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Author Topic: September NPD  (Read 14379 times)

Offline Unicron!
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September NPD
« Reply #90 on: October 24, 2004, 09:32:35 AM »
XBOX=new in the industry.
Playstation=huge popularity
Nintendo=known since only god knows when, yet has less sales than XBOX.

Offline Ginko
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September NPD
« Reply #91 on: October 24, 2004, 09:48:39 AM »
Quote
originally posted by mm
your still not saying anything

asking me why i think it\'s not ok for a console to only sell 15 million is rediculous.


You still haven\'t said anything.  I can\'t make an arguement if there\'s nothing to disprove.

You\'d have to make a case proving that 15 million consoles for the specific case of the Xbox is a bad thing, otherwise there\'s nothing to argue.  It\'s just you talking shit again.

Oh, and what was that you were saying about Halo?  Still haven\'t heard anything from you.

Quote
originally posted by Lord Nicon
The point on the console debate is that xbox is expectedly outselling the ps2, more or less over a few months because of the fact that so many more people have ps2\'s. The selling rate is bound to slow.


Read back a few posts, I\'ve already stated this is more about the Xbox gaining momentum than anything.  

Quote
Too little too late? Yeah, as in the xbox doesnt look like it will match the ps2\'s # of installation for a long time if it does at all. I dont see why this is so hard to understand.


Nobody ever said that Xbox would outsell PS2\'s total units.  I\'ve already said this and I don\'t see why that\'s so hard to understand?

Xbox will never reach 70 million units.  It\'s not possible.  The Xbox is the ground work, MS has said this repeatedly.  That\'s why "too little, too late" doesn\'t make any sense.  The Xbox has established itself, with a userbase and a healthy amount of developer support, and has set up MS for next gen.

^Why is that hard to comprehend?  

Quote
The xbox has been out 3 years you say? The ps2 has been out for about 4 yet the numbers are almost double that of xboxes sold. Sure this is microsofts first outing but the fact of the matter is that the xbox just isnt making any large competative strides when you look at the big picture. So the xbox sold more in a few months. This says very little and i dont know why anybody makes such a deal out of it. If this trend of sales continued for a year i still dont think it would have caught up so its a pointless argument.


The PS2 is the successor the best selling console in history.  Did anyone expect MS to take over in 3 years time?  Are you out of your mind?

I think it\'s you who\'s failing to see the bigger picture.  It is MS\'s first outting and to say they haven\'t made any progress is near sighted.  The fact that the console has managed to keep steady sales and garner more developer support since release proves MS has made strides.  

Quote
As for the argument of the ps selling so much more - It was out for double the amount of time the ps2 has. Perhaps thats why its installation numbers are so high hmm?


Missed the point again, huh?  There are still 30 million potential buyers plus the industry is still growing.  Right now the U.S. market is split between Xbox and PS2.

Quote
Really, this whole thing is just stupid.


Don\'t like it then don\'t read it.  If you\'re going to make an arguement then the least you could do is try to keep up.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 09:54:11 AM by Ginko »

Offline mm
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September NPD
« Reply #92 on: October 24, 2004, 09:57:04 AM »
xbox is hardly "new" to the industry

which doesn\'t even attempt to explain it\'s lethargic (pathetic) sales

yeah, the split is like 80/20
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline Unicron!
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September NPD
« Reply #93 on: October 24, 2004, 09:57:59 AM »
If you are talking about its hardware then you miss the point once again

edit:what explains GCs "pathetic" sales I wonder
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 10:00:32 AM by Unicron! »

Offline mm
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September NPD
« Reply #94 on: October 24, 2004, 09:58:34 AM »
perhaps if you ever made a point
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline Ginko
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September NPD
« Reply #95 on: October 24, 2004, 10:00:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
xbox is hardly "new" to the industry


Really?

Nintendo = 20 years in the console industry
Sony = 10 years in the console industry
Microsoft = 3 years in the console industry

Now what?:p

Offline Unicron!
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September NPD
« Reply #96 on: October 24, 2004, 10:03:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
perhaps if you ever made a point


When I say new I mean another competitive product.A new brand.A new name in the industry.

THERE.

If the hardware is new or NOT means nothing (XBOX sales > GC sales)

Offline mm
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September NPD
« Reply #97 on: October 24, 2004, 10:04:47 AM »
still not new, not even close

please try again

got some proof that xbox > GC still
this isnt 2003 anymore, ya know
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline Unicron!
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September NPD
« Reply #98 on: October 24, 2004, 10:06:24 AM »
God!!its like talking to a wall!!

