Something to ponder about the PS2...

I think that the one overriding thing that Tshirts is wrong about, is his thinking that since this is a PS2 forum it\'s filled with PS2 fanboys. Well, you\'re half right. There are a lot of PS2 fanboys here, but they\'re mostly kept in check by the older and more experienced members who, often but not always, prefer Sony. Yet we\'re not so stupid or arrogant as to think that no other company out there can provide us with good games. I think I can safely say that most of us anticipate the arrival of the Xbox and GameCube, as well as own a DC.

Now I\'ve seen your posts on Segaweb, and truthfully.. you\'re illk is the reason why I won\'t post over there. Just by looking at my name I know you people would brand me a fanboy. I guess I could chalk that up to my username, but I enjoy the oxymoron. It\'s an easy way to weed out the shallow minded from the people who just enjoy games.. despite the platform they\'re on. It\'s pretty damn bad when I\'m more at home on a forum of a console I don\'t support (Nintendose) than on a forum of a console I would almost litterally kill to get my hands on. (Segaweb)

Your attempt to start a flamewar or pissing match under the banner of "debate" is flawed by your reputation and the general openmindedness of the people of this forum. :P

Ironfist

No. Vivi is right. MGS2 is a PS2 exclusive. MGSX (not MGS2X like you seem to think), is coming to the Xbox. But Konami has not released any launch date, and has not given any details on what MGSX actually is (A port of MGS2? MGS1? Or an all new game?)

About MGSX.. sorry but what you are talking about was a made up interview done by one of the lesser quality sites last year during the flurry of made up stories about what MGSX was going to be. Just about every site had their own "inside sources" and "interviews" that stated that MGSX was this or that, and each sites info were all different. It ranged from MGS1 to MGS2 to a mix of MGS1 and MGS2 and even a couple said a whole new game.

But the only real facts (since they come directly from Konami and Kojima-san) are this... In an interview with Core magazine in Japan in Feb of this year, Kojima-san was asked DIRECTLY if MGSX was to be an enhanced version of the PS2 game MGS2 and if so what enhancements. Kojima-san answered Yes and said he could not talk about the enhancements. (A couple of other sites out there may still have the translation, I don\'t know) Also, prior to Konami REMOVING all information pertaining to MGSX from their servers, they were asked a bunch of times on the MGS2 BBS at Konami of Japan\'s website what MGSX was. And each and every time either Konami or Kojima-san answered it was ALWAYS an enhanced version of MGS2.

IronFist: Just because you think the NGC is for little kids, doesn\'t mean the rest of the world does.
Tshirts: Actually.... You\'re the only person who thinks they are not. The rest of the world does.

The only person in the whole world? I don\'t know...that\'s kind of stretching it. You obviously don\'t know what you\'re talking about.

Nintendo = Kiddy


I don\'t understand why so many ppl cite examples of so call *mature* games and then say the system is "for adults". The system at its heart is not. You have to take into consideration their advertising campaign, the design of the system, the content on it, their targetted audience, their appeal, etc. I mean everything spells "kiddy". One of the reasons why the system has a "cartridge like" game device is because they don\'t want the "little kids to scratch it". The system is also rumored to come in purple. Then we have the price set so moms will be more drawn to it, and the fact that Nintendo has *no interest* in the online game market because it "won\'t sell to the kids."

Lets move on to the games shall we. Nintendo at the beginning has marketed their system as "family oriented". By that they mean the games on the system will be very "family friendly". Sure the system will have its occasional violent games, but Nintendo utilize Luigi, Pikmin, Star Fox, etc as their main selling point. They are just carrying on their legacy. If you were to do a side by side comparison of the family oriented games Nintendo is launching verses the more adult oriented (blood, gore, adult themes) Xbox and PS2 games, you see a stark contrast. While they may have some games that are violent (Eternal Darkness, etc…) these types of games don’t move (sell) as well as Luigi, and other family oriented games. Whereas on the PS2, the games that *move* the system are violent, dark, mature games like MGS2, Resident Evil, and such.

In reality, you have to paint a clearer picture of when the games are going to be release, if they are just mere rumors, and how far apart are the releases. Nintendo, as of right now, is not putting out enough funds, advertisement, and the games to even break in and take a portion of the adult gamers. Rogue Squadron, and the sports games at launch will do didly squat to draw any sort of adult buyers. They need MORE than that! Fanboys always cite examples of adult games that you know won\'t come out for quite a while and are just mere rumors. The only game they showed that would appeal to the mainstream mass was Rogue Squadron, Too Human, Eternal Darkness, and Metroid Prime. Neither games are launching at the same time and/or will be released in a window of 5 months. That is not what I would call "breaking into the mainstream mass". In spark contrast to the Xbox and PS2, that amount of games is laughable compare to the hundreds of *mainstream* and sports games on the respective consoles. Nintendo simply has no desire to even grab a fair portion of that market. They have obviously lost their touch since the SNES days. Pokemon has made them gone soft.

