Iraqi elections

[clips]

Originally posted by Ace
That is a good pont.


No matter how positive the news today people like Ted Kennedy will downplay it for his own selfish goal of doing what he can to destroy Bush.

while that may be true to a certain extent concerning Ted Kennedy, the fact remains that the bad news in iraq truly outweighs the positive news,..it\'s just a fact...it\'s like saying your house burned down and you lost everything, your job, your wife is getting twisted by the milkman,..and your loyal german shepherd comes to the side of your leg and pisses on you, yet you say "well uh at least i have 10 dollars in my pocket"....<----that is the situation in iraq...

Originally posted by SirMystiq
Yes. Also, America\'s democracy was given to them by another country. American people in no way started this war or revolted THEMSELVES in order to form a democracy. Back then, we had another country come "free" us.


Get it?

Your kidding right???? I know France helped a bit, but you have got to be fucking retarded if you don\'t think the people that were here had nothing to do with setting the States free and then setting up a democracy.

Please by all means Mexico and Canada would love to have someone, of your talented nature so please when you become of legal age take your ass to one of those countries and never come back.

Originally posted by clips
while that may be true to a certain extent concerning Ted Kennedy, the fact remains that the bad news in iraq truly outweighs the positive news,..it\'s just a fact...it\'s like saying your house burned down and you lost everything, your job, your wife is getting twisted by the milkman,..and your loyal german shepherd comes to the side of your leg and pisses on you, yet you say "well uh at least i have 10 dollars in my pocket"....<----that is the situation in iraq...

So this whole thing is a waste in your mind??? You obviously watch TV too much, I\'m sorry but there are people over there from your country working their asses off and all you can do is sit here and complain about how bad things are in Iraq. Your not over  there so you are almost completely basing your opinion on what you hear and what you see on TV and maybe from some people around  you, so in reality you don\'t know too much about whats over there, cuz your not.

Now if you want to tell us how it is, please pack up and fly over there and give us a write up of your adventure.

Originally posted by SirMystiq
WW2 was an actual war based on actual need to attack. Let\'s not forget that the US had no intention of helping the Jews other than by some ammo and a couple of embargos. Also that the Japanese attacked the US and we declared war on JAPAN not Germany. But then Germany declared war on us.

Anyways. Let\'s also not forget that most of our casualties during WW2 came DURING the war. Not after "major operations have ended" and the "mission was accomplished"


Why does it have to be "liberal news"? Why can\'t it be the media all together. I\'m tired of some neo-cons trying to give the word "liberal" a negative connotation.

There are apologists today who deny the Holocaust. Some say the Jews lie, and perpetuate this grand scam to illicit sympathy. There are people today, some claim that FDR allowed the Japanese to attack, some claim he secretly provoked them, intentionallym or that we didn\'t fight until our own imperial interests were assaulted. There are those who say that using the atom bomb was nothing short of evil murder.

If WWII were going on today, these would be the statements of MoveOn.org, Michael Moore, the Hollywood left, and liberals in general. Those are the same people who say America deserves worldwide hatred because we are powerful and bullying. They are the ones who decry our President and defend the aims of Islamic terrorism, even if unwittingly.

There are so many people in America who are vocally opposed to this war. I think, more than anything else, this strengthens terrorists, urges them on, because they know if they keep up the bloodbath, enough Americans might turn tail, elect a mincing, fraidy-cat leader who will pull us out, and hand Iraq to Islamofascism on a silver platter, to placate the unwitting collaborators at home and abroad.

To me, the word liberal DOES have a negative connotation. The ideas of liberalism are not really bad, they in fact, do have altruistic intent I believe. The problems lie in that many of those ideas are totally unrealistic, and their implementation tends to create negative consequences because they are mishandled by people who are too short-sighted, or have ulterior motives.

So yeah, liberalism is a negative force. It\'s helping the terrorists in Iraq. Free Speech is being abused as a tool to aid and abet. This is America, however, and you have the right to be wrong. But I think the powerful Left are using that power in a destructive way, one that undermines this country. And I can only hope it\'s because they\'re ignorant, and not because they really do side with the enemy.

