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Author Topic: Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate  (Read 5286 times)

Offline Watchdog
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2001, 06:32:08 AM »
The DC was great right from the start.  Great games great graphics.  It was always great.  It still is great.  There are far more good games for the DC than the PS2.  This is why the PS2 is a dissappointment, both graphically and in terms of gameplay.
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Offline Knotter8
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2001, 07:27:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Watchdog
The DC was great right from the start.  Great games great graphics.  It was always great.  It still is great.  There are far more good games for the DC than the PS2.  This is why the PS2 is a dissappointment, both graphically and in terms of gameplay.


Yeah you\'re right Watchdog, DC\'s Great with a big G, but also Dead as a Dodo with a big D !:laughing:
C\'mon were do you come from bashing the PS2 with 5 posts.
My view - things are more complex in the 128 bit era
             - PS2 is somewhat difficult, though with big potential.
             - things can only get better.
Like Ryu said, theres\' still lotsa time left for improvement in PS2\'s
lifecycle.

Knotter8
\"Enemy show me what you wanna be, I can handle anything even if I can\'t handle you !\"

Offline Watchdog
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2001, 05:06:44 PM »
What does the # of posts matter?  I can\'t have an opinion because I haven\'t posted here often?

hmm.

Anyway, the DC isn\'t dead because of a lack of quality software.  I was making the subtle point that if gameplay was all that mattered the DC would still be around.  Furthermore, Games do not sell a system, hype sells a system.  Games sell a system 2 or three years after launch..

I have enjoyed a few PS2 games, but none of them have been innovative or "new".  Do I regret it?  Tough to answer, and I\'ll give it some more time.
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Offline QuDDus
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2001, 05:23:00 PM »
YALL NEED TO QUIT WHINNING NO console has ever given you all top notch games. And ps2 titles have been impressive grahics wise. bOUNCER,NBA STREETS, DOA, TTT, TMB, RED FACTION, MADDEN....ect...ect.. Most of all the psx bandwaggon jumpers jumped on psx in it\'s late days when good games where coming out. They where not there in it\'s early years.

So when ps2 dropped they expected to see all AAA titles in it\'s first year:rolleyes:
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Offline wiseboy
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2001, 06:04:49 PM »
When the PS2 first came out I was one of the suckers who got caught up in the hype. However after coming back down to earth, I have been able to appreciate what the console has achieved so far. Is it what I expected? No? Am I disappointed? Maybe. All I know is that I don\'t think I\'ve played a PS2 game that has made me say, "Damn. These graphics are crap!"  As a matter of fact, its been more of the opposite for me.

IMO to say the graphics are crap is a bit strong. I think people have to ask themselves, Am I saying this game is crap because it\'s not living up to the original hyped up expectations or is it really.... crap ? IMO crap means a game that looks so bad that I can\'t even take the time to appreciate what the game offers (i.e gameplay, sroryline, etc...). People know when a game looks like crap. It\'s just something you notice right away. I think it\'s almost similar to buying new clothes. Whether it be a shirt, pair of pants, or whatever.....if you see something that looks ugly you know it and  you ask yourself, "Well why did they even bother!?" I don\'t think the PS2 has a game that makes me ask this question.

I mean does NBA street, Red faction, ZOE, Onimusha, Tekken tag, Timesplitters or SSX look like crap? Sure they each have their graphical weak points but does this mean the game looks like crap? It\'s simple. If you have these high expectations of what you think the console should be dishing out, then just about every game will be judged in this mentally hyped framework.
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Offline fastson
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #65 on: September 10, 2001, 11:51:00 PM »
Games like Rune have crap graphics..

But hardley ALL ps2 games have crappy graphics..

Oh and I mostley agree with wiseboy!
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Offline Watchdog
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2001, 04:48:50 AM »
No the graphics aren\'t crap--youar making too fine a point of everything said.

Gamers were promised a revolution.  Promised by Sony.  There has been no revolution.  There has been excuses and delays, and uninspired games for the most part.

