I think this has gone far enough.?

Dude, you should be a politician with the way you completely ignore direct questions. It\'s really impressive.

I ve answered my views directly in the previous page. If anyone wants to talk to me directly for farther clarification I ve provided my hotmail. I will not help the same bias and stupidity to be repeated again in the forum. Hostility is still here.

Others should become lawyers for not listening and repeating the same question no matter how many times it is answered until they force the reply they want.

edit: Oh and btw. Not just my views but I made a direct quote of my post in question and analyzed thoroughly what I ment

Unicron, I think they would like you to present some examples of the supposed crimes the jews performed, since you kind of glanced over that particular point. That I think might be were they thing you fall short.

Note that half of the quote refers to past while the second refers to the present (are not were). I did not say "were" because it is like saying that they deserved their fate in the 30-40\'s. The "are" though refers to the fact that the Jews are not free of crime and murders themselves.

The difference perhaps between you and me lies in the fact that I only say the jews are as much free of crimes as any other race, country, group, ethnicity. They, perhaps, feel that you come across as though you mean they are worse...

I hope I\'m getting this right...

Unicron, I think they would like you to present some examples of the supposed crimes the jews performed, since you kind of glanced over that particular point. That I think might be were they thing you fall short.

The difference perhaps between you and me lies in the fact that I only say the jews are as much free of crimes as any other race, country, group, ethnicity. They, perhaps, feel that you come across as though you mean they are worse...

I hope I\'m getting this right...

If this is the case they should be more careful since I have attacked the EU and the US more than the Jews, for exploiting the holocaust. I ve referred to Jew crimes only once and that I directed to Israel\'s crimes. I thought I made that clear in my previous posts.

They did not ask about the crimes. They asked why I believed they deserved it and they used a specific part in my post to support this, which made me go "WTF"!

If I started explaining Israel\'s crimes directly instead of trying to clarify that this is not what I ment I would have given the impression that I excused the holocaust by using their crimes as an arguement.

Truth is I was alluding towards the general perception we have about the Jews: that we remember them mostly as the victims of the holocaust, but our attention towards their present crimes range from weak to non-existent. They are just as criminous and inhumane as what they Nazis have been doing to them too.

It is not hard to find about their crimes. A quick search can reveal a lot. Here is one small example.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4580139.stm
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/cook.php?articleid=9407
http://www.mediamonitors.net/francis7.html

Oh no, we just want to know how "the Jews aren\'t innocent" is some how related to a direct discussion of holocaust. We\'re still waiting on that one, other than tired answers like.

"Read back."
"Already answered."
"Not going to answer."
"You wouldn\'t understand."

Or my favorite excuse is how English isn\'t your first language.

Luke is right. Consider a career in politics, because you\'re a pro at dancing around the question and issues at hand.
Hell, even Phil nailed it earlier.. How about we just say black people deserved slavery, because some black people have also committed crimes, there for, as a race they are not "innocent".

See what I mean?

Oh no, we just want to know how "the Jews aren\'t innocent" is some how related to a direct discussion of holocaust. We\'re still waiting on that one, other than tired answers like.

"Read back."
"Already answered."
"Not going to answer."
"You wouldn\'t understand."

Or my favorite excuse is how English isn\'t your first language.

Luke is right. Consider a career in politics, because you\'re a pro at dancing around the question and issues at hand.

Yet another one of your famous posts, where you dodge every thing being discussed.

Good job, goat boy.

....

Truth is I was alluding towards the general perception we have about the Jews: that we remember them mostly as the victims of the holocaust, but our attention towards their present crimes range from weak to non-existent. They are just as criminous and inhumane as what they Nazis have been doing to them too.

....

Therefor  - the Jews are not innocent and the holocaust was justified.

Thanks for clearing this one up.

Here we go again

You said it not me

[Viper_Fujax]

seriously uni, that\'s what your implying. And why are you even connecting crimes by israel to holocaust victimes..israel didnt even exist during WWII. Even if they did, how does a governments crime have any relation to the crimes done to the jews? 1) they weren\'t israelis and 2) They were just normal, lower/middle class people for the most part and have nothing to do with the crimes your alluding to.

And no shit theyd use the holocaust as propaganda. It was a shit event that almost any government would use. there\'s still no connection to their use of propaganda to being sympathetic to what happened to innocent people. And just because your sympathetic to those people doesnt mean your not being sympathetic to the shit-ton of other inhumane and shitty things that have happened through history. Just happens that theres a lot more disturbing footage and pictures of these people than almost anything else so naturally it gets more attention than other crimes

edit: i dunno why i said shit a lot, haha..i\'d edit it but you\'ve probably already read it by now

You know, there is a reason every one disagrees with your point and is "mis understanding you". Put two and two together, buddy.

seriously uni, that\'s what your implying. And why are you even connecting crimes by israel to holocaust victimes..israel didnt even exist during WWII. Even if they did, how does a governments crime have any relation to the crimes done to the jews? 1) they weren\'t israelis and 2) They were just normal, lower/middle class people for the most part and have nothing to do with the crimes your alluding to.

