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Author Topic: Bible Thumper gets thumped  (Read 16295 times)

Offline §ôµÏG®ïñD

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Bible Thumper gets thumped
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2007, 12:55:52 AM »
Quote from: Viper_Fujax
I get what you\'re saying, and it\'s definitly hard to define what life is. Looking for life on other planets raises that exact question. It seems like one of those things thats like \'if it\'s life, well know it when we see it.\' kinda like porn...

anyway, I think we\'re the only beings on earth with the mental capacity to make those choices your talking about..probably monkies too since theyre amazingly smart. But the majority of animals, i think, react purely on instinct, so they dont really have a choice in what they do.

I think the best description is something that eats and poops,lol. or at least digests and processes things to survive, which includes plants and microbes. Also leaves out the mountain eroding

It\'s definitly hard to define what life is though.


bs, i think all creatures decide things. My dogs are examples of this, they choose to do things. Hell, i can see there little brains ticking over when they\'re in the process of thinking of doing something.  I do agree that there are creatures that do decide on things and things that don\'t. Bugs being instinct mainly creatures, but if u study any animal long enough you can see they make decisions all the time.

My attitude to life is basically something that is self aware.  A mountain is not.
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Offline Viper_Fujax

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Bible Thumper gets thumped
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2007, 01:00:52 AM »
By self aware, do you mean makes decisions? or aware of their existence? because those instinctual bugs dont have either of those.

And ur right that there\'s thoughts in other animals too besides us and monkies..it\'s late,lol.
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Offline politiepet
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Bible Thumper gets thumped
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2007, 01:09:42 AM »
I think you are missing a part of my point. You think humans (and monkees) have the ability to make their own decisions. I keep hearing that from a lot of people. However, I think that is not true. Every "decision" we make is the product of our brain at work. But because the brain is formed naturally, it\'s not actually you who\'s making the decisions, but it\'s just processes at work. These processes are all perfectly well predictable, the same way as it is predictable that if you, for instance, heat up wood to a certain temperature it will start burning. The life you see all around you, being it human or rats or whatever, it is just the product of these processes.
When you study the human brain and compare it to any animals brain, you\'ll find out they are pretty much the same. the only reason we are smarter is that our cortex is relatively larger, giving us the ability to do more sophisticated things.
people often confuse their believes with free choice. to many people the thought of not being able to choose for themselves is too frightening, so they\'ll choose to think otherwise.
#RaCeR#:
i hope they all get aids and die they should bnt tbbe having sezx with just anyone they should be in love if theay are foing to have sex not just to make money I htink its wrong for them to just have sexzx for the fun of it specially when some of the performancs are married, its just wrong. tey are givng out deaseases to anyone and its just not right i tell you i think its really really wrong specially when tey have sex i dot whach porno though so im not sure what they do i dont theink theyr realy hjave sex its all just pretendnig but you never no what they do its just wrong speciallly when they dont even love each other its wrong i ell you in tsi just wrong. wtings owting wtrong wtongs wtongs. i dont like it. prlease explaions.

Offline politiepet
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Bible Thumper gets thumped
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2007, 01:12:03 AM »
Quote from: §ôµÏG®ïñD

My attitude to life is basically something that is self aware.  A mountain is not.


so then tell me, what actually is "self"? what makes you, you?
#RaCeR#:
i hope they all get aids and die they should bnt tbbe having sezx with just anyone they should be in love if theay are foing to have sex not just to make money I htink its wrong for them to just have sexzx for the fun of it specially when some of the performancs are married, its just wrong. tey are givng out deaseases to anyone and its just not right i tell you i think its really really wrong specially when tey have sex i dot whach porno though so im not sure what they do i dont theink theyr realy hjave sex its all just pretendnig but you never no what they do its just wrong speciallly when they dont even love each other its wrong i ell you in tsi just wrong. wtings owting wtrong wtongs wtongs. i dont like it. prlease explaions.

Offline politiepet
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« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2007, 01:18:59 AM »
I found a quote by Daniel Clement Dennett, a famous philisofer, whose views closely resemble mine. I hope he is better able to make my point clear then I am myself:

The first stable conclusion I reached … was that the only thing brains could do was to approximate the responsivity to meanings that we presuppose in our everyday mentalistic discourse. When mechanical push comes to shove, a brain was always going to do what it was caused to do by current, local, mechanical circumstances, whatever it ought to do, whatever a God\'s-eye view might reveal about the actual meaning of its current states. But over the long haul, brains could be designed — by evolutionary processes — to do the right thing (from the point of view of meaning) with high reliability. … rains are syntactic engines that can mimic the competence of semantic engines. … The appreciation of meanings — their discrimination and delectation — is central to our vision of consciousness, but this conviction that I, on the inside, deal directly with meanings turns out to be something rather like a benign \'user-illusion.\'

