated kobe. Payton hated the triangle which was made just for shaq.

I do believe they may have been upset with eachother. But hate from anyone other than shaq is hardly believable. Any all teammates have disagreements

"He was also very openly criticised by several team mates"

While this is nothing but media bullshit. Several temmates that very funny. There are not seven guys are that team credible enough to even consider it. Plus I know he has a great relationship with rush and george.

Then came the game in Sacramento, when Bryant shot once in the first half as the Lakers fell behind by 19 points. His finished with eight points on 3-of-13 shooting -- his lowest point total in a game when he played at least 40 minutes.

Local media questioned whether Bryant, the league\'s fourth-leading scorer, was sending a message to Jackson and his teammates by not playing his normal game.

One unidentified player even told The Los Angeles Times that the team might never forgive Bryant"

Are you honestly trying to tell me that A) That\'s not disruptive, and Shaq was worse than that?

And this, once again, isn\'t even taking into consideration the whole rape thing, which was the biggest distraction of the season.

 "the team might never forgive Bryant"
Lol come on shocky more media b.s. I mean do you honestly think any of this has any merit. And like stated by so many other people. It is very hard to believe that kobe would even do something like this.

If you think he didn\'t do that with an agenda, you\'re the naive one.  How do you explain that the night after, he took 10 shots in the first quarter alone?  It was all about sending a message during a time when he was already being criticised, and it backfired.

ok if you look at the game the kings were sending 2-3 guys at kobe everytime he got the ball. He was passing the ball to open guys. Who were missing shots/3\'s. And the lakers defense was a little to be desired. But it makes better media to blame it all on kobe.

Of course I don\'t think Wade is as good as Kobe.  I never said that.  I did however say that Wade could duplicate Bryants numbers in the finals, which weren\'t that great.  I also said that Wade\'s game will be a lot better for Shaq than Bryants.  The offense on whatever team Shaq is on SHOULD run through him.  Kobe never wanted it to, but Wade will be happy to run things that way.

Wayde will never be able to duplicate what kobe did in the same situations because wayde is not a good. Why can\'t two great players play within the offense. How good would michael jordan be if he had to play second fiddle to shaq? I mean you tell me why the offense can\'t run through shaq and kobe. Why does it has to be just shaq? Kobe is the best all around player in the league. He is a superstar why can\'t the offense run through both guys?

As for being a "novice", I guarantee I know more about the NBA than you do, so don\'t even try going that route.

Very comical. I needed a laugh. But I am old school nba. I prefer the vintage stuff which I got tons of films of. I have seen games played by all the best. Your what 18 you are probably what the 90\'s era of nba;)
 

Sorry, but when you respond to my saying that the rumor exists with two "OMG"\'s in a single paragraph, saying that that couldn\'t be, I have to respond some how

No problem.

Originally posted by QuDDus
You really don\'t believe shaq has an ego? I mean kobe is great talent. One of the best to play the game. And shaq feels that he can\'t run up and down the court without having the ball. The guy wants the ball all the time. Even if other guys are shooting he gets made. Because he feels like the lakers should give him the ball everytime he comes down court. Read the interview. The guy is going on 32 bad toe and out of shape. And still thinks everything should evolve around him. And Malone can go any where he wants. If malone hated kobe trust me he would not be going back to LA buddy trust me on that. The guy is a real hardass.

All of these guys have ego. Too say shaq does not have one is just crazy. Kareem had problem letting magic step in a be the next star in LA. Because kareem did not have to have his ego fed to make him feel like he is still the man. I know kobe has an ego but all these guy do from tracy-iverson and shaq is no different. It\'s funny how when shaq makes demans or says things it\'s just him be sarcastic. "Pay me or trade me"
"I don\'t wanna play without phil"  "thi is my team"

Alright, I\'m goona take this piece by piece. First off...

Did he EVER say that Shaq DID NOT have an Ego? Nope, I never saw that, I\'m not quite sure where you saw that, bud. Again, he stated that "Shaq is in no way a Saint, but he\'s not as bad as Kobe." I for one do NOT see how that implies that Shaq does not in fact have an Ego. Also, we\'re all very aware that Kobe is a great talent, that\'s not being disputed here. What you\'re trying to imply is that Shaq always wanted the ball and that everything should revolve around him. YES! It\'s called "Good basketball!" When you have the most dominating force in the game, you should give him the ball! The logic, man, think of the logic here. When you have the most dominating force in the game, when given his touches, puts up a double double easily every night and can almost never be stopped due to the amount of calls he gets, why WOULDN\'T you give him the ball? This isn\'t Shaq being selfish, this is Shaq being basketball-smart! Kobe doesn\'t want to GIVE Shaq the ball, and would rather take 25 to 30 perimiter shots a game. That\'s not just throwing random stuff out there, he did it during the finals. Kobe thought he could take over the games against the Pistons, but their good defense prevented him from getting any good looks. When Shaq was actually fed the basketball, he was tremendously hard to stop. Shaq, one on one against Anybody, is a mismatch.

Guess What? Malone DOESN\'T want to play in LA. Hell, he\'d probably retire before playing for the Lakers again. There\'s been talk about him going to follow Shaq to the Heat, so again, you\'re just throwing stuff out there. Payton isn\'t staying in LA becuase of Kobe. He\'s staying in LA because he\'s due to make 5 million dollars for playing like a washed up bench player.

Again, Tony didn\'t say that Shaq didn\'t have an Ego. Lets put that to rest right now. I don\'t know where you got it, or why you keep implying that shockwaves said that Shaq didn\'t have an ego, because he never, EVER said that. Stop implying it.