[clips]

Originally posted by mjps21983
So this whole thing is a waste in your mind??? You obviously watch TV too much, I\'m sorry but there are people over there from your country working their asses off and all you can do is sit here and complain about how bad things are in Iraq. Your not over  there so you are almost completely basing your opinion on what you hear and what you see on TV and maybe from some people around  you, so in reality you don\'t know too much about whats over there, cuz your not.

Now if you want to tell us how it is, please pack up and fly over there and give us a write up of your adventure.

sigh...like i said sheep...go back to the foundation of this war...wmd\'s..yea i know it got kinda lost between the mission accomplished s**t and liberating the iraqi people :rolleyes:...c\'mon man of course there\'s alot of positive things happening in iraq..but s**t i don\'t have to take a flight over there to know s**t is bad..i\'m not throwing a negative spin on it..it\'s a fact..and you\'re right i do watch alot of tv..where else am i gonna get the iraqi info from?

please don\'t go on a rant about how there\'s other resources other than tv, yea i know this but for the most part what you see on tv is generally what is happening in iraq, whether it\'s on a conservative channel or a liberal channel..i didn\'t say it was a waste..i generally stated imo i felt we didn\'t have to be there in the first place...s**t if you feel so obliged to follow your prez  through the gates of hell, take that ass over there yourself and YOU give us a detailed info report.....IF you make it back alive...

[clips]

Originally posted by Weltall
There are apologists today who deny the Holocaust. Some say the Jews lie, and perpetuate this grand scam to illicit sympathy. There are people today, some claim that FDR allowed the Japanese to attack, some claim he secretly provoked them, intentionallym or that we didn\'t fight until our own imperial interests were assaulted. There are those who say that using the atom bomb was nothing short of evil murder.

If WWII were going on today, these would be the statements of MoveOn.org, Michael Moore, the Hollywood left, and liberals in general. Those are the same people who say America deserves worldwide hatred because we are powerful and bullying. They are the ones who decry our President and defend the aims of Islamic terrorism, even if unwittingly.

There are so many people in America who are vocally opposed to this war. I think, more than anything else, this strengthens terrorists, urges them on, because they know if they keep up the bloodbath, enough Americans might turn tail, elect a mincing, fraidy-cat leader who will pull us out, and hand Iraq to Islamofascism on a silver platter, to placate the unwitting collaborators at home and abroad.

To me, the word liberal DOES have a negative connotation. The ideas of liberalism are not really bad, they in fact, do have altruistic intent I believe. The problems lie in that many of those ideas are totally unrealistic, and their implementation tends to create negative consequences because they are mishandled by people who are too short-sighted, or have ulterior motives.

So yeah, liberalism is a negative force. It\'s helping the terrorists in Iraq. Free Speech is being abused as a tool to aid and abet. This is America, however, and you have the right to be wrong. But I think the powerful Left are using that power in a destructive way, one that undermines this country. And I can only hope it\'s because they\'re ignorant, and not because they really do side with the enemy.

even tho..this is well stated...you couldn\'t be more wrong...just because there are some that oppose the war does not mean we want our troops to be pulled out..on the contrary the troops at this point have to stay until real security is fully realized. iraq was not an immdeiate threat to the u.s. yet bush chose to implement a pre-emptive attack on iraq and trust at the time alot of people in the white house thought it was going to be a walk in the park...which it was..saddams forces were defeated pretty quickly..

then it got real ugly real fast in the coming months afterward..bush had already alienated most of the world with his go it alone policy, only to come creeping back to the u.n. for help afterwards..i\'m not gonna go into a whole rant about this...just know that those of us that do oppose the war, only do so knowing that this was not the right war at this time...

as far as wwII is concerned i just know the basics on that scenario in which the u.s. was attacked by the japanese, and thus that was how they were involved in the war. if i was living back then i would\'ve supported the u.s. decision to enter that war to defend itself, plain and simple....

[Titan]

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Zero support from the start?  You have to be kidding.

Anyway looks like the elections were more successful than most you nay sayers thought.

Yes but will the electee stay in office or will he be assassinated?

[Viper_Fujax]

i guess these elections are just to set the groundings for the constitution. No one hugely important yet.

But u say 17 were killed, yet millions have voted. Id say things are going smoothly so far.

But arent these people kind of voting blindly? i doubt they know who they are voting for.

