Something to ponder about the PS2...

Hi!

I just want you guys to know that I am not here to cause any trouble, but rather to have a healthy dose of debates.  I just want to see your side of things, and what you think about the Xbox.

Here goes!

Currently, the Xbox is in direct competition with the PS2, and *not* the Gamecube. The Gamecube has its own market, so I am simply going to put the system head on with the PS2.

Ok guys...

Throw all your *personal* reasons on why you would get a PS2 away. I know many are enticed by the great RPGs such as Xenosaga, Wild Arms 2, the promising FFX and so on. Set your personal preferences aside and hear me out. Look at the whole ordeal with me from a broader perspective....

With that out of the way...

I don\'t know if I am accurate in saying this, but the PS2 is known for games like MGS, Final Fantasy, Tomb Raider, Gran Turismo, Crash, Bloody roar, Tekken, Madden, Ridge Racer....correct? Those are the biggest draw of the system and those are the games that sell the most and the *drive* that made the PSX number one in last generation correct? They are the franchises very much like Zelda, Mario, Donkey Kong, etc on the N64. Bottomline they are the PS2\'s most important games. I am sorry if I miss a few. Pls correct me if I have.

Ok the reason why I brought that point up is it seems like the biggest franchises on the PS2 are making their way over to the Xbox. It seems like almost every big franchise with the exception of Gran Turismo is in some way or another finding an incarnation on the system. Although Namco hasn\'t announced anything yet, Ridge Racer and Tekken are strong possibilities of what they have in store for the system and soon-to-be Square is definitely going to bring their FF franchises over.

When you look at things from a broader market, the reason why you purchase a system is for its killer franchises and the games that are exclusive to it. Ppl buy Nintendo products for Zelda, Mario, etc....

How does Sony look to the world now? I don\'t think these ppl really *care* if they are getting the games first. It makes Sony look very bad just the mere fact that they are losing these franchises to their rivalry. No longer do they have Crash, and MGS2 *exclusive*. No longer does it feel special to own a Sony system knowing that the games you play on it is finding its way somewhere else.

You guys have to admit it will hurt Sony very badly. Real bad! When you start losing your precious franchises, you are pretty much....screwed!  You know, killer apps only go so far. When you only have 2-3 games to look for on a system it\'s time to go looking somewhere else. I mean really, if you brought every killer app on the PS2 that will come out at the end of the year, do you really think you\'d be satisfied? Especially when you consider that right to your left will be the same game on the XB with better graphics and updates in gameplay.

To top it off, I know not too long ago ppl shot down the Saturn for not having "graphics as good as the PSX" or "not being able to accurately port a game over". Whenever you have two versions of a game on both the Saturn and the PSX, the PSX versions end up being the better one just because of better light sourcing and true transperancy or some crap like that. Small subtle graphic inefficencies made a huge difference to these casual gamers. Now I cannot imagine how the PS2 games will fare against the Xbox, but if the shots of Omnimusha Gen is any indication, I am sorry but the PS2 is going to suffer even *more* than the Saturn. When ppl start seeing both versions of the same game side by side and the Xbox version being almost *2x* better, trust me they will make a quick assessment and label the PS2 as the inferior machine. What better way to judge a system by two exact games. The same thing happen to the Saturn, and it will happen to the PS2 especially when so many of the ports are coming straight to the Xbox. The casual gamers will question themselves "Damn I can get that game on the Xbox with better graphics, why don\'t I just get that system".

Well to back this up I will include an excerpt from a Tecmo representative. Tecmo is pretty much unbias since they work for both Sony and Microsoft..


quote:
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Itagaki was first asked to address the issue of Dead or Alive 3 for the PS2 and GameCube. It is technically impossible," he stated, continuing with "The [graphics] quality would drop." Itagaki believes that the Xbox can achieve four to five times the performance of current machines. His team wants to make the number one fighting game, and won\'t consider a downgraded version. "If DOA appears on another platform," commented Itagaki, "it won\'t be DOA3, but perhaps another title.


