Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate

This probably cause quite a stir I just hope the people who want to discuss want to answer and not the flamers.

Anyway its coming up to a year that the PS2 has been launched in English speaking countries, more so in Japan. Do the graphics impress you ?

For me they don\'t. It seems a lot of games hardly look any better than PS1 counterparts. Also the framerate for these horried games are unacceptable.

With the exceptions of GT3 and MGS2 (only one of them released) I haven\'t really been impressed at all.

Are up and coming games impressing you? I personally have noticed a lot of blurred and low resolution textures in these new and upcoming games. Screenshot quality aside they don\'t seem very sharp.

I\'ve recently been playing Shenmue on the DC. Even though im only using a RF cable its blowing away anything the PS2 has done.

I know its hard to program for, and I hope things will get better but will they really?


PS - Please no flamers - also yeah I know its all about gameplay, but if thats so true then why didn\'t you just get a emulator and emulate old games (the 1000s of ones you have never played).

PPS - Not that I should have to justify myself, but im not a fanboy of any console. I own lots of consoles and get consoles for games not for company loyalty.

Hope to get some good replies.

Nobody needs to flame you, it is your opinion.

these are my top picks for graphical games that impress.

MGS2
DMC
GT3
Jak/Daxter
ICO
TMB
FFX

I\'m sure i forgot a couple.

My choices are pretty biased, i guess, most of these games will be on everyone’s top 5 list.

hang in there RichGUK, it is bound to get better, and if not, i\'m sure it can\'t get worse.  

RichGUK, I see where you coming from.  My kids have a Dreamcast and the some of the game does look better in some ways.  Give the PS2 some time it will come soon.  

Are we thinking about the same PS2?  I am very impressed with the games we have seen so far.  The launch games were great IMO (TTT, DOA2:HC, SSX, Timesplitters).  Then there was a big drout of great games, but the games that came after that made up for it (Red Faction, Dark Cloud, Twisted Metal Black, GT3).  The rest of this year is going to be amazing.  (MGS2, Jak and Daxter, ICO, Baldur\'s Gate: DA, GTA3, Devil May Cry, and more I\'m sure others will list).

The PS2 rocks, and it\'s only going to get better.  With its 15 million userbase, it is going to be a hard console to catch up to.  I think it will dominate to the same degree that the PSX did.

Your an absolute ediot if u think PS2 graphics are almost the same as PS1.

Give a good reason before u flame the PS2.
GT3 on PS2 show what the PS2 is capable of. GT3 is the best looking game on any console or PC. I havent seen such top quality reflection on even high end PC.
Enuff said.

Get Lost

ok, your comparison between shenmue and some of the crap ps2 titles it lame. its liek comparing the best one one console, to the worst on another.

shenmue= best on DC.
gt3= best on ps2.

compare those, and then youll think right. your comparison is off.

i think the graphics have come a long way. if you think they look like psx graphics, go out and buy a couple of games for psx, or even better rent them.

the framerates are fine for us in the usa. i think the pal version ps2\'s got screwed this year.

but really. if you pay close attention, ps2 can push 6+ times the polys and has around 6 times better graphics technically.

but the thing is, do you see the difference? it is mostly up to the programmers. the people who did shenmue did it really well.  they used poly\'s efficently. many programmers for ps2 are just trying to figure out how to pull poly\'s  outta the system. once they figure that out, they can do things like what pholphony did with gt3.  use the vector units to their advantage... ya know, the whole bit.

i think the best is yet to come, and i am not dissapointed. look at the step from psxgames to ps2 games, and youll see what i mean.

edit:

Your an absolute ediot if u think PS2 graphics are almost the same as PS1.

Give a good reason before u flame the PS2.
GT3 on PS2 show what the PS2 is capable of. GT3 is the best looking game on any console or PC. I havent seen such top quality reflection on even high end PC.
Enuff said.

Get Lost

do not flame him for stating his  opinion.  he said that he just wanted a discussion, not a flame war. he did not flame anything. he just said what he thought.

so discuss, do not flame.