And the PS1 had great games in the first year.  Wipeout and demolition derby were a great leap ahead, were fresh, and lots of fun to play.  We also had Tomb Raider when it was actually good.  I\'m sure I can dig out my old games and name some more, but I think I\'ve already proven my point.  The PS1 always had good games, that\'s why it survived and eventually thrived in the market.  

Don\'t revise history to prove a point I guess is all I\'m saying.
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Offline RichG
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2001, 01:11:15 PM »
Yeah some more interesting points rasied.

When I created the topic title I shouldn\'t have said "Why are the PS2s graphics cr@p?" as though it was a fact - since the whole thing was a debate. However I did it as I know it would have flared a few people up to respond. If I had just put a standard topic like "Im disapointed are you?", would it have gotten the same amount of reponses - which for the majority are good ones too?

About the PS1 vs PS2. People seem to think that the PS2 is like the PS1 in terms of them sharing a first bad year - if your opinion is that the PS2 has had a bad year. Like Watchdog though I don\'t share that opinion. Did the PS1 really have a bad first year. If you ask me, no it didn\'t! Lots of innovating games, original titles and good gameplay. Also the Saturn didn\'t last too long so the PS1\'s first year must have played a big part in that.

Again Watchdog makes a valid point. When games are so unoriginal - lets face it the majority of PS2 games have been - then its easier to notice that the graphics might not be great either. Most people either think that a console has great games and great graphics or bad games and bad graphics - rarely a positive and a negative opinion. So yeah I think its fair to say that some of my quibbles with the PS2s graphical capabilities might be from me not being so pleased with the PS2s lack of innovation and great games.

So Watchdog welcome to the board. :)

Offline Watchdog
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2001, 05:00:00 PM »
Thanks Rich.

And let me say, I always approach console specific boards with much skepticism because usually they are rife with fanboys and flamers, but I must say this is the most open-minded and intelligent board I\'ve ever been to.

People here have OPINIONS and are allowed to write them without the worry (or should I say certainty) of being flamed.  It\'s a nice refreshing change.
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Offline QuDDus
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2001, 05:23:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RichGUK
Yeah some more interesting points rasied.

About the PS1 vs PS2. People seem to think that the PS2 is like the PS1 in terms of them sharing a first bad year - if your opinion is that the PS2 has had a bad year. Like Watchdog though I don\'t share that opinion. Did the PS1 really have a bad first year. If you ask me, no it didn\'t! Lots of innovating games, original titles and good gameplay. Also the Saturn didn\'t last too long so the PS1\'s first year must have played a big part in that.


uMM PSx FIRST YEAR HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SATURN. Um when psx first launched it was 299.99. And it hardly had impressive games on it.  And the sales where not massive. Psx sold all those millions of consoles in it\'s later days. Sega reputation killed the saturn ppl did not want to give sega the chance. And if I am correct didn\'t sony get in stores before sega??
 
Quote
Originally posted by RichGUK

Again Watchdog makes a valid point. When games are so unoriginal - lets face it the majority of PS2 games have been - then its easier to notice that the graphics might not be great either. Most people either think that a console has great games and great graphics or bad games and bad graphics - rarely a positive and a negative opinion. So yeah I think its fair to say that some of my quibbles with the PS2s graphical capabilities might be from me not being so pleased with the PS2s lack of innovation and great games.
So Watchdog welcome to the board. :)


And this hardly something you can just put on PS2.  There is not one other console that gives all original and innovative games. We get are share of crappy titles from them all. So don\'t try and put ps2 to on front because it is not the only that puts out crap.
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Offline RichG
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2001, 05:40:51 PM »
Saturn out or not, PSXs first year will have been influencial even if its just for the sole reason that a first year can make or break a console.

As for me putting the no innovation label all on PS2, don\'t jump the gun! You don\'t know my opinion on X-Box, Gamecube and Dreamcast where innovation is concerned. Since this is a debate about PS2s I simply stated my opinion on that console alone.