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Then we have the whole developement issue. To quote one programmer "Programming for Xbox is so easy that it\'s almost a joke." Many whom have had their hands on it praise the system to a great extent. Of course, in the long run, ease of developement will win a lot of grace. Once Microsoft establishes itself as a *serious* and competitive platform, many developers will simply just opt to move their projects over to the system. Easier developement equals less cost, saves a lot more time, and of course better games in the end.  In spark contrast to the PS2, the system is consider a "walk in the park". Many have cited the PS2 as the "worse and hardest system to ever develope for". The system is also limited with its lack of vram, low resolution, and no AA, etc. The system is one faulty system and developers are taking too much time, and effort to achieve what could of been done on other systems in a matter of days. I think this is a big issue. When you have developers favoring you that is when you are on your way to *truly* being better than your competitors.

You know what else is incredible? The Xbox is still 5 months away! All of this is prior to its launch and it is simply incredible what they have accomplished so far. Have you seen the graphics on DOA3? Don\'t you think it is incredible how many developers they are able to sign on board. You have to give credit to Microsoft because if they are able to do this much in just a short amount of time, I cannot imagine how much they are able to do a year from now.

These guys mean business and Sony will be facing off with their first *true* competitor whom have the deep pocket, and ambition as they do.

Square is coming.....

Trust me....

More on that later..

On an ending note....

I don\'t mean to shoot down anyone who has a personal preference of purchasing the machine. I know there are fans out there who dont really give a crap about what I just posted. Seriously more power to you. I don\'t think I am getting the Xbox for "PS2 franchises" either. This whole post was written from a *broad view* and not of the personal taste. So guys be happy with your Xenosaga, and Wild Arms 2 or whatever. Don\'t let my post anger you in anyway. I totally respect your buying decisions, and I am happy that you are content with your PS2. More power to you.

If I have said anything inaccurate. Please shoot my head off. I am ready for any sort of discussion or debate.....fire away!

BAM!

You make a lot of valid points here. You will find a lot of the people on these forums are very open to the other consoles. A lot of us are going to get an Xbox or Gamecube too. People here are very open to things like this. We dont have many fan boys here.

But the reason we brought our PS2\'s are too play great games that wont be going to other systems like GT3 as you already stated, Wipeout Fusion, Twisted MEtal black, The Getaway and Jax and Daxter just too name a few.

Welcome to the forums and by the way, this belongs in the console debating forum

Firstly, it\'s Wild Arms 3.

Secondly, if I were to buy all I wanted for the PS2 this year, I\'d fall behind on my bills (Gas, Elec, Mortgage, etc.), so I could care less about another console having some games I can\'t get on PS2, since I can barely keep up with the PS2\'s line up (Summer/Fall).

....And if the Xbox get\'s equal, or slightly enhanced versions of PS2 games...Who cares? Not me. If that\'s the situation, where the consoles get the same games, then it really does come down to which console/company you prefer.

IMO MS should have stuck with PC\'s, so I would pick Sony\'s console over MS\'s anyday. And no, I\'m not being a fanboy or some other faggy term-- It\'s just what I think.

IMO Sony entered the gaming market when the industry was faltering badly. They pulled off a good gaming machine and have done really well at satisfying the consumer (although some will always hate them for the whole "2-ports" thing).

MS OTOH, came into this market STRICTLY in a defensive/offensive gesture. They really did see only 2 things (IMO)

1. PS2 is a real risk to the pc as we know it.
2. The Gaming industry is now surpassing Movies as the top grossing medium.

Bill (again IMO) is only in it to get a even larger chunk of the pie.

Don\'t get me wrong. I\'m in favor of capitalism, and I know that Sony, Nintendo and whomever else are in it for the money too, but somehow to me the whole MS foray into the market seems extra greasy.

Just what I think. I haven\'t had my coffee yet:)

Tshirts : hello

slavebots.xbox.com:912 : hello

slavebots.xbox.com:912 : identify

Tshirts : ms_slave_bot_200413.05

slavebots.xbox.com:912 : stat current_task

Tshirst : ms_slave_bot_200413.05 initiate op ram ms @  http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10634

slavebots.xbox.com:912 : execute continue_ram ms_slave_bot_200413.05

Tshirts : reply acknowledged

slavebots.xbox.com:912 : end_connection

[ I stole this idea from a member over at the IGN boards, Onimusha. Hope you guys think its as funny as I do]
I just wonder why anyone would bother. Enough pro xbox posts and you get a free game?

First of all, the NGC does not have its own market.  Even though the games on it are more cartoony than on the Xbox or PS2, it will still be stealing a lot of sales from both of them.  Just because you think the NGC is for little kids, doesn\'t mean the rest of the world does.