Offline Ginko
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September NPD
« Reply #99 on: October 24, 2004, 10:16:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
still not new, not even close

please try again

got some proof that xbox > GC still
this isnt 2003 anymore, ya know


Not new to the industry?  A new console going up against established console companies...what\'s there to argue?

Well, I\'m not sure what proof you\'re aksing for.  The sales numbers are at the beginning of this thread.  GC is getting outsold 2:1 by both PS2 and Xbox.

EDIT: Found this for you...

As of June 2004
Xbox = 15.5 Million Worldwide
Gamecube = 15.22 Million Worldwide
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 10:19:48 AM by Ginko »

Offline Lord Nicon
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September NPD
« Reply #100 on: October 24, 2004, 10:27:59 AM »
Ginko, you never stated that this is ALL about the the xbox gaining momentum. Mentioned it yes. Ive read what youve said. Nothing is too hard to comprehend. Your point was unclear. Everybody makes this sales thing look like some big stride.

You said:

"The PS2 is the successor the best selling console in history. Did anyone expect MS to take over in 3 years time? Are you out of your mind?"
"Not new to the industry? A new console going up against established console companies...what\'s there to argue?"

Out of my mind? Not at all. You proved a point (more or less). Playstation came up against 2 VERY established companies (both being around for not one but two generations before it) and despite coming out in between the two, still dominated, easily. This whole, new to the industry argument holds no water when playstation did this exactly.

Quote
Don\'t like it then don\'t read it. If you\'re going to make an arguement then the least you could do is try to keep up.

Kept up. And if this was the case then we would have no debates. I was just stating that its a semi silly argument from the perspective i had. Im not posting against my will. All this "dont like it dont read it" crap can go somewhere where it actually means something.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 10:29:55 AM by Lord Nicon »
Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
I don\'t have comprehension issues, you just need to learn how to communicate.
Yessir massir ima f*** you up reeeeal nice and homely like. uh huh, yessum ; ).
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Offline mm
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September NPD
« Reply #101 on: October 24, 2004, 10:34:28 AM »
the difference between 15.2 and 15.5 is hardly worth even mentioning

would like to see current numbers, however

and nicon, dont try and use rational thought on these guys.  it doesnt work
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline Ginko
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September NPD
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2004, 10:57:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Lord Nicon
Ginko, you never stated that this is ALL about the the xbox gaining momentum. Mentioned it yes. Ive read what youve said. Nothing is too hard to comprehend. Your point was unclear. Everybody makes this sales thing look like some big stride.


"The Xbox has been on an uprise since release. More developers have signed on since release and the console has steady sales figures. It\'s certainly not tanking so what else could I say than it\'s gaining momentum?"

What\'s unclear about that?
 
Quote

You said:

"The PS2 is the successor the best selling console in history. Did anyone expect MS to take over in 3 years time? Are you out of your mind?"
"Not new to the industry? A new console going up against established console companies...what\'s there to argue?"

Out of my mind? Not at all. You proved a point. Playstation came up against 2 VERY established companies (both being around for not one but two generations before it) and despite coming out in between the two, still dominated, easily. This whole, new to the industry argument holds no water when playstation did this exactly.


Geez, let\'s jump back into the last three years worth of console debate...where have you been?  I\'ll get you up to speed.

Sony VS. Nintendo VS. Sega

Sony and Sega both released their 32-bit consoles, in Japan, in 1994.  The U.S. later received both of these consoles in 1995.

Sega had previously released several add-ons for the Genesis that amounted to failures that would make any consumer cautious of future purchases, as well as developers.  Add to that the Saturn was meant to be the ultimate 2D machine and it wasn\'t until Sega found out what Sony was planning when they decided to modify the Saturn to do 3D.  The architecture of the Saturn was a nightmare for developers, not to mention the lauch price of the Saturn was $400 compared to the Playstation\'s $300.  A lackluster lineup of launch games and poor developer support didn\'t look good.

Sony released the Playstation.  The architecture was simple meaning developers could make the most out of their time and resources, plus it was on a cheap media, the cd.  3rd parties jumped on board.  Games became "cool" and the rest is history.

Nintendo released the N64 in 1996.  The format was cartridge, an expensive medium, making the Playstation a more attractive choice for develoers.  Plus the N64 was more difficult to program for than the PS and Nintendo\'s stance on quality drove some developers away. The launch of the N64, and thereafter, consisted of very few games and much less 3rd party support than the Playstation.
 