Now to the second part...

Originally posted by QuDDus
I am not saying shaq is not great but the guy is not what he use to be. He will be 33. He is fat/out of shap. We all know the big toe can give out at any second. I mean  just read some of the things he says. He thinks that lakers should focus souly on him and him only.  It would have been a shame if kareem would have acted the same way towards magic.

Yes, Shaq isn\'t what he used to be. Fine. He\'s still the most dominating force in the game. Sure, he may almost be 33 and the Knee might be a bit of a problem, but in no way is he out of shape. Do you expect a man who is 7\'1 350 pounds to run on the court every night and come back the next night as fresh as he was the night before, and do that through the entire season? That\'s incredibly unrealistic. I alread addressed the fact about the offese revolving around Shaq. No need to beat a dead horse.

Originally posted by QuDDus
I wasn\'t trying to personally attact you. If it came off that way excuse me. Kobe is not the first guy to not get along with his coach. And he won\'t be the last. Malone has give kobe much credit and praised the kid. I find it very hard to feel he hates him. Second malone can go anywhere would not even consider LA if he hated kobe. Second I find it very hard to feel payton hated kobe. Payton hated the triangle which was made just for shaq.

I do believe they may have been upset with eachother. But hate from anyone other than shaq is hardly believable.

Yes, Kobe is not the first guy to get along with his coach. But to use his former coach as a clutch for the team to accept being resigned is pretty pathetic in my book. He got a coach who has won 9 NBA Titles out on the streets, and if they didn\'t put him out there, he wasn\'t goona come back. If they didn\'t get rid of Shaq, he wasn\'t goona come back. No one man should have that much power.

Yes, Malone praises the kid. Good for him. You know who else praised the kid? SHAQ! Wow! Kobe\'s a talent, we know this! Yeah, but you know what else he is? A superstar with aging talent around him. That team is going nowhere without Shaq. Sorry. I really don\'t know why you keep bringing Karl Malone up, it doesn\'t make much sense. Kobe has other teammates, too. How about Derek Fisher? Left for the Golden State Warriors. Gary Payton\'s coming back because he\'s getting paid 5 million dollars to do nothing next year. Shaq\'s already gone. His coach is gone, and he got the last two to leave.

Originally posted by QuDDus
"He was also very openly criticised by several team mates"

While this is nothing but media bullshit. Several temmates that very funny. There are not seven guys are that team credible enough to even consider it. Plus I know he has a great relationship with rush and george.

"the team might never forgive Bryant"
Lol come on shocky more media b.s. I mean do you honestly think any of this has any merit. And like stated by so many other people. It is very hard to believe that kobe would even do something like this.

ok if you look at the game the kings were sending 2-3 guys at kobe everytime he got the ball. He was passing the ball to open guys. Who were missing shots/3\'s. And the lakers defense was a little to be desired. But it makes better media to blame it all on kobe.

Well, as long as everything the Media says after countless interviews and practice sessions is uncredible. You know, right, because you were there when the interviews took place, right? Please. Your random assumptions are unwarranted and flat out wrong. How can you just call that "Media B.S."? Give me some proof. That\'s all I ask. Give me some proof. How IS is hard to believe that Kobe threw another one of his temper tantrums and didn\'t shoot the ball on purpose? Prove me otherwise.

Oh Boy, he had a great relationship with a rookie on the team from Missouri, and Devon George, who sits on the bench. You gave me two players. There are 12 players on a team, and if only 2 of them had good relationships, as you say, with Kobe, then he probably has a bit of a problem. Why would players  come forward and state that they have a real problem with Kobe during the season? Why would they want to ruin the team chemistry during the middle of the playoff run? That makes ZERO sense. Did Shaq ever knock Kobe during the season? No, he called him one of the best players he\'d ever played with. It\'s in one of his many interviews that you keep talking about. Look it up.

Originally posted by QuDDus
Wayde will never be able to duplicate what kobe did in the same situations because wayde is not a good. Why can\'t two great players play within the offense. How good would michael jordan be if he had to play second fiddle to shaq? I mean you tell me why the offense can\'t run through shaq and kobe. Why does it has to be just shaq? Kobe is the best all around player in the league. He is a superstar why can\'t the offense run through both guys?

And again, Tony never said that Wade was as good as Kobe. He said he will be able to duplicate his numbers because Wade has no problems with giving Shaq the ball, unlike the problems that Kobe had with it. Second, the Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan comparison is weak. You look up any of their stats on a season-by-season comparison, and Jordan dwarfs Kobe. Don\'t act like it wasn\'t a comparison -- simply by bringing Jordan up in that context is a comparison.

Why can\'t the offense run through both guys? Because BOTH of them wouldn\'t want that! Would Kobe OR Shaq want it to run through both of them? Not with either of their ego\'s. Simply by splitting it, Kobe would complain and basically, and all of the chaos that has happened now would happen. They were basically splitting the ball anyway, what with Kobe taking the amount of shots that he was. Not really sure why you even brought up the question of why the offense should run through both of them, because basically, it did, and neither of them liked it at all.

Originally posted by QuDDus
Very comical. I needed a laugh. But I am old school nba. I prefer the vintage stuff which I got tons of films of. I have seen games played by all the best. Your what 18 you are probably what the 90\'s era of nba;)

And you end with another personal attack, apparently because being 18 years old doesn\'t make you knowledgible of anything whatsoever. Just because we\'re not "Vintage" like you, or you claim to be anyways, what makes you think that we\'ve never seen the "Old School" players? Are you that ignorant?

See Yuz.