– Daniel Dennett, Brainchildren



You should really wiki this guy, he has some really interesting points...
#RaCeR#:
i hope they all get aids and die they should bnt tbbe having sezx with just anyone they should be in love if theay are foing to have sex not just to make money I htink its wrong for them to just have sexzx for the fun of it specially when some of the performancs are married, its just wrong. tey are givng out deaseases to anyone and its just not right i tell you i think its really really wrong specially when tey have sex i dot whach porno though so im not sure what they do i dont theink theyr realy hjave sex its all just pretendnig but you never no what they do its just wrong speciallly when they dont even love each other its wrong i ell you in tsi just wrong. wtings owting wtrong wtongs wtongs. i dont like it. prlease explaions.

Offline Viper_Fujax

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Bible Thumper gets thumped
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2007, 01:20:42 AM »
Quote from: politiepet
I think you are missing a part of my point. You think humans (and monkees) have the ability to make their own decisions. I keep hearing that from a lot of people. However, I think that is not true. Every "decision" we make is the product of our brain at work. But because the brain is formed naturally, it\'s not actually you who\'s making the decisions, but it\'s just processes at work. These processes are all perfectly well predictable, the same way as it is predictable that if you, for instance, heat up wood to a certain temperature it will start burning. The life you see all around you, being it human or rats or whatever, it is just the product of these processes.
When you study the human brain and compare it to any animals brain, you\'ll find out they are pretty much the same. the only reason we are smarter is that our cortex is relatively larger, giving us the ability to do more sophisticated things.
people often confuse their believes with free choice. to many people the thought of not being able to choose for themselves is too frightening, so they\'ll choose to think otherwise.


I think that\'s all too hypothetical, out of the box thinking. I\'ve thought to myself \'maybe i think i have choices out of instinct.\' But then i go back to thinking, not so much.

And i dont think predicting our behavior is easy. Maybe im confused on what you mean by \'processes\' but human behavior is very erradic. The best we can do is make generalizations on how people should act, but that doesnt mean that they will. For instance, do we do things out of nature or nurture? It\'s both because part of it is genetic and instinct, but because of our ability to think, nurture plays a huge part in how we decide things.
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Offline politiepet
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« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2007, 01:31:00 AM »
by processes I mean the process of salt dissolving and the like. The most basic of things. everything around you interacts with one another. it is all perfectly predictable. When salt comes into touch with water you know it is going to dissolve. Just like when you can know certain things in your brain, your body, everywhere will react in a predictable manner. So even the fact that I\'m typing this right now is not a product of my free will. It\'s because everything has acted in a predictable manner, through which the outcome, unavoidably, was that I\'m typing this right now...
#RaCeR#:
i hope they all get aids and die they should bnt tbbe having sezx with just anyone they should be in love if theay are foing to have sex not just to make money I htink its wrong for them to just have sexzx for the fun of it specially when some of the performancs are married, its just wrong. tey are givng out deaseases to anyone and its just not right i tell you i think its really really wrong specially when tey have sex i dot whach porno though so im not sure what they do i dont theink theyr realy hjave sex its all just pretendnig but you never no what they do its just wrong speciallly when they dont even love each other its wrong i ell you in tsi just wrong. wtings owting wtrong wtongs wtongs. i dont like it. prlease explaions.

Offline Evi

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« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2007, 01:34:36 AM »
Human behavior/decision-making is not 100% predictable though. And fuck monkeys. Monkeys are retarded. Let\'s talk about dolphins. :) Primates are stupid comparatively.


Quote
So even the fact that I\'m typing this right now is not a product of my free will. It\'s because everything has acted in a predictable manner, through which the outcome, unavoidably, was that I\'m typing this right now...
As logical as that may seem, it doesn\'t really fit into human brain mechanisms. We\'ve barely scratched the surface of understanding the human brain. I don\'t think things can be so simplified. Some evolutionists say we\'ve evolved a consciousness, whatever the hell that means. I do get your point though.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 01:36:52 AM by Evi »

Offline Viper_Fujax

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« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2007, 01:34:50 AM »
Yea, I totally get what your saying. I just don\'t really think that takes out any ability to make choices. Even though those processes are making me/allow me to type this, I can still decide whether to type \'shit\' or \'fart\'. Meaning, just because the brain gives me the ability to do thigns doesn\'t take out the idea of choice.