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by mjps21983
Your kidding right???? I know France helped a bit, but you have got to be fucking retarded if you don\'t think the people that were here had nothing to do with setting the States free and then setting up a democracy.

Please by all means Mexico and Canada would love to have someone, of your talented nature so please when you become of legal age take your ass to one of those countries and never come back.

Let\'s see. I quoted and obviously sarcastic comment made by weltwall. I capitalized "themselves" in an effort to emphacize the sarcasm of my post.

No, I\'m not kidding (Sarcasm)

From now on I will mark all of my sarcastic remarks. I don\'t think Mexico or Canada are worried about that, it seems to me that all of the people of my "talented nature" are born and raised here and somehow remind me of you.

Get it now?

It was sarcasm. Intended to point out that Weltwall\'s comparison is faulty.

Get it?!

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by Weltall
There are apologists today who deny the Holocaust. Some say the Jews lie, and perpetuate this grand scam to illicit sympathy. There are people today, some claim that FDR allowed the Japanese to attack, some claim he secretly provoked them, intentionallym or that we didn\'t fight until our own imperial interests were assaulted. There are those who say that using the atom bomb was nothing short of evil murder.

If WWII were going on today, these would be the statements of MoveOn.org, Michael Moore, the Hollywood left, and liberals in general. Those are the same people who say America deserves worldwide hatred because we are powerful and bullying. They are the ones who decry our President and defend the aims of Islamic terrorism, even if unwittingly.

There are so many people in America who are vocally opposed to this war. I think, more than anything else, this strengthens terrorists, urges them on, because they know if they keep up the bloodbath, enough Americans might turn tail, elect a mincing, fraidy-cat leader who will pull us out, and hand Iraq to Islamofascism on a silver platter, to placate the unwitting collaborators at home and abroad.

To me, the word liberal DOES have a negative connotation. The ideas of liberalism are not really bad, they in fact, do have altruistic intent I believe. The problems lie in that many of those ideas are totally unrealistic, and their implementation tends to create negative consequences because they are mishandled by people who are too short-sighted, or have ulterior motives.

So yeah, liberalism is a negative force. It\'s helping the terrorists in Iraq. Free Speech is being abused as a tool to aid and abet. This is America, however, and you have the right to be wrong. But I think the powerful Left are using that power in a destructive way, one that undermines this country. And I can only hope it\'s because they\'re ignorant, and not because they really do side with the enemy.

I agree. Why don\'t we just all brand ourselves with a W and join the army?


We should all just agree with whatever some neo-con might think is right and support him without casting doubt.


Right. I\'m sorry "liberalism" is not helping the terrorist. I think that our President sending soldiers in Iraq constantly in order to replace those that are dead help the terrorist by providing them a target to attack and kill. And by doing so they bolster their ego and they fuel their hatred.

They see those Christian missionaries trying to convert their people and they see the American\'s "moralizing"(Christianifying) their own country and only makes them want to defend their religious believes even more.

I don\'t really think you believe all the crap you just said about "liberals" If it wasn\'t for "liberal" thinking we would still be fighting for civil rights, slavery and freedom. Progressives encourage such thinks as technology, healthcare and, again, freedom.

What I don\'t encourage(as a liberal) is a faulty war with faulty logic that has caused us not only priceless lifes of our soldiers but alot of money and alot of pain. We have watched this President take a war of the whole agenda of "terror" and simplified it to Iraq.

If anything "liberalism" has helped shine light on our dim-witted President and has taken alot of American\'s of the shadows.

"The problems lie in that many of those ideas are totally unrealistic, and their implementation tends to create negative consequences because they are mishandled by people who are too short-sighted, or have ulterior motives. "

Short war in Iraq?
WMD?
Mission Accomplished?
Security?



You seem to have described our current government very well.

[Titan]

For the record, I agree with Weltalls post. Also for the record, I will also agree that Mystiq would be widely accepted as the smartest person in Canada or Mexico

Originally posted by SirMystiq
I agree. Why don\'t we just all brand ourselves with a W and join the army?


We should all just agree with whatever some neo-con might think is right and support him without casting doubt.


Right. I\'m sorry "liberalism" is not helping the terrorist. I think that our President sending soldiers in Iraq constantly in order to replace those that are dead help the terrorist by providing them a target to attack and kill. And by doing so they bolster their ego and they fuel their hatred.