Second, the PS2 franchises are not going over to the Xbox.  Most of the games you posted is just a lot of speculation (FF games? Tekken?).  Until it\'s announced be the developer or Microsoft, it is not true.  Also, the PS2 has a lot of exclusives that won\'t be coming to the Xbox; like Vulcan Raven said, Wipeout Fusion, Twisted MEtal black, The Getaway and Jax and Daxter.  And lets not forget Devil May Cry, Baldur\'s Gate, and GT3.  And what would you rather have, MGS2 this fall, or MGSX two years from now?  The Xbox may be getting some of the PS2 games, but I would rather get the games sooner than later.

What\'s the point of comparing the PS2 to the Saturn?  Did the PS2 cost $400?  Did the Saturn have a over 10 million userbase before the PSX came out?

You know what else is incredible? The Xbox is still 5 months away! All of this is prior to its launch and it is simply incredible what they have accomplished so far. Have you seen the graphics on DOA3? Don\'t you think it is incredible how many developers they are able to sign on board. You have to give credit to Microsoft because if they are able to do this much in just a short amount of time, I cannot imagine how much they are able to do a year from now.

Yeah, the Xbox is only five months away and look at how great it is: DOA3 looks amazing, and, well, um, at least DOA3 looks amazing.  There are a few other great games, but for me, it\'s not enough to buy an Xbox.

Last I heard MGS2 was PS2 only. Even a guy form Konami said it.

Vivi

Last I heard MGS2 was PS2 only. Even a guy form Konami said it.

Well you heard wrong!

Ironfist

Just because you think the NGC is for little kids, doesn\'t mean the rest of the world does.

Actually....

You\'re the only person who thinks they are not.  The rest of the world does.

Second, the PS2 franchises are not going over to the Xbox

Some of the best franchises on the PS2 so far..

Madden, SSX, MGS2, Silent hill 2, Omnimusha 2, Bloody War 2, Nba Live.

All have been *Official*.

Most of the games you posted is just a lot of speculation (FF games? Tekken?). Until it\'s announced be the developer or Microsoft, it is not true.

Just because it is not official doesn\'t make it *not true*.  In fact, Square on board the PS2 is more real than not.  Why?  They said it themself.  FF online is a massive RPG that requires both the hard drive and the ethernet.  Having it exclusive on the PS2 just isn\'t enough to reap in the amount of dough they are expecting to make.  Namco hasn\'t made any of their plans official yet.  Everybody is bringing their best franchises over to the Xbox, I don\'t see why Namco wouldn\'t do the same.

Wipeout Fusion, Twisted MEtal black, The Getaway and Jax and Daxter. And lets not forget Devil May Cry, Baldur\'s Gate, and GT3.

Other than GT3, everything else is a far cry from being one of the top franchises on the system.  Xbox has basically nab all of *your* best franchises.

And what would you rather have, MGS2 this fall, or MGSX two years from now?

2 years from now?  Says who?  How do you know when Konami hasn\'t released a date for MGS2X?  I know Sony has an exclusivity clause but it is only for a couple of months (not sure how long) and not 2 years.

The Xbox may be getting some of the PS2 games, but I would rather get the games sooner than later.

Other than MGS2X releasing *later* on the Xbox (because of the contract) what other game is the system getting *before* the Xbox?  Show me a list.

What\'s the point of comparing the PS2 to the Saturn?

Graphical difference.

Cygnus

If that\'s the situation, where the consoles get the same games, then it really does come down to which console/company you prefer.

You are wrong on that.  The Xbox is getting the PS2s best games and not the other way around.  I don\'t see *many* Xbox exclusives making their rounds to the other system.  Besides, it wouldn\'t even be able to handle an Xbox game.  Too much of a graphical downgrade will be quite evident.

I know you wouldn\'t notice but Tisted Metal:Black got a 9.5, so how is that a far cry? And about the Tekken part... there is no logic to why it would go to the X-Box.

Namco hasn\'t made any of their plans official yet. Everybody is bringing their best franchises over to the Xbox, I don\'t see why Namco wouldn\'t do the same.

All that is is hope. One reason why Tekken would not go to X-Box is because it is arcade and PS2 exclusive.

the most popular franchises on ps2 come from EA-SPORTS .  Then followed by games like Mgs2,FFX,Tekken,GT,DOA, Silent Hil, and tony hawk. And besides FFX, Tekken and gt. The rest of those titles are all going to Xbox.

