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Author Topic: China...  (Read 2148 times)

Offline clips

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« on: January 19, 2007, 05:34:02 PM »
i kinda thought this was a big deal when i first read this, but now i heard that the u.s. have actually been doin\' this since 85...still interesting tho...and if the u.s. is complaining, it\'s kind of makin\' them look like a hypocrite.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/01/18/china.missile/index.html
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Offline Titan

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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2007, 10:18:42 PM »
Isn\'t China like.....not a threat? If they lost relations with the US, wouldn\'t they pretty much collapse? I do know one thing. Those bastards took our oil :mad:
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Offline Paul2

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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2007, 11:48:27 PM »
man, it would be a dream when China one day become a free country where its no longer a communist.  When they become more open minded and change for the better, it would be really cool if they can downfall communism.  Russia did it back in 1991....makes me curious when China can change too...if ever...

btw, is the word choice downfall inaccurate when i say downfall communism on the above paragraph?

Offline Viper_Fujax

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« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2007, 12:59:53 AM »
maybe \'the downfall "of" communism in china\'..sounds better to me

Will it change? i highly doubt it

And isnt china our only threat as a second possible world power? So i think you\'re kind of wrong on them collapsing..we\'d be in some trouble too

I dont think this has any immediate impacts, but its definitly not a step towards the right direction in foreign affairs.

To be fair, we are sticking our noses into their business so i can see them getting a little pissed off about our satellites. It\'s almost the same arguement as wiretapping to me..if you have nothing to hide, than why care; but its still a tricky situation (for lack of a better term)
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Offline THX
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2007, 02:42:19 AM »
China\'s GDP is set to pass the USA\'s around 2040 (didn\'t we have this convo before?).  They will have much more money & resources than any other country by the end of this century.  Intelligence & technology is a different story.

I say we a-bomb them now and blame it on the japs.

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Offline Unicron!
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 03:54:49 PM »
Quote from: Paul2
man, it would be a dream when China one day become a free country where its no longer a communist.  When they become more open minded and change for the better, it would be really cool if they can downfall communism.  Russia did it back in 1991....makes me curious when China can change too...if ever...

btw, is the word choice downfall inaccurate when i say downfall communism on the above paragraph?
 Due to the huge population in China I dont think a different system would be appropriate for China. A system of capitalism will extend opportunities and welfare for certain groups and completely isolate and threw away whoever is not needed. And we are talking about billions.

 Regarding Russia although it seems like a free country now, life is harder for many many people. There is LOTS of poverty. The population is mostly consisted of a some rich and the many poor. Middle class isnt as common as many should expect.

A friend of mine who stays in Moscow for his studies in fine arts also confirmed this. They are also very narrow minded, suffer from huge welfare inequality, there is lots of poverty, education is low, there are lots of neo-nazis in the streets, too much crime etc. The rich Russians though are in a completely different world, having enough to spend millions of dollars for just a small piece of jewelery

 If you go to the market, you might notice that the majority of people having enough only to purhcase half a tomato, one piece of cheese, some tiny amounts of other vegetables, and if they are lucky some small quantity of meat at the most, while some of the rich Russians and foregners walk into shops pucrhasing expensive coats

 It sounds very strange for many of us but there are many many people who prefer the days of communism because atleast their first needs were quaranteed to get satisfied.

 Communism in Russia commited suicide by itself. Stalin took out all of the original, more rational revolitionists and politicians, and adopted a govermental bureaucratic capitalism, a dictatorship under the guise of a socialistic system in which he also cut trade totally with a great amount of countries. They tried to counter these issues of that policy with the creation of the Soviet Union in which trade would help economy work.

 But it was too limited and Stalin was a madman who completely sucked up the other members of the soviet union and he forced labor to work just like in the first forms of capitalism. Treated only as tools, under limited rights and in a confined Union that of the Sovieti n an effort to maintain the Soviet Union powerful. During the Cold War ESSR and the US didnt differ from two huge companies in a system of capitalism trying to take over each other.

 It was far from what Marx envisioned. China is similar but its less conservative than the Soviet Union, and does trade globally, thats why China will continue for years to come.

 Closing this I have to add that circumstances vary in countries so expecting a policy that works great or atleast satisfactory for some doesnt mean it will work perfectly or better than the previous in another.

 This is something many people should put well up in their heads before they decide which is best for each country based on "personal" experiences.

 For example I wouldnt want to see an effort to adopt comminism in my country because it wouldnt work. Not because communism is illogical, but because trying to adopt it under these circumstances is illogical. Such an effort will create once again another pseudo communist regime which might also turn out as a dictatorship. But if you ask me about China, changing it into a western capitalism, again it wont work as well. China is in reality another form of capitalism, different from the western one despite the entitlement of "communist country"
« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 03:58:36 PM by Unicron! »

Offline Titan

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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 04:52:11 PM »
Quote from: Paul2
man, it would be a dream when China one day become a free country where its no longer a communist.  When they become more open minded and change for the better, it would be really cool if they can downfall communism.  Russia did it back in 1991....makes me curious when China can change too...if ever...

btw, is the word choice downfall inaccurate when i say downfall communism on the above paragraph?