Gt3 and Mgs2 aren\'t the only good looking games on PS2.I know that\'s your opinion but I think your graphic standards are a bit high RichGUk.

Jak And Daxter
ICO
Silent Hill 2
Devil May Cry
Splashdown
Baldur\'s Gate: DA
Final Fantasy X
TTT
Madden
Ridge Racer V

Those are just a few of the games that are very impressive IMO.Ps2 has the power to compete with GC and Xbox .So far all of the systems have impressive games IMO.

But graphic don\'t really matter if the gameplay sucks. Remember IT\'S ALL ABOUT THE GAMEPLAY....Sucka

Ok ill reply to these first wave of reponses, oh yeah thanks for the cool replies.

TOXICAL

Ok thats cool, but in England one of those games is released the rest are coming out later on. Waitings fine, its just its been way over a year in Japan yet and I don\'t feel we have even past the already dead Dreamcast.

PSTWO

Yeah im hoping. The DC is pretty impressive for graphics.

IRONFIST

Well its your opinion but you must completly think differently to me where graphics are concerned. Ok fair enough TTT and DOA2:HC were decent... but SSX - slows down on every corner thats no where acceptable and as for Timesplitters the game has very bland graphics. I remember the developers commenting on how they had to keep the graphics to a minimum to keep the game speed high. All good games but for graphics I would only say that TTT impressed me.

Ok the next games improved I guess. Red Faction still very basic. I mean the likes of Kingpin and Half Life on the PC looks as good and them games really are getting dated. Not to mention the slowdown in RF too. In my opinion Dark Cloud doens\'t look *too* great although the frame rate rocked. Yep agreed GT3 the first decent looking game.

As for the next lot there coming up later on. Also not all of them are ace GTA3 in action from the footage on PSW isn\'t great at all. Its slow and to be honest its quiet ugly.

Yeah I never doubted the fact that it will do well. I think your justifying the PS2 as a gaming machine with good games. For graphics alone though I would only really say that TTT and GT3 were good from your list.

One other thing to add is that GT3 although looked good was heralded as an amazing achievment. Shouldn\'t this be the norm for PS2 graphics. The current norm is below the DC\'s norm in my opinion.

Ok keep the good replies coming.

Whoa 3 new replies and the first bad one...

NEOSTARSX

"Your an absolute ediot" - OK I won\'t even bother replying to this to avoid any arguments in the thread. I know how these things can quickly change.

FALCON4

Well yeah I wasn\'t directly comparing them as such. Shenmue was just an example of one of the *many* good looking DC games.

Yeah programmers make a lot of difference. That is proven by looking at GT3 compared to the other PS2 titles. We should have seen more of these GT3 type titles by now though?

GAMES

OK cool but once again we are back to the games which aren\'t released and the likes of RRV and Maddan are in a different league to GT3. Although TTT is nice but i\'ve already said that.

OK cool keep them replies coming - the good ones not the "edoit" ones please.

Originally posted by RichGUK
Whoa 3 new replies and the first bad one...


FALCON4

Well yeah I wasn\'t directly comparing them as such. Shenmue was just an example of one of the *many* good looking DC games.

Yeah programmers make a lot of difference. That is proven by looking at GT3 compared to the other PS2 titles. We should have seen more of these GT3 type titles by now though?

 

ok well i got the idiot when i edited my post, but tell me what DC games also look very good? crazy taxi was nto very well done, nba2k1 was beaten my nba street, nfl2k1 was beaten by madden 2001.

i dont see any others that would compare...

Originally posted by Falcon4


ok well i got the idiot when i edited my post, but tell me what DC games also look very good? crazy taxi was nto very well done, nba2k1 was beaten my nba street, nfl2k1 was beaten by madden 2001.

i dont see any others that would compare...

Yeah I agree about Crazy Taxi. Graphics wise its fairly poor.

Ok lets see well these things are hard to list but off the top of my head, Sonic Adventure (2), MSR, Virtua Tennis, Jet Grind Radio. Can\'t think of any others at this moment. Not a big list there but they looked very good.

