Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate

Why didnt any 1 mensioned 2 great upcoming titles:

-Splashdown (Thats talking about phisics(water)!!! )

-GTC: Africa (it puts the gt3 in shame, beatifull landscapes)


About GT3(i own the game)

1st- about textures, programers should decrease texture quality & Blurr the textures WITCH are FAR away, if gt3 had that, the metal fences @ about >100m wouldn flicker, and the white lines also)

2nd- Some tracks have awfull sceneries, they look flat! all we c is far mountains, they could use some more polys on the landscapes, and decrease a bit in the cars, ppl wouldnt tell the difference.

3rd- Framerate DROPS??? Most of these guys exagerate extremely on this! The only game that showed frame drops till today, is Timesplitters (PAL) when, & ONLY WHEN there´s all of the bots ON SCREEN fireing @ the same time using rocket launchers or any other type of explosive weapon.

4º-Gt3 is the best racing tittle till today, but has minor flaws not important but they take some realism, THE MOST STUPID 1 IS AT NIGHT OR DUSK WHEN WE CAN C THE CARS HEaDLIGHTS ON! AND IT DOENST PROJECT ANY TYPE OF LIGHT ON TO THE FLOOR!!! (PISSES ME OFF!)
What pisses me of 2 is the fixed camera, we cant choose much .
Another flaw in GT3, i cant remember anyhing else lol.
xbox has 1 great tittle upcoming that will take the numba 1 place but i cant remember the name lol. but its seems that PS2 Won´t be alone, Just look at burnout!

Still GT3 is the best racing tittle avaiable till today and i love IT!!!

Cant wait till:

- Devil may Cry (Crapy textures HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA)
- Sillent Hill 2 (crapy textures? LOL)
- SPLASHDOWN ( !*_*! EYE CANDY! )
- MGS2 (doenst need any coments)
- FFX..etc.. (dont like rpgs)
- ICO ( I believe this will be the first RPG ill buy, it seems way better than FFX)
- Tony Hawks 3 ( )
- GTC: AFRICA (LOVELY!)
- TimeSplitters2 (The best Multiplayer game on ps2)
-SpyHunter
-BurnOut (13 MILLION POLYS!!!)
-Drop Ship



I could go on, like Ace Combat 4 (crapy textures! MY ASS!!! PHOTOREALISTIC EVEN MORE THAN GT3!)

As every1 can see there are starting to show up rally good 2nd generation games with Xelent textures, nice gameplay, great variaty of titles for all tastes!

The only game i feel bad not to come in to the PS2 (But its rumored to come) is.............PLANETSIDE! (i believe it will only come 1 year after the online strategy of sony is up and running)

OOOoohhh, I FORGOT ANOTHER IMPORTANT GAME!
(aahh i cant remember the freeking name of it, its about outlaws mafia, thiefs, car chases, and its not GTA3, its....ggrrrr....remember....REMEMBER!!! I had to c the "Review" section to look up for the games name, lolol)

>>>>>  THE GETAWAY <<<<<<

The game everyone talked about when the 1st pics were released, REMEMBER ALL GUYS WERE COMENTING ABOUT THE TEXTURES, "impossible to be in real-time", "I doubt thats in real-time" "Thats Pre-rendered".......blá...blá..blá....

Well no movie was released besides 1 were we can c the caracter talking with the Bad guy, smoking  a cigar, in a white suit!.

Crapy textures???
Still with doubts about ps2 capalibilities?

I must admit, i whole hartedly agree with you Rich. After getting over the graphics in GT3, which isn\'t really that hard to do,
i\'m feeling a little underwhelmed by the overall ignorance of Sony. There may be only about 7 games that i\'m seriously
waiting for, but these will also appear on Microsofts X-Box.
It\'s loking imho that sony will get washed up as people defer to either GC or X-Box. now i am certainly not one to want
to go to another console after such a small time with the PS2
but it\'s looking doomed right about now. textures just look rubbish imho, and don\'t seem to be getting any better.
probably one of the only games comming out that really impresses me is Devil May Cry, this does look good,
but we Brits have to put up with shoddy conversions
and most likley that this will have borders as big as Onimusha\'s. I\'m pissed at crappy conversions and have quite
simply had enough. i am seriously debating wether to sell my PS2 while i can get a good price, then wait to see what
the other systems have in store. A console simply can\'t survive with about 7 must have titles. and quite frankley,
i feel robbed

I believe that Rich hasn\'t set his standards too high, i feel the same..... TOTALLY!
I have more fun surfing the net and chatting to you guys. I have sold all my games and now only have GT3 and it\'s
getting a little tedious now. iv\'e gone through about 88% now so i\'ll see it through to the end.
but once that is done, i\'ll probably sell.