As for the death of the saturn - Sega\'s reputation probably caused them trouble later down the line - the dreamcast. During the Saturn period Sega had previously had the Genesis / Mega-drive which done well. Ignoring the add-on\'s (not full consoles) of Sega CD and 32x.

Thus Sega\'s reputation wasn\'t too bad. Lack of gaming rights - EA titles, Tomb Raider and Resident Evil past the first ones in the series and lack of advertising is what caused the Saturn to die. Not to mention that it was hard to program for and weaker in comparasion to the PS1.

Offline QuDDus
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #71 on: September 11, 2001, 05:53:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RichGUK
Saturn out or not, PSXs first year will have been influencial even if its just for the sole reason that a first year can make or break a console.

As for me putting the no innovation label all on PS2, don\'t jump the gun! You don\'t know my opinion on X-Box, Gamecube and Dreamcast where innovation is concerned. Since this is a debate about PS2s I simply stated my opinion on that console alone.

As for the death of the saturn - Sega\'s reputation probably caused them trouble later down the line - the dreamcast. During the Saturn period Sega had previously had the Genesis / Mega-drive which done well. Ignoring the add-on\'s (not full consoles) of Sega CD and 32x.

Thus Sega\'s reputation wasn\'t too bad. Lack of gaming rights - EA titles, Tomb Raider and Resident Evil past the first ones in the series and lack of advertising is what caused the Saturn to die. Not to mention that it was hard to program for and weaker in comparasion to the PS1.


Man your jumping thie gun...PSX CAME IN 95 AND MADDEN DID NOT COME OUT FOR PSx TIL 97. Buy then Saturn had already headed down hill. You would be suprise how 2 failing projects impacted sega reputation. Your naming games thAT came late.

Nobody wanted to give sega a second chance.  I myself fell to this bug I was still had 32max and sega cd in my head. Just like millions more and sega was not given the proper respect they diserved because there where great titles on saturn.

Remember in 96 when sega offered 3 games with there system for 199.99 when sony was offering the psx all bye itself.
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Offline datamage
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2001, 02:17:32 AM »
Quote
And if I am correct didn\'t sony get in stores before sega??


No. SEGA came out with a surprise launch in May of \'95. While the PSX was launched in September.

/ dm /

Offline QuDDus
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2001, 02:56:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by datamage


No. SEGA came out with a surprise launch in May of \'95. While the PSX was launched in September.

/ dm /


Thanks I was not sure
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Offline RichG
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Why are PS2 Graphics Cr@p? - A Serious Debate
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2001, 05:50:22 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by QuDDus


Man your jumping thie gun...PSX CAME IN 95 AND MADDEN DID NOT COME OUT FOR PSx TIL 97. Buy then Saturn had already headed down hill. You would be suprise how 2 failing projects impacted sega reputation. Your naming games thAT came late.

Nobody wanted to give sega a second chance.  I myself fell to this bug I was still had 32max and sega cd in my head. Just like millions more and sega was not given the proper respect they diserved because there where great titles on saturn.

Remember in 96 when sega offered 3 games with there system for 199.99 when sony was offering the psx all bye itself.


Hmm I dunno what your getting at. PSX and Saturn was launched the same year. Thus my original comment still stands. PSXs first year would have been influencial in Saturn\'s death. Not the sole reason but certainly one of them.

Sega a second chance well thats all down to opinion. Unlike when the DC was launched, I remember the Saturn launch being quiet good. No one had comdemed Sega as such and there was a lot of hype and coverage. I recorn the no body wanted to give Sega any more chances was really shown during Dreamcast times.

Also whats Sega\'s pricing plan got to do with anything. The Gamecube is going to sell alot cheaper than what the X-Box will come launch time. Doesn\'t mean that it is a sign of Nintendo doing anything bad. In any sense it will be a good move.

 

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