IronFist: Second, the PS2 franchises are not going over to the Xbox.
Tshirts: Some of the best franchises on the PS2 so far.. Madden, SSX, MGS2, Silent hill 2, Omnimusha 2, Bloody War 2, Nba Live. All have been *Official*.

I would not consider any of those games "franchises." Franchises are games that the system is known for AND there has to be more than one game with that franchise name on the system (like the Tekken series was a franchise on the PSX because there were 3 of them) Onimusha 2?

So the PS2 is not *known* for Madden, Nba Live, SSX, MGS2, Crash, Silent Hill 2, etc?  You have to be kidding me!

Silent Hill 2
SSX (You didn\'t specify which version is coming to the Xbox.)
Onimusha (it has already been released duh!)

Silent Hill 2 is aiming for launch.  EA will have a couple of products ready also but they have not announce what yet.  Onimusha 2 is progressing along nicely (pics of the Xbox version was released even before the PS2 one).  Maybe the reason why those games are coming at a later date is because the system *hasn\'t* been launched yet.  Umm logic?

Then again, you are simply speculating and assuming *all* games are going to be released at a later date.  Which is not the case.  Neither EA, nor Capcom has announce any sort of date for the Xbox versions of those games.  How the heck would you know.  It is quite obvious the games are coming out as soon as the system is launching.  The PS2 is out first, *of course* any game released prior to November will come out first.  Purely irrelevant!

But the graphical gap is already closing.

Yea keep dreaming!

Tshirts, you are obviously an Xbox fanboy. I usually don\'t mind Xbox supporters that come here, but you don\'t even know anything about the PS2. You assume way too much, and expect us to believe everything you say.

LOL I almost proved everything you said wrong.  Look who is the assinine one making assumptions about me not knowing anything about the PS2 and *is* an Xbox fanboy.  The hiprocrisy some ppl display!

kangu

Oh, that was a well supported rebuttal  Anyway Kojima himself stated at SOny\'s pre-E3 conference that MGS2 would remain a Playstation 2 exclusive.

Yes and he also stated the updated MGS2 will be available for the Xbox with better graphics and more levels.

The fact of the matter is that Nintendo represents a significant part of the videogame market sales. And whether they are considered kiddie or not, consumer dollars are going to be spent on their products, those are dollars that are not being spent on either PS2 or X-Box systems. So like it or not the Gamecube will factor into the equation and I believe it will be in a significant manner.

Still.  They won\'t be a factor.  The mainstream market will be split between the Xbox and PS2 and *not* the GC.

Onimusha 2 has not been announced for X-box. An enhanced version (once again enhanced is the key word) of the original Onimusha was announced.

Wrong!  *Yet again*  Onimusha Gen is indeed an upgraded version of Onimusha 2.

Square has stated on several ocassions that they have absolutely no plans to bring the FF franchise to any other system, other than the PC

First of all, FFXI will be an mmorpg. That\'s massive multiplayer online rpg for those that don\'t know and these type of games are broadband games and usually use hard drives. And we all know the Xbox comes with broadband and hard drive inside. Now here\'s the beautiful part. Now that Square is making an mmorpg, Sony no longer has the largest user base. Only people with broadband make up the user base for the game, hence every Xbox sold is part of that user base. But with the PS2 and GC, people will have to buy peripherals. I\'m not saying that people won\'t buy them, but I think it\'s a very good possibility the Xbox will offer Square a larger user base for their game, because I believe more Xbox\'s will sell than broadband adapters. So even though Sony may have the largest user base, things change when it comes to FFXI.

Second, there is a reason to believe Square is coming to the Xbox:  They said it themself.

Third, They\'ve been in negotiations with Microsoft for 2 years now.  We know they are trying to work something out.

Fourth, at E3 they announced FFX as an exclusive PS2 title for a year (meaning it could go somewhere else) and made no mentioning of FF XI even though it was one of the premier showings.  When asked about it, Square officials simply said "no comment".

Fifth,  Nihon Keizai Shimbun..

You guys do know who they are right? Well they are the same guys who ran the "Sega is developing for Sony" story. The first group to report that story. Noone believed them, but they turn out to be right and everyone else was wrong.

Anyway......

Those guys have recieved *confirmation* from Square officials that FF Online is indeed coming. The only reason why Square hasn\'t *announced* it yet is because they are under exclusive contract with Sony. Also, with the pending release of their biggest PS2 game FFX, it would be *idiotic* to steal some of the hype and thunder away.

One last note.....