That would be cool. China has a very odd form of communism. They are a communist state but they are their own form of communism that seems to be working. Not too long ago, they realized they would too see the same fate as the Soviets so they switched to a more capitalistic economy, where they can buy and sell goods within the country. Not only that, but they traded with non-communist states. A trait the Soviets didn\'t have. They only dealt with communist states. Basically, China is a hybrid and its working for them. They should give the people more civil liberties though, but that\'s the libertarian side of me. What works in the US may not necessarily work there. But time changes society and governments. I\'m sure their government will change throughout our lifetime into something different than what it is today. I\'m really curious to see how China evolves. They definitely have a lot of potential.
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Offline luckee
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 07:44:25 PM »
Quote from: Titan
What works in the US may not necessarily work there. But time changes society and governments. I\'m sure their government will change throughout our lifetime into something different than what it is today. I\'m really curious to see how China evolves. They definitely have a lot of potential.



lol..the first part sounds like a good example of Iraq....

I dont think Chinas gov. will change much in our lifetime short of a war with someone. China has HUGE potential in many ways..especially as a large super power which is why the US is particularly concerned with what happens over there.
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Offline Titan

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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 08:29:01 PM »
Quote from: luckee
lol..the first part sounds like a good example of Iraq....


Pretty much.

[/quote]I dont think Chinas gov. will change much in our lifetime short of a war with someone. China has HUGE potential in many ways..especially as a large super power which is why the US is particularly concerned with what happens over there.[/QUOTE]

Which is why we should be working together to live in harmony so we don\'t have another cold war, which I\'m afraid of. I mean, if it wasn\'t for the US, China wouldn\'t be what it is today. Hopefully they don\'t forget that. There is so much potential for both countries benefits by working together. We need to make sure we don\'t end up getting into a second cold war.
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Offline Viper_Fujax

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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2007, 08:49:23 PM »
Quote from: Titan

Which is why we should be working together to live in harmony so we don\'t have another cold war, which I\'m afraid of.


and we can run in fields of dandelions and daffodils
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Offline Titan

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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2007, 08:56:25 PM »
Quote from: Viper_Fujax
and we can run in fields of dandelions and daffodils


Joke\'s on you. I love daffodils.
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Offline Unicron!
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2007, 06:17:03 PM »
Quote from: Titan
Which is why we should be working together to live in harmony so we don\'t have another cold war, which I\'m afraid of. I mean, if it wasn\'t for the US, China wouldn\'t be what it is today. Hopefully they don\'t forget that. There is so much potential for both countries benefits by working together. We need to make sure we don\'t end up getting into a second cold war.

 Well unfortunately history has proven that whatever colaboration between two superpowers we may have they never have the purest motives. They always hide their own individual interests behind them. Its motly like an effort to minimize a thread than help each other

 Even if superpowers work together they are always suspicious of each other and always take up measures in case the opposition becomes more powerful.  The opposition is always treated as a thread. Politics and dimplomacy never reveal the "true feelings". Honest colaboration is an alien.
 
 These superpowers will try to maximize their own benefits as high as possible and minimize the benefits of the other as much as possible. No one is risking their position as a superpower neither the possibility of the other one becoming significantly more powerful.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 06:19:15 PM by Unicron! »

Offline Titan

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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2007, 10:35:51 PM »
Treated as a thread? Are you high? But I do see what you are saying. There were times in history though that the US and Soviet Union worked together, or tried to. The US offered help in Chernobyl as well as during one of the Soviet space disasters. Actaully, after the death of some Soviet cosmonauts (its too late to be doing extensive research on this. I\'ll get back to this tomorrow), NASA and the Soviets worked together to figure out what went wrong. I believe it was Suyuz 11. There was a docking mission between one of the Apollos and a Soviet space craft back in the 70s I believe. It was weird. We were sworn enemies but worked together fine in some instances.

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_11
It was Soyuz 11. But it didn\'t say anything about a joint investigation. I did see it on the History Channel though. It\'s worth some quick Googling seeing that the wiki article sucks.

EDIT2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo-Soyuz_Test_Project
Wasn\'t a true Apollo mission but still....read it :p
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 10:47:08 PM by Titan »
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Offline Unicron!
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2007, 05:47:42 PM »
That was a bad choice of words by me. When I say treated as a thread I mean  observed as a potential one.
 Nice links btw

Offline Titan

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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2007, 06:14:23 PM »
Quote from: Unicron!
That was a bad choice of words by me. When I say treated as a thread I mean  observed as a potential one.
 Nice links btw


What are you talking about? What do you mean by thread? A thread is a topic on a forum or a thin piece of string that holds fabric together. I have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
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"13 year old girls sleep with older men cause they think theyre in love
13 year old boys sleep with older women cause theyd be stupid not to

 

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