California School Bans Declaration of Independence

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
He should be able to pass out any historical documents that are relevant to the states required teaching.

That being said, the pledge should be banned from all public schools. Either that or there should be more then one read a day, one for god, one for other faiths, and one for atheists.

Or the people in charge can stop being stupid and just take the 2 words out....

More than one read a day? The hell? One for athiests? What are you talking about?

Im not all about putting religious thoughts into kids heads but something for every religion? That will NEVER happen.

I\'m just pointing out that the way things run right now is unfair.

I don\'t expect any of what I suggested to happen anytime soon, not with the religious influence over those in charge at the moment.

What is unfair is that the culture that was established by our Founding Father\'s is constantly under attack from the lunatic left (to clarify: the extreme left) who are intent on setting up the US as another Socialist welfare state that takes care of everyone.

Socialism doesnt have shit to do with secularism, but thanks for trying.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
What is unfair is that the culture that was established by our Founding Father\'s is constantly under attack from the lunatic left (to clarify: the extreme left) who are intent on setting up the US as another Socialist welfare state that takes care of everyone.

As opposed to the retarded right (to clarify: the extreme right) who want the exact same thing that our founding father\'s fought against. You know that whole totalitarian, monotheistic, church state, that everyone loved.

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Socialism doesnt have shit to do with secularism, but thanks for trying.

Really it doesn\'t?  I think the two go hand in hand.  Western Europe is secular and socialist as opposed to America being Judeo Christian and capitalist.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Really it doesn\'t?  I think the two go hand in hand.  Western Europe is secular and socialist as opposed to America being Judeo Christian and capitalist.

1) The two don\'t go hand in hand. If they did there would not be exceptions to the rule. (Just like Republican and Conservative may usually mean the same people they are not mutually exclusive)

2) Having some socialist policies/programs does not make a government socialist. Canada has universal health care but remains very capitalist just like MOST of western Europe. As a matter of fact, welfare is a socialist program. Is the United States socialist now?

Originally posted by Titan
Hamp, \'under God\' wasn\'t in the original Pledge of Allegience. It was added during the Cold War after WW2.

really? That\'s like going back in time.

anyway, go Ruy and BS!

Originally posted by Black Samurai

2) Having some socialist policies/programs does not make a government socialist. Canada has universal health care but remains very capitalist just like MOST of western Europe. As a matter of fact, welfare is a socialist program. Is the United States socialist now?

You couldn\'t be more completely and utterly wrong.  There are those in this country who want to see our government mirror those of Western Europe and lose all of our self determination on the way to becoming part of a larger world government.  Those in this country that wish this along with those in Western European who wish to force this upon us through the use of the UN, the EU, international treaties like the Kyoto Protocals and with international institutions such as the International Court are angry about our resistance to having our soveriegnty taken over by Europe or some other world body like the UN.  America is not about "universal health care" and big government like you point out with your Canadian example.  America is unique in that it relies more on small government and letting people have choices.

The reason there are such anti American attitudes in Europe and among pseudo intellectuals here isn\'t due to the Iraqi War, but rather our resistance to these socialist and secular influences.  Peace activists couldn\'t care less about Iraq, but are more angry over our refusal to join them on their misguided path to creating utopia.  The United States supports small government - socialist Europe does not.  I, like most Americans do not subscribe to this and wish not to adopt European "values".

Lastly, this country was founded by religious men and American society is based on Christianity - regardless of how you and others try and interpret the Constitution.  We do have freedom of religion, NOT freedom from religion.  The main purpose of this article shows the idiotic and ignorant agenda that these leftist pseudo intellectuals are trying to force on our children.

Is it me or was it not too long ago that you (giga) said that our laws/constitution was not derrived from the bible?

Meh.

I believe that the U.S. is partially in the wrong for not adopting somethings. I dont feel like racking my brain over it or looking it up. But there are some "Utopian" as you might call them, acts that would definately benefit our living conditions. Its just that businessmen, some consumers etc cant see but more than 3 feet in front of their faces. Due to the uncertainties and all of that nobody is willing to take risks and abondon the set standard or economics.

If this makes any sense - Too early to formulate my thoughts.

America is not about "universal health care" and big government like you point out with your Canadian example. America is unique in that it relies more on small government and letting people have choices.

What a load of crap.  You would deny people healthcare, you would deny people basic human necessities of a society so YOU, someone who is well above the middle class line, can have your choices?  Please.  Someone below the poverty line doesn\'t have chioices.  They don\'t have options.  50% of the country is without healthcare and you think that\'s by CHOICE?  Man that\'s hilarious.

The reason there are such anti American attitudes in Europe and among pseudo intellectuals here isn\'t due to the Iraqi War, but rather our resistance to these socialist and secular influences. Peace activists couldn\'t care less about Iraq, but are more angry over our refusal to join them on their misguided path to creating utopia.

This is the first time I\'ve ever seen someone suggest that creating a country where everyone would be happy was a bad idea.  I can\'t believe I\'m reading this.  More then likely, Giga, you have health care.  Your family is the picture of the American dream.  Step on the backs of everyone else so you can reach the top.  Never have you spent time below the poverty line.  Never have you spent time on welfare.  Never have you had to collect food stamps or go to a church to get handouts.  Or been without healthcare and hoping you never got sick.  Or worked for an employer who provided NONE of that because of some loophole guaranteed to them in some wonky contract.  I wouldn\'t doubt if you were against unions at this rate since they promote equality and fair employment between employees.