Those are titles that casual gamers know and recognize and are best sellers.

Here are some other potentials that casual gamers know.

Some other titles like Dino crisis - Which is a awesome series and Dino Crisis 3 is exclusive to xbox.

Twisted Metal. Well that last version of the game sucked, but its back in twisted metal black and will be awesome. So far it is ps2 exclusive.

Resident Evil - Multi-platform.


Wipeout Fusion, , The Getaway and Jax and Daxter. And Devil May Cry, Baldur\'s Gate.

Those are not games you can come out and say are excellent games because you have not even played them yet. If that is the case every new game in development is a awesome.

In that case I could say this for Xbox, House of Dead 3,Dino crisis3, X-isle, Hunter the reckoning, Matrix, WWF RAW IS WAR, Project EGO, Project K-X, Azurik, Bruce Lee: Quest of dragon, Malice, Amped, NFL Fever, and New legneds ...ect  You see I could name tons of titles that have been announced for xbox there is 290. I could very well say all 290 are great games. But that would be very stupid of me.

I mean ps2 has its new games coming out and so does xbox.  Most of the old psx franchises are being ported across platforms and no longer are just ps2 exclusives.

*takes aim*

Originally posted by Tshirts

Well you heard wrong!

Oh, that was a well supported rebuttal :rolleyes: Anyway Kojima himself stated at SOny\'s pre-E3 conference that MGS2 would remain a Playstation 2 exclusive.

Actually....

You\'re the only person who thinks they are not.  The rest of the world does.

The fact of the matter is that Nintendo represents a significant part of the videogame market sales. And whether they are considered kiddie or not, consumer dollars are going to be spent on their products, those are dollars that are not being spent on either PS2 or X-Box systems. So like it or not the Gamecube will factor into the equation and I believe it will be in a significant manner.

Some of the best franchises on the PS2 so far..

Madden, SSX, MGS2, Silent hill 2, Omnimusha 2, Bloody War 2, Nba Live.

All have been *Official*.

Onimusha 2 has not been announced for X-box. An enhanced version (once again enhanced is the key word) of the original Onimusha was announced. MGS 2 I\'ve already explained. I have never heard of Bloody War, so it\'s probably not that big of a \'Playstation\' franchise. As for the EA games, they\'ve always been available on most systems. Madden was also on the N64 and that did not stop the PSX from holding a majority of the market.

Just because it is not official doesn\'t make it *not true*.  In fact, Square on board the PS2 is more real than not.  Why?  They said it themself.  FF online is a massive RPG that requires both the hard drive and the ethernet.  Having it exclusive on the PS2 just isn\'t enough to reap in the amount of dough they are expecting to make.  Namco hasn\'t made any of their plans official yet.  Everybody is bringing their best franchises over to the Xbox, I don\'t see why Namco wouldn\'t do the same.

Square has stated on several ocassions that they have absolutely no plans to bring the FF franchise to any other system, other than the PC. And they have confirmed that FFX, FFXI AND FFXII are all PS2 exclusives. As for NAMCO they can do whatever they want.  

Other than GT3, everything else is a far cry from being one of the top franchises on the system.  Xbox has basically nab all of *your* best franchises.

WTF??? You\'re saying that Twisted Metal, Wipeout, And Baldur\'s Gate are a \'far cry\' form top franchises. Just what are you smoking anyway? Suffice it to say that I am quite sure that no one in this forum will agree with your idiotic statement.

As for the other games; they may not be franchises but they are very likely going to be AAA titles and thats what it\'s all about unless you consider Tomb Raider CXII to be top notch.

2 years from now?  Says who?  How do you know when Konami hasn\'t released a date for MGS2X?  I know Sony has an exclusivity clause but it is only for a couple of months (not sure how long) and not 2 years.

Funny how you call it MGS2X, the name of the game you are referring to is MGSX, despite your little fantasies.
 

Bam.

VIVI: Last I heard MGS2 was PS2 only. Even a guy form Konami said it.
Tshirts: Well you heard wrong!

No.  Vivi is right.  MGS2 is a PS2 exclusive.  MGSX (not MGS2X like you seem to think), is coming to the Xbox.  But Konami has not released any launch date, and has not given any details on what MGSX actually is (A port of MGS2?  MGS1?  Or an all new game?)