Thats not what I am implying! I am stating clearly that the holocaust is being viewed as the biggest and most tragic event in history when paradoxically there are crimes today that do not get the same attention. Ironically some of which Israel is doing and are excused as a self defense by terrorists or ignored! I dont see anybody here or anyone else getting sensitive about this or showing the same annoyance. Are they doing anything less immoral? Less criminous?

And no shit theyd use the holocaust as propaganda. It was a shit event that almost any government would use. there\'s still no connection to their use of propaganda to being sympathetic to what happened to innocent people. And just because your sympathetic to those people doesnt mean your not being sympathetic to the shit-ton of other inhumane and shitty things that have happened through history. Just happens that theres a lot more disturbing footage and pictures of these people than almost anything else so naturally it gets more attention than other crimes

It wasnt used to be sympathetic to the Jews. Understand the morale behind their propaganda! Thats not what they cared about. They didnt even care for the Jews and the EU Allies didnt want them in their countries! It was exploited in order to take away attention from the losses and contribution of others.
You may view the losses of others as bad too but the impact their propaganda had was to outshadow the impact they would have to people. Thats why everyone remembers the Jew deaths and even find excuses for not giving the same emphasis to the deaths of others.They shifted their attention to the Jews that were no longer a problem. You just proved this with your perception of the losses.

Russia and Communism was viewed as a future thread, they knew that Russia was bound to get lots of empathy for the deaths and for winning the Nazis in Berlin! They knew that either communism would expand to Europe because of this or Russia would gain support and bigger power. They used the holocaust for that purpose. Thats not something I pulled out of my pocket.

As for the pictures you are showing how effectice is their use as a tool of propaganda. They showed you only the Jews, but the deaths of others were just as freakish! They just didnt show you pictures. In these pits there are also gays, handicapped people, Gypsies, communists etc! And you should also see pictures of the deaths outside the concentration camps.

Actually its me who should be asking you: Are you implying that the deaths of others arent as bada sthe Jews and doesnt deserve the same attention? Because they didnt show you pictures or because they arent Jews? And because they werent subject of propaganda? You imply this much more than me! And I want answers

"minimalizing" is not a common word. Please use "minimizing."
 
That\'s all. Carry on.

[Viper_Fujax]

i never said they were trying to get sympathy. but you being against their use of propoganda sounds to me like your being less sympathetic to what happened to those civilians because of a governments use of exploiting it.

and my whole point was that all of these crimes are equally bad. and did i say i gave the holocaust more attention? no. im talking about the majority of people. We went to maybe 3 museums through middle-school, and twice were holocaust-based ones (the second one was racism in general, but the holocaust was a big part of it)..hence the more attention of the masses, at least here. And i never justified it as being okay, just that thats the way i saw people around me and their attention. If they know a lot more about the holocaust than any other event, obviously that\'s going to be in the forefront of their minds

i never said they were trying to get sympathy. but you being against their use of propoganda sounds to me like your being less sympathetic to what happened to those civilians because of a governments use of exploiting it.

and my whole point was that all of these crimes are equally bad. and did i say i gave the holocaust more attention? no. im talking about the majority of people. We went to maybe 3 museums through school, and twice were holocaust-based ones (the second one was racism in general, but the holocaust was a big part of it)..hence the more attention of the masses, at least here. And i never justified it as being okay, just that thats the way i saw people around me and their attention. If they know a lot more about the holocaust than any other event, obviously that\'s going to be in the forefront of their minds

My problem was the morale behind the propaganda. I am totally against any form of propaganda actually. I am not against stating historical facts though. Propaganda is the methodical and systematical spread of ideas with the purpose of influencing and manipulating opinion. Its aim is not to inform. I am sympathetic to all the lost souls. What I do not agree with is the fact that the masses are not just as sympathetic to everyone. They only emphasize on one race.

You might have not even seen museums dedicated that much specifically to the holocaust today if our countries didnt aim to influence and manipulate. These museums could be either byproducts of the propaganda of the times, ( and it many occasions they may serve as tools of propaganda). If the flow of information targets the holocaust thats where museums are going to rely and thats where novels, movies, books etc are going to rely as well. In reality we should have been seeing museums dedicated just as much to all losses including the battles. The Nazi\'s werent mostly a thread for the Jews. It was a thread for the whole world.

And we should be seeing even more genocides and holocausts in museums even those referring to the crimes of our countries.

Only if we see and accept everyone\'s mistakes including ours will we see a difference between human relations. Currently there is too much misinformation, too much pride and we hide in our countries pointing the finger or showing remorse to only specific groups.