They see those Christian missionaries trying to convert their people and they see the American\'s "moralizing"(Christianifying) their own country and only makes them want to defend their religious believes even more.

I don\'t really think you believe all the crap you just said about "liberals" If it wasn\'t for "liberal" thinking we would still be fighting for civil rights, slavery and freedom. Progressives encourage such thinks as technology, healthcare and, again, freedom.

What I don\'t encourage(as a liberal) is a faulty war with faulty logic that has caused us not only priceless lifes of our soldiers but alot of money and alot of pain. We have watched this President take a war of the whole agenda of "terror" and simplified it to Iraq.

If anything "liberalism" has helped shine light on our dim-witted President and has taken alot of American\'s of the shadows.

"The problems lie in that many of those ideas are totally unrealistic, and their implementation tends to create negative consequences because they are mishandled by people who are too short-sighted, or have ulterior motives. "

Short war in Iraq?
WMD?
Mission Accomplished?
Security?



You seem to have described our current government very well.

And you just kinda exemplified the very person I described. Someone who dislikes America, but would rather replace it or transform it with his own idea of a socialist utopia, a neutered Euro-clone, rather than outright destroy it. As it stands, you don\'t like it, but you can\'t find a better place to be.

I mean gee, after all, we have no right to bother terrorists if they don\'t bother us directly. We have to wait until they blow more shit up here. We have to wait until they knock down more buildings. Or buses full of kids. Or maybe set off a dirty bomb or a nuke in the middle of a metropolis.

Of course, even then, we DID provoke them, didn\'t we? We\'re bullies, so we deserve what we get. We should be more compassionate, talk to them, find what they want, and change ourselves to suit their desires. They\'re human beings just like we are. All they do is murder people innocents, and they do it for a good cause. We bomb people for oil.

Sick.

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by Weltall
And you just kinda exemplified the very person I described. Someone who dislikes America, but would rather replace it or transform it with his own idea of a socialist utopia, a neutered Euro-clone, rather than outright destroy it. As it stands, you don\'t like it, but you can\'t find a better place to be.

I mean gee, after all, we have no right to bother terrorists if they don\'t bother us directly. We have to wait until they blow more shit up here. We have to wait until they knock down more buildings. Or buses full of kids. Or maybe set off a dirty bomb or a nuke in the middle of a metropolis.

Of course, even then, we DID provoke them, didn\'t we? We\'re bullies, so we deserve what we get. We should be more compassionate, talk to them, find what they want, and change ourselves to suit their desires. They\'re human beings just like we are. All they do is murder people innocents, and they do it for a good cause. We bomb people for oil.

Sick.

Shut up.

Seriously, you have no idea how I feel about this country and further how I think about this country. I don\'t dislike America. I dislike our short-sighted government that is in power. I do wish for everything to be peace and prosperity but I know that in this world that won\'t happen.

What I won\'t stand for is being lied to and watching our soldiers die daily as a result of a dim-witted decision made by those in power. I won\'t stand for "freedom" when the idea of "freedom" is being shaped and molded by the media and those in government.

I won\'t stand for ignorance and be oblivious to the reasons why America is so hated around the world. Are they right for doing what they did to this country? No. But am I too ignorant and stupid to acknowledge their point of view of the entire situation? No

We DID wait for them to blow shit up here. Only after 9/11 did our bubble burst. What you seem to be implying is that Iraq was a threat and it was. But the threat was mishandled, miscalculated and as a result of that faulty equation we have death, destruction and the neverending stretch of our falling economy.

Your tirade of sarcastic remarks is dull and apologetic. You\'ve seem to have forgotten that Iraq is not the only one that "murder innocent people" That has nothing to do with the whole basis of this war. This war has been subject to frequent goal changes and mishaps and it\'s sad that your high regard for our President and your blinding and dangerous level of patriotism has led you to believe and of the crap you just posted.

We know all too well how you feel about this country Mystiq.  Where should I start?  

Do you even know what being patriotic is?  Take your liberal appeasement dribble and leave if you don\'t like it.  You have no clue on the principles which made this country and have allowed it to prosper.

Dammit Mystic if you want to have an intellegent debate dont open with "Shut up"