Just look at our conversion of Code Veronica. that\'s just a cheap cash in job:

The borders on the UK version are MASSIVE
The Graphics are lower resolution than that on DC
The Textures are Crap

Simply put, Capcom are bleeding us dry with **** conversions. SIMPLE

If i could be bothered to give you any more examples then i would. Rich knows what i\'m on about.

I honestly believe that a X-Box may be under my television by spring.

StAnZo

I hate topics about graphics...has there ever been a topic here when we debate the quality of gameplay which is all that SHOULD matter?

We\'re debating both. Come on, don\'t kid yourself. What would you rather play here in 2001? A game with so-so graphics and good gameplay, or an equally good game with great graphics? Graphics does matter, to a certain point. No one is interested in a great looking game without good gameplay (Bouncer) but good visuals is one of the ingredients in a good game. If I hear the "graphics doesn\'t matter" argument one more time I think I\'m gonna puke.

Originally posted by Samwise
We\'re debating both. Come on, don\'t kid yourself. What would you rather play here in 2001? A game with so-so graphics and good gameplay, or an equally good game with great graphics? Graphics does matter, to a certain point. No one is interested in a great looking game without good gameplay (Bouncer) but good visuals is one of the ingredients in a good game. If I hear the "graphics doesn\'t matter" argument one more time I think I\'m gonna puke.

But graphics don\'t matter.  It is ALL about gameplay.  I have been waiting for a developer to make another 2D Contra game, or another 2D Blaster Master game, but it just hasn\'t happened.  Most developers are just following the high-polygon-count trend, which IMO, is really hurting the gaming industry.  Graphics do not matter.  It is all about the gameplay.

I\'ve been reading this forum for a while now, but this topic finally got me to post.

Yes GT3 is a fine game, but let\'s face it, racing games are easy to make (graphics wise).  Slap a shiny texture on a mostly blocky object (because cars are blocky objects) and you have a convincing looking car.  Organic objects (eg people) are troublesome because of their inherent complexity and this is where PS2 fails IMO.

The games haven\'t impressed me (graphically).  I feel I am a victim of hype and am part of a money making scam.

It seems to me that Sony got arrogant after PSX.  I hope they get tossed on their ass so they come out swinging again for round 3.

Does it really need to be argued? DC vs PS2?  There should be no argument at all--the PS2 should be the clear winner in terms of graphics and framerate.  But an argument can be made (although with concessions) and that in itself is a failing on the part of the PS2.  We were promised the next generation, and we got a DC with less innovation and slightly better graphics.  Sigh.

And I\'m insulted that some people here think it is fine that we should have to wait 2 years before we finally get good looking games.  What kind of apathy is this?  If you bought a porsche, but it couldn\'t drive over 100 for the first two years would you be content?

I seem more upset with sony than I actually am, but I just wanted to get some things off my mind.

An interesting line caught my attention, and I think I agree:

I may be looking at a certain black box come spring.

Originally posted by IronFist
But graphics don\'t matter.  It is ALL about gameplay.  I have been waiting for a developer to make another 2D Contra game, or another 2D Blaster Master game, but it just hasn\'t happened.  Most developers are just following the high-polygon-count trend, which IMO, is really hurting the gaming industry.  Graphics do not matter.  It is all about the gameplay.

I partly disagree. Of course gameplay is the most important, but I sure as h3ll don\'t want to play a new game with 1980-graphics 20 years after. If people are talented enough making good games with good graphics shouldn\'t be much of a problem. I don\'t want a compromise for my 50 bucks! I want good gameplay and good graphics (along with good sound etc. of course). I\'ll say it again: Graphics does matter. Just not alone.

But graphics don\'t matter. It is ALL about gameplay.

I\'m gonna have to disagree. If it was all about gameplay, then we should stick to our Super Nintendo games. Consoles evolve, graphics are supposed to get better, and along that, comes enhancements and innovations to gameplay. (hopefully) .. This \'graphics\' don\'t matter is BS. Sure, gameplay is a must, but eye-candy is what new power is used for... otherwise consoles would never die.

Don\'t get the wrong idea, I don\'t want games to be like The Bouncer, but if you think graphics don\'t matter, you\'re just kidding yourselves.

/ dm /

Last E3 people said PS2, GC and Xbox were at the same level of graphics..

Maybe you should lower your expectations.. And stop looking at the specs..

Thats what I think..
I think there are alot of great looking PS2 titles out there (titles that spank most of the games out there! if not all of them!).. And alot more of them are coming.. (please dont make me post pics. Cuz I dont want it to turn into a pic vs pic debate!)

i\'m trying to think of a way to approach this "debate," even though it is just a difference of opinion, but for the life of me, I can\'t think of a single thing to say that hasn\'t already been primarily said.  I just want to clarify a few points about the PS2:

Sad fact: If you expect all XB games or PS2 games or GCN games to have the look of DOA3, Rogue Leader 2, Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X, Waverace: BS, or Project EGO, you need to stop using the drugs and smell the coffee.  Every system will have their fair share of Superman 64 caliber titles.  That should be enough to end the debate there about graphics... but I won\'t let it go THAT easy.