What you have is two established companies making huge errors in judgement that cost them consumer confidence and developer support.  Sony made some very good moves and mostly they were in the right place at the right time.  They benefitted very largely from Nintendo and Sega\'s mistakes.  

Fast forward to today.  Sony hasn\'t made any mistakes to cost them developers or customers.  The architecture of the PS2 might not be the most friendly but consumers don\'t care so the developers just have to make due.   The transition from PS to PS2 is a no brainer for the consumer and the developer.

Nintendo entered this generation with a less than desirable image and they are trying to win back both developers and consumers.  They\'ve lost several developers during this generation.  

Microsoft enters in under Sony.  The fact that they\'ve been able to get the amount of support they have today is amazing.  Their developer support has grown since release and the console is still garnering steady sales with occasional spikes.  It\'s worth mentioning that the huge market of Japan is flat out ignoring Xbox.  They will never accept an American made console.  All this while Sony is sprinting ahead and Nintendo is trying to make their comeback.

You are very much mistaken to say that MS entered under the same circumstances as Sony did almost 10 years ago.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 11:21:16 AM by Ginko »

Offline Ginko
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September NPD
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2004, 11:00:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
the difference between 15.2 and 15.5 is hardly worth even mentioning

would like to see current numbers, however

and nicon, dont try and use rational thought on these guys.  it doesnt work


You asked for proof and I gave it to you.  Currently, the Xbox is outselling the GC 2:1 in the U.S.  What more proof do you need?

Quote
and nicon, dont try and use rational thought on these guys. it doesnt work


This coming from someone who rarely makes a point, an attempt at rational discussion, and always dodges the question.:rolleyes:
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 11:19:42 AM by Ginko »

Offline Lord Nicon
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September NPD
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2004, 11:49:25 AM »
Yes unclear as to you making momentum your main argument. I said it was mentioned. One statement doesnt solidify the point of both past and present arguments. Jesus. The point is taken lets move on now.

The ps2 had a shortage and from what many said a semi poor set of launch games besides a few pretty good ones. Nothing that was supposed to be a killer app like the rumored GT2000, etc. The graphics were debatably better or worse than the already released dreamcast, and dev complaints as well as rumors of ps2\'s in superiority due to bottlenecks and 4megs of vram was always a common issue. Of course the only thing it really had going for it besides a few good games was its hype.

The hype on dolphin and xbox were nothing to laugh about with all the tech demos and rumored specs that were so much greater than the ps2\'s. Not to mention the xbox could do everything the ps2 could plus more except for backwards compatibility. The numbers far outclassed that of ps2\'s. Not to mention th fact that its pc architecture allowed plenty of pc devs to jump on the boat.

The 64, had all sorts of hype going for it as well, not to mention that all of its previous consoles were highly regarded. 2 generations to be exact, when this time around, sony had one console under its belt (i admit a very good one but still one gen). Not only did the system boast double the power supposedly, it also had zero load times etc (and by this time everybody was far too aware of this issue with cd rom systems). The casual gaming population made little fuss about the pricing and the fact that the games were cartridges because there were so many pluses and damaging one was so much more difficult.

Often we forget how huge of a percentage the casual gaming population makes. We\'ve seen some crappy games go up on the top 20 sales list and this is all due to misinformed casual gamers. All this tech and specifics bull could barely matter any less to these people.

Sure ms didnt have the same set of advantages, etc. but the same advantages arent always needed. I cant remember a single launch game that looked anywhere below the level of ps2\'s middle tier games. There were many selling factors so dont make it out to be a case where xbox was going to sell this way from the get go. Lets not even talk about ps2\'s not so wonderful e3 outing a couple years back. Microsoft had plenty of opportunities to make for better sales.

And they are gaining some foothold in the Japanese market. Of course Japan was never the main money maker. We were talking about american numbers previously and despite Japanese sales, the american numbers of the ps2 etc. are still outclassing. Yes there are reasons behind this, but you make it out to seem like this is better than microsoft could have ever done and under these circumstances its doing so incredibly well.

I beg to differ.

Then again, opinions are opinions and there are really no flat facts that disprove one argument or the other. This is just how i see things.

;)
Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
I don\'t have comprehension issues, you just need to learn how to communicate.
Yessir massir ima f*** you up reeeeal nice and homely like. uh huh, yessum ; ).
Debra Lafave Is My Hero ;) lol

 

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