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IronFist: Just because you think the NGC is for little kids, doesn\'t mean the rest of the world does.
Tshirts: Actually.... You\'re the only person who thinks they are not. The rest of the world does.

The only person in the whole world?  I don\'t know...that\'s kind of stretching it.  You obviously don\'t know what you\'re talking about.

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IronFist: Second, the PS2 franchises are not going over to the Xbox.
Tshirts: Some of the best franchises on the PS2 so far.. Madden, SSX, MGS2, Silent hill 2, Omnimusha 2, Bloody War 2, Nba Live.  All have been *Official*.

I would not consider any of those games "franchises."  Franchises are games that the system is known for AND there has to be more than one game with that franchise name on the system (like the Tekken series was a franchise on the PSX because there were 3 of them)  Onimusha 2?  All I\'ve heard is a port of Onimusha 1 right now, but it could happen.  SSX and Madden are also going to the NGC.  They are hardly "franchises" on the PS2.  Bloody War 2?  What the heck is that?!

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Just because it is not official doesn\'t make it *not true*.

Ok.  Last I heard, Microsoft was scrapping the Xbox project and are entering the exciting field of fast food.  They decided they would have a better chance making a profit in the fast food industry.  Oh, and this is not official, but it\'s not "not true."  See my point?  What you said is just stupid.

In fact, Square on board the PS2 is more real than not. Why? They said it themself. FF online is a massive RPG that requires both the hard drive and the ethernet.

I support FF11 going multi console.  It would make the userbase in the game a lot bigger and a lot more fun, but as of right now, it is not happening.


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IronFist: And what would you rather have, MGS2 this fall, or MGSX two years from now?
Tshirts: 2 years from now? Says who? How do you know when Konami hasn\'t released a date for MGS2X? I know Sony has an exclusivity clause but it is only for a couple of months (not sure how long) and not 2 years.

Yes, 2 years from now.  Konami has said that they are going to wait until MGS2 on the PS2 is finished before continuing their work on MGSX.

Other than MGS2X releasing *later* on the Xbox (because of the contract) what other game is the system getting *before* the Xbox? Show me a list.

I can\'t believe this.  Ok, even though the list is small because the Xbox is not stealing as many games as you may be thinking, I\'ll list the games I know of:
Silent Hill 2
SSX (You didn\'t specify which version is coming to the Xbox.)
Onimusha (it has already been released duh!)


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IronFist: What\'s the point of comparing the PS2 to the Saturn?
Tshirts: Graphical difference.

Right now, the graphics are obviously better on the Xbox.  I won\'t deny that.  But the graphical gap is already closing.  Look at Run Like Hell.  When I first saw the pictures, I thought they were pictures from an Xbox game.

Click here to see the pics of Run Like Hell: http://194.47.16.181/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10631


Tshirts, you are obviously an Xbox fanboy.  I usually don\'t mind Xbox supporters that come here, but you don\'t even know anything about the PS2.  You assume way too much, and expect us to believe everything you say.  Go do a little research before posting here again.

TShirts


Your way off in your thinking,

This thread has gone in a awkward way. Hey T-shirt xbox is going to be a great system It has it own share of exclusive games that are in know doubt going to be awesome games. Yes it is getting a lot ps2 games, because developers are making the games all system now. Yes MSGX is going to xbox, but it what fashion nobody knows, but you can guarantee it won\'t be an advance verion of the psx MGS because that would be stupid and not profitable. Umm Iron fist I would consider Madden and Live to be Playstation franchise seeing how everybody knows playstation for those game and it is so very popular. But T-shirt don\'t get all excited over cross platform games. At some point in time it going to get old seeing the same games on all the platforms you need some to stay, but most of those games are old psx franchises. So it time for ps2 to get new ones Like getaway, red faction, and Devil May cry.

Because I agree most of the old ones are going cross platform. But I also agree that your way of looking at the situation and your out take on this hold thing is just plain incorrect.

Originally posted by XBOX
Umm Iron fist I would consider Madden and Live to be Playstation franchise seeing how everybody knows playstation for those game and it is so very popular.

Ooops, my mistake.  I have never been a sports game fan (the only sports game I\'ve ever had was NBA Jam on the Genesis ), so I didn\'t know that.  Thanks for correcting me though.