Sad Fact:  Even though certain games will be high in polygon counts and utilize all these made up Nvidia buzz words and constantly compare themselves to Toy Story real-time graphics, a lot of people will still enjoy a good 2D games.  Example: Capcom Vs SNK 2.  Example, although built with polygons but still fought on a relatively 2D plane, Super Smash Bros Melee.  Example: Capcom Vs SNK 3.  3D graphics allow for new things and new styles of gameplay, but 2D is still going to be great even since it has been left in the dust since last generation.

Sad Fact:  In 4 years, no one will care which game looked better.  Instead, the greatness of a console will be judged by the amount of GREAT games available for it.  Unfortunately, I can\'t see DOA3 being wowed over 4 years from now for its astounding gameplay much like Soul calibur or Tekken or VF is today.  The games that look great and play poorly will be remembered as that.  They will never be considered to be among the consoles GREAT titles, but rather the consoles blunders.

Happy Fact:  It all gets better from here.  Graphics and new innovative gameplay ideas can only come from poor graphics and poor gameplay ideas.  Once companies understand that having great graphics is only a small portion of having a great game, they will understand what it is they should focus on.  Once gameplay is the main basis for designing a game -- then games will continue to improve graphically and gameplay wise.

When it is all said and done, four years from now, we will see which system truly had the better offering for gaming enthusiasts around the world.

Seems the debate has changed again, now its gameplay vs graphics. Well fair enough gameplay is the one main factor that should never be left till the end, lets face it, no brownie points for stating that.

However if graphics ment nothing then we would all be emulator fanatics. What would be the point in buying new consoles when technically all they can offer are better graphics.

No Samwise is correct on this. You buy a new console you want decent graphics, so much so, you feel a bit peeved when your new console which you have bought - prehaps due to the hype - is producing shoddy looking games.

Thats one of the reasons I started this debate. My opinion the PS2 has shown us nothing in terms of graphical cababilities. The fact that GT3 has been released along with the demo of MGS2 and everyone keeps quoting these games as gold is even more anonying. Fair enough 2 good looking games - over a year its taken. Is that really the power you expected from a new PS2 ? For me no! It isn\'t unfortunatly.

Even with these two games - i\'ve seen them running in real life. They have their flaws. Its even more sad that people herald these games as some amazing achievement. Yeah they look great but shorely games like this should be the norm on this console not the extremely rare?

Originally posted by Samwise
We\'re debating both. Come on, don\'t kid yourself. What would you rather play here in 2001? A game with so-so graphics and good gameplay, or an equally good game with great graphics? Graphics does matter, to a certain point. No one is interested in a great looking game without good gameplay (Bouncer) but good visuals is one of the ingredients in a good game. If I hear the "graphics doesn\'t matter" argument one more time I think I\'m gonna puke.

I never said "graphics don\'t matter". I\'m just saying there are NEVER any topics about gameplay itself. Graphics can only go so far until you crave for better gameplay. I was just disgustid how some people here were acting like PS2 is a total disapointment all because of the graphics. I\'d be fine if they said they were disapointed because of the crappy games, but unfortuately it\'s the other way around.

As for your question, of course I\'m going to take the better looking game. But if it was a great looking game with so-so gameplay and an ok looking game with great gameplay then you know which one I\'m taking.

/goes back to playing best game of all time, Mario 3

Even with these two games - i\'ve seen them running in real life. They have their flaws. Its even more sad that people herald these games as some amazing achievement. Yeah they look great but shorely games like this should be the norm on this console not the extremely rare?

I hate answering posts by quoting myself, but here goes:

Sad fact: If you expect all XB games or PS2 games or GCN games to have the look of DOA3, Rogue Leader 2, Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy X, Waverace: BS, or Project EGO, you need to stop using the drugs and smell the coffee. Every system will have their fair share of Superman 64 caliber titles. That should be enough to end the debate there about graphics... but I won\'t let it go THAT easy.

Ryu: I agree with you..

Look at Xbox.. Not all games are pretty. (remember that fighting game.. lol!)
Same goes for PS2 and GC.. (of course!)

Well, I agree PS2 graphics are dissappointing, but one game no one mentions-ZOE-has truly amazing graphics compared to anything else in my opinion (shame about the gamesplay!) Yes, that is including Gt3. It is super fast, has highly detailed Robots, backrounds, and wonderful special effects whizzing across the screen, all fatser than the eye can blink (well, almost.)