How many Heavens are there?

I wish I didn\'t have to start a new post, but I never got a reply from Altered Beast.  Could you please explain to me the verses in 1 Corinthians, 15 that describe the 3 kingdoms?  I would greatly appreciate it.

You can PM him ya know:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I thought that some of us can benefit from an open discussion.  Let\'s wait for a reply from AlteredBeast.

[Living-In-Clip]

Its biblical therefor it is open to interpation. Alot of religions believe alot of different things. Jehovah Witnesses don\'t believe it is a literal "heaven". I would go in depth on the subject, but it would take forever and its a bunch of crap, to be blunt. I would know, I was a damn Jehovah\'s Witness for most my childhood  / teen years.

So, if you\'re looking for one straight answer - its impossible. Everyone can read into it different and take different meanings to the scripture. Most religions do that,infact.

Belief is one thing but the truth is a completely other thing.
Peace man.

I am in the same religion as Altered, so I\'ll tell you.  I\'ll try not to get too deep and keep it as easy to understand as possible.

When we die, we will be resurrected and judged.  From there, we will be placed into one of three kingdoms (actually one of four kingdoms - I\'ll explain)

The lowest kingdom is called Outer Darkness.  The only way to go there is to actually know Christ lives, and know god lives, and deny them completely.  Unless we actually see god and know for a fact that he is real, we will not have to worry about this.  Cane (sp?) is probably going there because he knew they were real, and he denied their existence.  Probably less than a handful of people will go there, because it is so hard to go there.

Now onto the other three kingdoms:
The lowest of the three is the Telestial.  If you are bad and you don\'t repent, you will go here.  It is compared to the brightness of the stars.  Joseph Smith said that if we saw the Telestial Kingdom now, we would kill ourselves just to go there because it is so much more beautiful than this world.  And that is the lowest kingdom.  You may be wondering, why be good then if this kingdom is so great?  Read on.

The second highest kingdom is the Terrestrial Kingdom.  This is where all the good people go who never accepted the LDS religion.  If you do not have a chance to accept the LDS religion on this world, you will be able to accept it after you die.  Everyone will have a choice to accept it or not.  This world is compared to the brightness of the moon.

The best kingdom to go to, and the one you should be striving to go to, is the Celestial Kingdom.  This is compared to the brightness of the sun.  This is the only kingdom that you can progress and learn in.  There are three levels in the Celestial Kingdom.  The lowest one is where angels go to be messengers for God.  I am not sure what you have to do to become an angel.  We do not know what the middle level is yet.  The highest level is the best to go to.  

*Warning* The following stuff is where all other religions disagree with us and yell at us.  I don\'t expect you to believe it, but I believe it with all my heart.

From the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom, you can progress and learn, and eventually become a god yourself.  In no other degree of the Celestial Kingdom, or in any other Kingdom can you progress.  That is what hell is -- Knowing that you cannot progress anymore and are stuck right where you are for eternity.  For me, not getting to the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom would be awful.  I would really be miserable for eternity knowing that I could have done better; knowing that if I tried a little harder, I would be progressing and not stuck.  The only way to get to the Celestial Kingdom is 1. get baptized in the LDS church  2. Get married in the temple.  Your wife on this world will be your wife for eternity.  3.  Live your life worthily by following all the commandments (not just the 10), and repent if you need to.

If you are in a higher kingdom, you can go down to lower kingdoms and visit your family and friends who didn\'t make it.  But if you are in a lower kingdom, you cannot go up and visit people.

I hope that cleared things up, and I hope I didn\'t confuse anyone with all that.  If you have any questions, just ask.  Or even better, contact the missionaries that are in your area and have them teach you about it.  They probably know it a little better than I do.

crazy! you are LDS too, eh?

How come you never stepped in in the huge religion thread and helped me out man? I was struggling with some of the questions and answers I was being given!

Trogolodyte, look to IronFist\'s post for my answer.

Except I wouldn\'t say "you would kill yourself now to get to Telestial", I would say "you would want to die now". I think killing yourself in a sound mind probablky also throws you into outer darkness, as you wasted the only chance God gave you to accept Him and follow His commmandments.


Eric Jacob

Okay, I was reading the KJV of 1 Corinthians, 15, to which AlteredBeast has told us is where your church interprets this about Heaven.  JediMaster PM\'ed me and said that his church (and mine) thought that those three divisions were not separate heavens, but separate ranks.  So really it\'s not all that different, we agree that there are divisions, you say that those divisions occur as three different places, while I believe that these are divisions of rank, but in the same Heaven.

Thanks for clearing that up IronFist!

EDIT:  It looks like I was typing my post during the time AlteredBeast was typing his.  But I\'m glad we\'ve finally cleared this up!

Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Except I wouldn\'t say "you would kill yourself now to get to Telestial", I would say "you would want to die now". I think killing yourself in a sound mind probablky also throws you into outer darkness, as you wasted the only chance God gave you to accept Him and follow His commmandments.

Yeah, thanks for making that a little clearer.  But if you kill yourself or anyone else, you will not go to outer darkness.  You will go to the Telestial Kingdom with all the other sinners - even Hitler and people like that.  Like I said before, the only way to go to outer darkness is to know for a fact that God and Christ are real and then completely deny their existance.

And what religion thread?  I would have joined you if I knew about it.

[Living-In-Clip]

I don\'t wish to appear stupid - even though I will. But, what exactly does "LDS" stand for? I am just curious for I can look some information up on it on the \'net. Iron and Altered\'s posts have made me curious. After being raised as a Witness and see\'ing those views for so long, I\'m always curious about other religion\'s views.

Actually Clip, many people say that Jehova\'s WItness and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) are pretty close in some of their teachings.

hope that helps you out.

IronFist - how didn\'t you know? the thread called "we are all animals on this planet like everyone else" was the religion thread. And I probably contributed about 1/5 of the posts in it. it went over like 400 replies, I can\'t believe you never looked in on it.

I know you are older and probably could have answered some of the questions better than me! did you go on a mission yet?


Eric Jacob

Originally posted by Troglodyte
Okay, I was reading the KJV of 1 Corinthians, 15, to which AlteredBeast has told us is where your church interprets this about Heaven.  JediMaster PM\'ed me and said that his church (and mine) thought that those three divisions were not separate heavens, but separate ranks.  So really it\'s not all that different, we agree that there are divisions, you say that those divisions occur as three different places, while I believe that these are divisions of rank, but in the same Heaven.

I am not sure exactly where the Telestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms are, but I know all three kingdoms are not all one place.  Time to get a little more confusing.

When the 7000 years of this planet\'s life are over, this planet will be resurrected and will become the Celestial Kingdom.  Good and evil cannot be in the same place, so the other two kingdoms will have to be somewhere else.  I will try to find some bible references to back me up tonight when I read my scriptures, even though this info might only be in the Book of Moron.  And if you don\'t believe in the Book of Mormon, and the info is only in there, it might be hard to convince you.

Originally posted by AlteredBeast
Actually Clip, many people say that Jehova\'s WItness and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) are pretty close in some of their teachings.

If you think about it, all religions are alike in many ways.  It just that the LDS religion has things that other religions are missing.  Other religions have the truth (or in some cases, the modified truth ), but they don\'t have the "full truth."

IronFist - how didn\'t you know? the thread called "we are all animals on this planet like everyone else" was the religion thread. And I probably contributed about 1/5 of the posts in it. it went over like 400 replies, I can\'t believe you never looked in on it.

LOL.  I saw it, but I never went into it.  I wasn\'t sure exactly what it was, so I just ignored it.

I know you are older and probably could have answered some of the questions better than me! did you go on a mission yet?

Right now I am getting ready to go on a mission.  I have some serious scripture cramming to do in the next 8 months.  I can go as soon as this fall, but I think I\'ll wait a little while so I can learn more about our church.  I only get to do this once, so I\'m going to make the most out of it.

Am I correct in saying that the Book of Mormon stems from their interpretations of the Bible?

I find the passage that we are discussing to be difficult to understand.  I think that\'s what we have three or four general assumtions made from it.  The important thing is that we don\'t look at this passage alone, but cross-reference it with other passages.  I\'m unable to do this presently, but this weekend I\'ll be at home with my parent\'s reference materials and expanded concordance.  I\'ll see what I can come up with.

All I have with me now is the Living version.

Originally posted by Troglodyte
Am I correct in saying that the Book of Mormon stems from their interpretations of the Bible?

It\'s time for a little Book of Mormon history.  To make a long story very short, In the early 1800s (I can\'t remember the exact year), Joseph Smith was visited by God and Christ.  He became the prophet of our church.  He was given the Golden plates, as well as some other items (like the urumenthumum(sp?))  The Urumenthumum was used to translate the Golden Plates to give us what we call the Book of Mormon today.  The Bible tells the story of what was happening in Europe, while the Book of Mormon tells the story of the people in America.

If you have the chance, read the "Joseph Smith History" in the back of the tripple combination Book of Mormon.  It will explain everything about how our church was brought back onto the earth.

In case you don\'t know, the tripple combo Book of Mormon contains the Book of Mormon - which takes place back when the bible takes place, Docterine & Covenants - which takes place while Joseph Smith was alive, and Pearl of Great Price - which has some stuff from Abraham.  It goes along with what is in Genesis, but it is in a lot more detail.