Its as a whole though. Prehaps Shemue should be put up against GT3. However as a whole it seems that the DC games have been more sharp and better looking than PS2. Also remember that although DC has lived longer its also dated technology compared to PS2. Another point worth mentioning is that the DC didn\'t live that long. Give the PS2 a bit longer and in terms of years it will have suppased the DC. Then that will elimate any excuse of it takes time to get used to programming consoles - although I understand that consoles have different learning curves but when the average life of a console is 5 years it shouldn\'t take any longer than 2 years to be seeing really good games.

Although it seems that this thread is turning into a PS2 vs DC graphics. I was only using DC as an example for my statement that the PS2 graphics aren\'t great. Even if they were better they should be significantly better considering - newer console, newer technology, DC has been dead since about march.

Originally posted by Falcon4


ok well i got the idiot when i edited my post, but tell me what DC games also look very good? crazy taxi was nto very well done, nba2k1 was beaten my nba street, nfl2k1 was beaten by madden 2001.

i dont see any others that would compare...

...I don\'t either.Shenmue is about the only game that could really compare to the Ps2 games (It was in development for 5 years)lately,Ps2 is going to get alot better in graphic,by the end of this year I promise you that you\'ll like the PS2 alot better;)

Originally posted by RichGUK


Yeah I agree about Crazy Taxi. Graphics wise its fairly poor.

Ok lets see well these things are hard to list but off the top of my head, Sonic Adventure (2), MSR, Virtua Tennis, Jet Grind Radio. Can\'t think of any others at this moment. Not a big list there but they looked very good.

Its as a whole though. Prehaps Shemue should be put up against GT3. However as a whole it seems that the DC games have been more sharp and better looking than PS2. Also remember that although DC has lived longer its also dated technology compared to PS2. Another point worth mentioning is that the DC didn\'t live that long. Give the PS2 a bit longer and in terms of years it will have suppased the DC. Then that will elimate any excuse of it takes time to get used to programming consoles - although I understand that consoles have different learning curves but when the average life of a console is 5 years it should take any longer than 2 years to be seeing really good games.

Although it seems that this thread is turning into a PS2 vs DC graphics. I was only using DC as an example for my statement that the PS2 graphics aren\'t great. Even if they were better they should be significantly better considering - newer console, newer technology, DC has been dead since about march.

I think you are looking for the holiest of the  holy, the perfect game, you know the one that we all hope is just around the corner, or bound to show up with the release of a new console. Something that will make your jaws drop to the floor, and make you spend sleepless hours pondering the time that you will be able to play this game.
 
Well for the PS2 i had this moment some months back, the first video i watched of MGS2, you know which vid I’m talking about the one that was 100+MB big.

The Dreamcast was an easy platform to develop for.  The PS2 is not.  Why do you seem so surprised at the fact that DC games aren\'t visually overshadowed by PS2 games?

The graphics are fine, and they will get better.

GAMES

Read my Falcon 4 post. Thats my reply.

TOXICAL

Well I wouldn\'t go as far as that. You prehaps think im being a bit harsh on the PS2. Well the same can be reversed. I think the PS2 does need to improve on its graphics. I wouldn\'t say so if we hadn\'t met that stage yet. The Dreamcast has already set the notch for the next level of graphics - i.e. to suppase what the dreamcast has done. I just don\'t feel the PS2 has done it yet - yes it has in a handful of games - but on the whole it hasn\'t.

182Ways

An easy excuse is that. Yeah OK the Dreamcast was easier to program for. The PS2 is also a better piece of hardware than the Dreamcast. Im supprised that we haven\'t overshadowed the dreamcast because the PS2 has been out over a year in Japan and some of the games being released look dreadful. Then I switch on my dreamcast and the overall quality of the games - in terms of graphics - on that platform seems much higher. The PS2 should have overshadowed the dreamcast by now. The fact that it hasn\'t worries me. It makes me feel that the overall final quality of games in about 2 years time might only be equal to top quality dreamcast games. Not that I would be upset but I would expect more from a newer console - in a sense a generation ahead.