How many Heavens are there?

I never believed in hell with fire and brimstone - and then heaven, wich would be a place we couldn\'t evolve in. It can\'t be so black and white, so good and evil. But there are many holes, questions, so to speak.

What happens to small children - babies - who die within the timespan of 2 days to 10 months? they\'re not aware of the world surrounding them, nor the religions.

If you believe into the word of christ, and his deeds, are the possibilities to get to the highest level open to you, or do you have to dedicate your life to it?

Still, my religious beliefs lean much towards what you, Altered and IronFist, believe.

Originally posted by Darth Joyda
What happens to small children - babies - who die within the timespan of 2 days to 10 months? they\'re not aware of the world surrounding them, nor the religions.

The one unforgivable sin is denying God\'s existence.  A child, from conception to a couple years does not have the ability to fully understand enough to be able to deny God\'s existence.  Since people with down-syndrome have the mental abilities of children, they do not have the ability to deny God.  So. . . they go to Heaven.

Originally posted by Troglodyte

The one unforgivable sin is denying God\'s existence.  A child, from conception to a couple years does not have the ability to fully understand enough to be able to deny God\'s existence.  Since people with down-syndrome have the mental abilities of children, they do not have the ability to deny God.  So. . . they go to Heaven.

But, now if we think about it, it\'s wrong towards those who own the ability to choose between denying God or accepting him. So forth life for small children, who die young, is much easier and provides much easier pass to heavens - wich isn\'t rightful and equal if compared to those who live a long and a hard life.

It is a question nobody can truly answer. Even the answer you gave spreaded many questions more.

Originally posted by Darth Joyda


But, now if we think about it, it\'s wrong towards those who own the ability to choose between denying God or accepting him. So forth life for small children, who die young, is much easier and provides much easier pass to heavens - wich isn\'t rightful and equal if compared to those who live a long and a hard life.

It is a question nobody can truly answer. Even the answer you gave spreaded many questions more.

But many questions are not for us to answer.  I don\'t have the scripture to back up my previous post.  But that answer is given to us.  As to why some live short lives and why some live for a long time may not be for us to comprehend.  What other questions spawned from my answer?

Originally posted by Troglodyte


But many questions are not for us to answer.  I don\'t have the scripture to back up my previous post.  But that answer is given to us.  As to why some live short lives and why some live for a long time may not be for us to comprehend.  What other questions spawned from my answer?

Questions considering the meaning of this life. Without after-life, there would be no reason for our existence, so to me, it\'s logical that a place where we all go someday exists, after death. But sometimes I doubt it, and I get very depressed. I am a religious person, but life hasn\'t treated me with silk-gloves...

I know, Trog, that many questions aren\'t for us. But those questions keep circling my head and they\'re literally making me sleepless and angry. I will look for the moment when I get my answers... wich is after death, I believe.

Those who live short lives must fulfill their meaning quickly. Perhaps the death of someone young is a lesson to someone. But still it is wrong towards the one who has to live, and have to keep faith up, than to one who never has experienced what we call religion and never has to face the problems we get with it.

But religion is something our brains can\'t comprehend. We should stay in faith like children, and so I would\'ve wanted to die at the age of 10, when I had no doubts, no fears and what not. I was happy, truly.

These discussions are always interesting, Trog, and I expect to continue these tomorrow - but now I\'m sleepy, and that I have been able to express myself, I\'ll be able to sleep tonight

So, Good night everyone. Going to sleep...

Originally posted by Darth Joyda
I never believed in hell with fire and brimstone - and then heaven, wich would be a place we couldn\'t evolve in. It can\'t be so black and white, so good and evil. But there are many holes, questions, so to speak.

There is still going to be "fire and brimstone" though, just not for eternity.  When the second coming happens (many think it will happen within the next 20 years!  It\'s a scary and an exciting thought, depending on which side you\'re on), the earth will be burn and completely "cleansed" of all evil.  Satan will be bound for 1000 years, so we will not have any temptation.  We will live in paradise doing geneology work and getting everything ready. (read below about the geneology)

What happens to small children - babies - who die within the timespan of 2 days to 10 months? they\'re not aware of the world surrounding them, nor the religions.

When we die, and before we get resurrected, we will either go to the Spirit Prison, or Spirit Paradise.  Don\'t let the names fool you.  The only difference is one knows about the church and one doesn\'t.  The people in Spirit Paradise go around trying to convert as many people that are in the Spirit Prison as they can.  Even babies will have a chance to accept or deny the gospel.  And if you don\'t have a chance to get married in the temple on earth, you will have a chance after you die.

You may be wondering, "What about the baptizm?"  Like I said before, if you want to go to the Celestial Kingdom, you have to be baptized.  That is why the LDS people believe so much in geneology.  We find out everyone who has not been baptized, then we baptize them in the temple.  It is called "baptizms for the dead."  An alive person go in place of the person they are baptizing, and they are baptised for the dead person.

God has provided a way for everyone to make it to the Celestial Kingdom.

If you believe into the word of christ, and his deeds, are the possibilities to get to the highest level open to you, or do you have to dedicate your life to it?

Some religions believe that if you believe in Christ, you are instantly saved.  But the LDS church is different.  You don\'t have to go out and preach this religion every day of your life, but you do have to keep the commandments, set a good example, and do the things that I mentioned before (temple marriage, baptizm).