I suppose that\'s what America is all about though -- everyone fends for themselves.  I suppose I would agree with you if that actual system worked out for everyone, but it doesn\'t.  It never has and it never will.  Universal health care is something that every nation should have and I can\'t fathom why anyone would disagree with that.  Don\'t give me this hogwash that it would somehow make America more socialist, just tell me your real reasons behind wanting to deny people healthcare.  Why do you think that\'s a good thing?

I did say that our laws were not derrived from the bible, but that does not mean that our founding fathers were not religious and that this country was not founded on the principles of the Christian faith.  As I said before:  Freedom of religion, not freedom from relgion.  Our legal system and the 10 Commandments were another thread Nicon.  What the principle of that school in California is doing is absolutely wrong.  It is one step toward revisionist history and socialism - regardless of what some you think - socialism and secularism are linked together.  

Name some "utopian idea" that would benefit our living conditions without destroying our economy and taking away a citizens right to choose or making it more difficult for any given citizen to get said service.  Socialism in any form will not work in this country - this is something quite a few of you don\'t understand.  We are not a country with a small population like some other countries that give free handouts.

Name some "utopian idea" that would benefit our living conditions without destroying our economy and taking away a citizens right to choose or making it more difficult for any given citizen to get said service.

Government provided healthcare.  I wouldn\'t handle it like Europe handles it though.  I would instead raise taxes for people by a bit and make all hospital positions government jobs where salaries provided to the employees were kept at a set limit based on position much like that of the FBI.  The government can contract out to pharmacuetical companies for new technologies much like they do for the military for all new equipment.  However, more then likely, with the extra tax spread across the entire US population, there\'s bound to be a surplus at the end of the year for various reasons such as people simply not going or needing to use the hospital for any reason but still being taxed anyways.  This surplus is where the fun begins.

With the surplus, people can vote annually on what to do with that surplus.  So for example, every ballot will come with health care initiatives such as some new technology or medication prospects or new hospitals/more of them or funding for some type of better equipment for hospitals and we, as a people, get to vote on what we think that surplus should go towards.  That way, every year, we get to choose how we want our nationally paid for health care plan can expand and watch our extra taxes at work for our benefit.  That\'s just my opinion though.

Hmm, this could be an interesting thread topic...

Who is going to pay for national healthcare?  We can\'t afford it because of our population.  Not to mention how many idiots would exploit and abuse the system.  Secondly, I don\'t want to wait 6 months to see a doctor - national health care = crappy service and long waits.  

If you make hospital positions goverment jobs - no one will go to medical school or go to college to become a nurse.  With the cost of getting an education in any medical field working for the government wouldn\'t be worth it.  This whole government controlled health care is socialism.  

You are correct about America is about fending for yourself and making your own way.  We are not a country that gives free handouts - how hard is that to understand?  There is not excuse to not have healthcare if you are employed.  I pay $452 a month just for wife and child and it sucks, but I pay the price to have it.  Secondly, if you have something really wrong with you - no hospital in the country can deny you treatment whether you can afford it or not.

Who is going to pay for national healthcare? We can\'t afford it because of our population. Not to mention how many idiots would exploit and abuse the system. Secondly, I don\'t want to wait 6 months to see a doctor - national health care = crappy service and long waits.

You don\'t know that.  In fact, if all private practices were folded into the government umbrella, there\'d be plenty of doctors at large hospitals to handle the patient volume.  There\'s lots of details to the system that I propose, but you assume these huge problems would suddenly crop up once it goes to government funded simply because you are applying them to the current sh*t system when that\'s not the case at all.

If you make hospital positions goverment jobs - no one will go to medical school or go to college to become a nurse. With the cost of getting an education in any medical field working for the government wouldn\'t be worth it.

Wrong.  With my system, doctor\'s educations would be government funded and open to anyone who can participate.  The acceptance policy would be quite a bit more strict though at the medical schools for that type of funding, but it would all fall under the governments umbrella just like military or FBI training.

We are not a country that gives free handouts - how hard is that to understand?

Who said it was free?  I said it\'d be handled in taxes.

There is not excuse to not have healthcare if you are employed.

WRONG AGAIN!  First of all, people are not given health care for a NUMBER of reasons by employers in many different feilds.  Secondly, if you work 3 jobs and each is part time, you know how much healthcare you are given?  0.  None.  No one covers part times workers for health care no matter how many jobs you work to make a living.  I don\'t know what country you come from, but 50% of Americans do NOT have healthcare and more then half of those people ARE working.

I pay $452 a month just for wife and child and it sucks, but I pay the price to have it. Secondly, if you have something really wrong with you - no hospital in the country can deny you treatment whether you can afford it or not.

Then that money you pay, which would be less in the long term, would be folded into a surplus at the end of the month to be totaled at the end of the year to go towards some new program that you yourself can vote on.  That way your money isn\'t just mystically dissapearing, but it\'s being put towards something that could benefit you some day if you need it.