Just because something is *not* official does not make it less real. I think it is actually *more* real than not. It is known fact that Sony has exclusivity towards Square\'s title, and rather obvious they are not allowing Square to say anything regarding their Xbox plans.

It is cool to be a high skeptic, but sometimes being *too* jaded makes you...umm ignorant.

You\'re saying that Twisted Metal, Wipeout, And Baldur\'s Gate are a \'far cry\' form top franchises.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying.  Baldur\'s Gate a *top* PS2 franchise?  Since when?!!!  Twisted Metal has lost its touch since the 3rd incarnation.  The series took a nose dive.  Wipeout is not exactly the *main draw* of the PS2 either.  GT and MGS2 is, and not Wipeout.  I\'m not saying they are bad games.  Just that if the PS2 ever have to depend on those games alone, the system will simply not sell.

T-Shirt you make good valid points.... I like your style.
Agree 90% percent with everything you said, I would love to further explain my points, but I see you have already done a good job at that.

Oh and don\'t bother with the nintendo thing, i have tried many times to explain the same thing to people about nintendo=Kiddy. It seems people just don\'t get it, I\'m mean hey If you guys like Nintendo all the power to you, but please don\'t try and make the big N look like a mature console.

The first Capcom game to appear on Xbox will be Genma Onimusha (tentative title), an enhanced version of the worldwide hit Onimusha that will deliver new dimensions of gameplay that harness the power of Xbox. According to Keiji Inafune, producer of Genma Onimusha, the tremendous technological power of Xbox has enabled him to expand on his original vision for the game, resulting in new features and enhanced gameplay options.  "I’m going to create an enhanced version of Onimusha, the sort of game people will want to play over and over again."

Heres the link: http://www.msxbox.com/php/full_post.php3?id=1278

Not Onimusha 2, it\'s an enhanced Onimusha 1.  This is coming from msxbox.com.  That puts that argument to rest.

Now, on with my post...

. Like I said before, do some research before posting here.

I sugesst you do the same,

 "Ooops, my mistake.  I have never been a sports game fan (the only sports game I\'ve ever had was NBA Jam on the Genesis ), so I didn\'t know that. Thanks for correcting me though."

so he was mistaken by one thing, considering that was not the main point of his arguement, it\'s not that big of a deal. In other words you were both wrong at one thing, BIG DEAL.  I would like to see what you have to say about the rest of what T-shirt has said in his response, since I think he has brought up really good strong points.

[Bobs_Hardware]

TShirts, nice work, youve come in here new, and posted some interesting stuff.  Although i do disagree with most of it, there is too much stuff to reply to (seriously, there is ****loads of stuff, and i couldnt be ****ed)

so basically, ill say Welcome.  I hope you continue to back up your point well in the future of our forums, and i hope to get into some nice arguements with you

First thing I\'m going to say is you were right about something.  MGSX is an enhanced version of MGS2.  I\'ll just post the article and put that argument to rest.

http://www.coremagazine.com/interviews/29.php3?0


Now onto the Nintendo=Kiddie thing.  I think it\'s more like Nintendo=chartoony.  They are two different things.  Is it wrong for an adult to want to play another Mario game?  Personally, I don\'t want anything to do with the NGC.  I am happy with my PS2.  But there are a lot of adults who still like playing Mario games, and I don\'t think that will ever change.

The only game they showed that would appeal to the mainstream mass was Rogue Squadron, Too Human, Eternal Darkness, and Metroid Prime. Neither games are launching at the same time and/or will be released in a window of 5 months. That is not what I would call "breaking into the mainstream mass".

The mainstream market will be split between the Xbox and PS2 and *not* the GC.

So you\'re saying that the NGC will have a hard time breaking into the mainstream market?  I hate to break this to you, but KIDS ARE THE MAINSTREAM MARKET!!!  There are way more kids that play video games than adults.  The only adult video game players for the most part are hardcore gamers.  Nintendo will not have a problem selling their machine off.

-------------
IronFist: I would not consider any of those games "franchises." Franchises are games that the system is known for AND there has to be more than one game with that franchise name on the system (like the Tekken series was a franchise on the PSX because there were 3 of them).
Tshirts: So the PS2 is not *known* for Madden, Nba Live, SSX, MGS2, Crash, Silent Hill 2, etc? You have to be kidding me!

Like I said before, I made a mistake about Madden and NBA Live.  Maybe you forgot that when there is an "and" in between two sentence fractions, you combine both statements for the whole sentence to be true.  Read the part after the "AND."  

SSX is not a franchise (you can\'t have a franchise with only one game.)  Crash isn\'t being made by Naughty Dog anymore, so who cares about Crash?  Its now going to all consoles.  MGS2 and SH2 are not franchise games.  There has only been one of each game (on the PSX, I might add).  So how could one game be considered a "franchise?"