But you\'re probably beating a dead horse since going by ur way of thinking, those choices are only made because of the processes (for lack of better wording). As the great philosopher bill o\'reilly says, "we agree to disagree" lol
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Offline Evi

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« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2007, 01:39:31 AM »
Quote
Yea, I totally get what your saying. I just don\'t really think that takes out any ability to make choices. Even though those processes are making me/allow me to type this, I can still decide whether to type \'shit\' or \'fart\'. Meaning, just because the brain gives me the ability to do thigns doesn\'t take out the idea of choice.
Yeah, we still have the option to choose to do something or not, irrelevant of the fact that it\'s mere chemical processes. It\'s not predictable what I\'m typing. I could just randomly decide to say



VAGINA BLOOD BUBBLE FART!



Cognitive processes are not like your example of salt. They are spontaneous and not always well organized.

Offline Viper_Fujax

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« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2007, 01:41:26 AM »
Quote from: Evi

Some evolutionists say we\'ve evolved a consciousness, whatever the hell that means. I do get your point though.


Even though I believe in evolution, behavioral evolution always seems like a stretch to me. Like, Agression is prominent because only the aggressive males back in the day were able to fight off other males to win land, and more importantly females, and their genes spread as opposed to the other less-aggressive male. Sounds logical, but it\'s always over-simplified and somewhat of a \'what-if\' situation.

Maybe those with consciousness had the cognitive ability to survive and reproduce...always has something to do with reproduceing,lol
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Offline politiepet
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Bible Thumper gets thumped
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2007, 01:46:36 AM »
Quote from: Evi
Yeah, we still have the option to choose to do something or not, irrelevant of the fact that it\'s mere chemical processes. It\'s not predictable what I\'m typing. I could just randomly decide to say



VAGINA BLOOD BUBBLE FART!



Cognitive processes are not like your example of salt. They are spontaneous and not always well organized.



I\'m not talking about cognitive processes. cognitive processes are made up of different kinds of chemical processes in the brain.

Quote from: Evi
As logical as that may seem, it doesn\'t really fit into human brain mechanisms


why wouldn\'t it?





btw. did any of you read my post about daniel dennett\'s views? it was the last post on the previous page, so you might have missed it. If you didn\'t read it, please do and elaborate on it.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 01:48:39 AM by politiepet »
#RaCeR#:
i hope they all get aids and die they should bnt tbbe having sezx with just anyone they should be in love if theay are foing to have sex not just to make money I htink its wrong for them to just have sexzx for the fun of it specially when some of the performancs are married, its just wrong. tey are givng out deaseases to anyone and its just not right i tell you i think its really really wrong specially when tey have sex i dot whach porno though so im not sure what they do i dont theink theyr realy hjave sex its all just pretendnig but you never no what they do its just wrong speciallly when they dont even love each other its wrong i ell you in tsi just wrong. wtings owting wtrong wtongs wtongs. i dont like it. prlease explaions.

Offline Evi

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Bible Thumper gets thumped
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2007, 02:30:11 AM »
I\'m tired. -.0

Offline §ôµÏG®ïñD

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Bible Thumper gets thumped
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2007, 04:10:47 AM »
Quote from: politiepet
I think you are missing a part of my point. You think humans (and monkees) have the ability to make their own decisions. I keep hearing that from a lot of people. However, I think that is not true. Every "decision" we make is the product of our brain at work. But because the brain is formed naturally, it\'s not actually you who\'s making the decisions, but it\'s just processes at work. These processes are all perfectly well predictable, the same way as it is predictable that if you, for instance, heat up wood to a certain temperature it will start burning. The life you see all around you, being it human or rats or whatever, it is just the product of these processes.
When you study the human brain and compare it to any animals brain, you\'ll find out they are pretty much the same. the only reason we are smarter is that our cortex is relatively larger, giving us the ability to do more sophisticated things.
people often confuse their believes with free choice. to many people the thought of not being able to choose for themselves is too frightening, so they\'ll choose to think otherwise.



odd, i thought my brain was my own. Its my own process that creates options  to go left or right, whether its a process of my brain is irrelevant. I control my brain not the other way around. Otherwise i\'d do implosive things without thought or regret.

Tell me this, why is every human on the planet unique?
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Offline clips

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« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2007, 07:28:26 AM »
Quote from: §ôµÏG®ïñD
odd, i thought my brain was my own. Its my own process that creates options  to go left or right, whether its a process of my brain is irrelevant. I control my brain not the other way around. Otherwise i\'d do implosive things without thought or regret.

Tell me this, why is every human on the planet unique?


I agree...while the brain does control every action and re-action, it\'s still a part of you,... you are the one making choices, the brain just gives you the ability to do so. And like souly stated, if everybody was as predicable as these supposed processes, then everybody would be thinking and acting alike...
knowledge, wisdom & understanding..these are the basic fundamentals of life

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