You don\'t have to dedicate your life to it unless you are in the presidency.  I can still be a programmer as well as a LDS.  The prophet, the 12 apostles, and the quorum(sp?) of the 70 all lead the church for a living.  We pay them out of our tithing to lead our church.  Personally, I would love to dedicate my life to this church.  It would make life a lot less stressful.  I wouldn\'t have to worry about getting a job or anything like that.

Originally posted by Darth Joyda
But, now if we think about it, it\'s wrong towards those who own the ability to choose between denying God or accepting him. So forth life for small children, who die young, is much easier and provides much easier pass to heavens - wich isn\'t rightful and equal if compared to those who live a long and a hard life.

It is a question nobody can truly answer. Even the answer you gave spreaded many questions more.

You have to remember the reasons we were sent to this earth.  One reason is so we can be tested, and yes, people who die young get out of this one.  But another reason is to learn.  While on this earth, we need to learn as much as we can, and hopefully it will help us become great gods.  The people who die young miss the chance of learning on the earth.  I think it equals out in the end.  It is fair for both the long-livers and the early-dyers.

Originally posted by IronFist

You have to remember the reasons we were sent to this earth.  One reason is so we can be tested, and yes, people who die young get out of this one.  But another reason is to learn.  While on this earth, we need to learn as much as we can, and hopefully it will help us become great gods.  The people who die young miss the chance of learning.  I think it equals out in the end.  It is fair for both the long-livers and the early-dyers.

I agree with you about learning as much as we can.  I try and be as good as a person as I can be....  Maybe I don\'t try as hard at certain times as I should but I am aware of my actions and what affect they have on others.

My problem is one doctrine compared to the next.  I have denounced all doctrines as false..  Not completly false but a misrepresentation of the way things are..  Through science and self beleif is the only way to transcend this planet..  If you do not strive for yourself then you are lost...  This talk about multiple heavens is all quite interesting but I beleive it is just another interpretation of something none of us understand..

There is one thing to belive in yourself..  Learn, educate yourself..  Take in as much information as possible...  Because there is only one gaurented in life and that is death.  So I say live for today.  And If I had to believe in anything I would say spiritualsim(sp)

Maybe I am wrong, maybe you are wrong.  But I say live for today and except all and their beleifs ..  I would love to sit down with some of you and have a conversation face to face...  I will keep up with this thread.  Because the things I have read so far are quite interesting..

Please keep educating me..  I am always willing to listen to another view point even though I may not agree with it..

The part though that you are talking about is these kingdoms, the KJV says that they are bodies, and those bodies are better than ours. It dos not say kingdom once in that entire passage. Nor does it say Angels seperate from humans and God. The thing I don\'t understand is you are saying Christ is not perfect since he keeps saying that there is a heaven and a hell. You belive Christ is your savior but you do not belive he is perfect. If you do not belive he is perfect than that means that he ins\'t the savior, and if you don\'t belive that you go to hell.

I am a Lutheran, we belive the Bible is perfect and has no flaws, and direct interpretation of the Bible. What your church has done is it has Read into the Bible. Since they did not agree on one part, they twisted that verse into saying what they wanted it to say. What you are beliving in is something that man said. Man is sinful and unclean, and then you shun from what Jesus says, who is perfect. Your church, my friend, is corrupt. It is like taking the Verse "But do not take an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth." And then sense YOU what revenge you can read into it. and just leave out the first part. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." I don\'t know where they get this from, or why they don\'t belive in a heaven and a hell. Go to a different church for maybe once or twice and you can see the difference.

The Jehova\'s Witness have taken the entire Bible and rewriten it, which is much worse than your church altered. Livin Chip, (I\'ve never talked to a previous JW) how did you get out?, are you parents still JW?, do they dislike you?, what are you now?

you do not understand.

The bible isn\'t perfect, because it has been translated and changed throughout it\'s many incarnations. The King James version is the most intact version out there, but even that has been messed with over time.

We believe that Christ is perfect and is our savior. We also believe in baptism for the dead and in 3 kingdoms of glory after death and resurrection.

Do not think that the bible is perfect, especially when there are so many out there. They were changed over time to have the meaning that a certain priest wanted it to have 1500 years ago.

also, don\'t believe that since your church is older than ours that it is correct, because we are the restored church that Christ set up on the Earth in Europe and the Americas.

Eric Jacob

Yeah, right... Your the one reading into the Bible about the 3 kingdoms which none of the Bible says. But see, you are saying Jesus lied about heaven and hell. Thus that makes him seem imperfect in your POV.

perhaps if He would\'ve told people about the 3 kingdoms, they would have killed them much earlier than they did. As He would\'ve been speaking sacrelige against the churches of the time, even more so then He was.

Kind of like what the LDS church is doing now? I guess you guys gotta here it sooner or later, might as well state it.


Eric Jacob

The KJV is not the most intact.  The KJV was constructed from the translations of the SAME documents as the other versions. I\'ve posted a comparason of a couple verses before, they say the EXACT SAME THING.  The differences are there because there are no exact English words as the words of the more ancient tongues.  The translations are basically synonyms of each other.  The newer the version, the more acurate translation of the Bible.  Because we learn more about the languages and what the English equivalents should be the more we study it.

Since Jesus never said that there were three kingdoms and he just said that there are two. And maybe if someone wouldn\'t have tried to twist Paul\'s words around, then we would not have this arguement. If Jesus said it, it is true.

For the Last Time! It Never Says AnyThing About 3 DIFFERENT Kingdoms In The Bible. Get That Through Your Head!!!

Calm down JediMaster.  I can see where they got three kindoms, our churches have just interpretated differently.  We\'ll just have to wait until our time comes to find out first-hand.