Second, there is a reason to believe Square is coming to the Xbox: They said it themself.

Oh, thanks for the link to a source in advance (in other words, give us some proof!)

Fifth, Nihon Keizai Shimbun..

I think you mean "shinbun".  "Japan Business Newspaper."

Just because something is *not* official does not make it less real. I think it is actually *more* real than not. It is known fact that Sony has exclusivity towards Square\'s title, and rather obvious they are not allowing Square to say anything regarding their Xbox plans.

Yes, but without proof, it means nothing.  I still hope that the Xbox gets FF11, because that would make it the ultimate FF game.  The more, the merrier.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. Baldur\'s Gate a *top* PS2 franchise? Since when?!!! Twisted Metal has lost its touch since the 3rd incarnation. The series took a nose dive.

Twisted Metal was taken over by 989 Studios for the 3rd and 4th.  Now the original team is back making TMB.

Wipeout is not exactly the *main draw* of the PS2 either.

Maybe not to you, but to the people who actually support the PS2, Wipeout Fusion is one of the most anticipated games.  I don\'t see how you could call SSX a franchise, but not call Wipeout, a game that has been on the PSX since the beginning, a franchise.


I never said this before, so I\'ll say it now.  Welcome to the forums Tshirts.  I have a feeling we will have a lot of good arguments in the future.

Nice. I just got done looking for rumors and info at Segaweb, and low and behold.. guess who put a flamitory post about us in order to get the Segaweb people pissed off and pump up his own image. (Which is rather low even over there from what I gather).

Now I can\'t speak for the other people from here that he quoted, but he took my post EXTREEMLY out of context. Tell me shirts, why didn\'t you post my whole message? Or furthermore.. why didn\'t you post a link to these forums so the people there could see for themselves exactly how much of a "biased" and "hatefilled" troll all of us are? Oh.. that\'s right.. it\'s because YOU\'RE the troll.. and posting a link, not to mention the whole of what we say and not just what sounds incriminating, would destroy your feeble attempt to insult us here.

Pathetic.

Not Onimusha 2, it\'s an enhanced Onimusha 1. This is coming from msxbox.com. Like I said before, do some research before posting here.

Why don\'t you take a look for yourself!

Here is a pic of the Xbox version...

http://mb.vgdirectory.com/May/genmaonimusha2.jpg

That was in the Magicbox.com archives, May 18.  Notice how they marked "genma Onimusha 2.jpg"

Here is the PS2 version of Onimusha 2....

http://mb.vgdirectory.com/Jun/oni28.jpg

Its the exact same game.

Then again, I could be wrong.  Sorry!  I\'m not too sure, but both screens look quite similar.  Anyhow, let\'s just wait and see.  If I am wrong, then I am sorry.  My bad!

One more thing.  Why do you keep on saying negative crap like this is some sort of mud slinging contest.  Am I making you that nervous?  Lets just have a peaceful debate so neither of us ends up getting ban ok?  Thanx!

I realized how jerky I was acting when I was writing that last post.  Sorry about that.  

From what I\'ve seen, Onimusha 1 looks a lot like Onimusha 2 on the PS2.  I am not even interested in Onimusha 2.  I\'m sick of the prerendered backgrounds, and I know Capcom is going to milk this series for all it\'s worth just like all the others.  I\'m going to get out of it before it just gets old.  Devil May Cry on the other hand...

And again, sorry for being such a jerk.

And don\'t worry about being banned.  I haven\'t seen anyone get banned for a long time.  As long as we keep the debating in the "Console Debating" forum, we\'ll be fine.

.


I never said this before, so I\'ll say it now. Welcome to the forums Tshirts. I have a feeling we will have a lot of good arguments in the future.

Thanx!  Me too!

I love my PS2, but  I love games above my PS2, and if i see a console with a sh!t load of great games, i will buy that console,  I will still play my PS2, cause i think all 3 consoles might have worthy games that deserve play time !  WOOWOOOO!

About MGSX.. sorry but what you are talking about was a made up interview done by one of the lesser quality sites last year during the flurry of made up stories about what MGSX was going to be. Just about every site had their own "inside sources" and "interviews" that stated that MGSX was this or that, and each sites info were all different. It ranged from MGS1 to MGS2 to a mix of MGS1 and MGS2 and even a couple said a whole new game.

.....



....



 Are you serious? Yes, they all told lies to the gaming world. It\'s all made up. I heard the X-box is all made up too and it is just a bomb and when you plug it in it blows up.

Tshirts,
You say xbox is getting all Sony\'s great games?!?!

...Well, I guess maybe in your eyes.

You see, my genre of choice has always been RPG\'s. And I really don\'t see the xbox getting many of the PS2\'s.

Sooo.. For me, no, the xbox is not getting the PS2\'s best games.