X-Box will surprise you. I garrantee it.

IronFist, X-Box has been in my sights since I heard Panzer Dragoon was being made for it and DC wasn\'t being MADE.

PS2 offers me nothing besides Virtua Fighter 4, Spy Hunter (love this game), Headhunter (which I will have on DC), Rez (again on DC), and, ummmm...

X-Box gives me the Sega love that I deserve, and remember, I am first a Sega fanboy, and second a games player.


Eric Jacob

Yeah I played Spy Hunter and it was pretty fun.

Anyway, Bob I can\'t believe that you aren\'t driven by fanboyism.  

Bouncer?  LOL that was a terrible final Fight knock off.

J&D, while just recently started interesting me, does not have jaw dropping graphics.  Come on!  That games just doesn\'t stack up against RE (GC), FF, DOA3.  That is a biased comment and most people would agree with me (I think).  J&D does look good, but it does not astound.

Then you talk of innovation of goldeneye (PCs did it waaaay before) . From the videos and hand on reports from IGN it doesn\'t innovate.  Hm, a small contradiction.

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Xbox has never made my jaw drop graphically...ill tell you what has though...only three games in history...FFX, J&D and MGS2...no XBox or GC games have had that affect on me...and no fanboyism or anyone elses opinion can change that
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Also, IGN and Next Gen said that Halo and DOA3 are better than anything that has come before (including and named TTT, T4, Goldeneye, Unreal, Quake) it in terms of both gameplay and graphics.  You don\'t get the two biggest names in VG review saying that without innovating.  You are closing you eyes to the truth.



________________
its your opinion, and you obviously recognise it, which therefore means it really doesnt have much place in this post for your arguement. but remember, playing the a demo of a game that half the reason its good is the atmosphere, at the store with bright lights and lots of people, isnt right. turn the lights of, seclude yourself in your room, and absorb the game
________________

IGN has room in my argument because everyone here idolizes it so it is fair game.  Try to keep things logical.  And yes I can say if a game is good if I play it at EB or not.  Absorb the game?  LOL.

__________
as soon as it does/gets something nice, i will compliment it, as it stands it does not interest me...and thats my opinion, not just my fanobyism for PS2 talking.
_________


Uh-huh. OK.

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thats great, but dont go around calling pepole liars because their opinion differs to yours
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This is what I\'m unsure about...

[Bobs_Hardware]

Bouncer? LOL that was a terrible final Fight knock off.

pfft, thats what peoples problems are...they are treating it like an action game, or an RPG...treat it like a fightting game...the single player is better than any fighting game, it actually has a good storyline...PLUS, its my singler fav. multiplayer game ever...get three friends over, and....ahhh

J&D, while just recently started interesting me, does not have jaw dropping graphics. Come on! That games just doesn\'t stack up against RE (GC), FF, DOA3. That is a biased comment and most people would agree with me (I think). J&D does look good, but it does not astound.

if later on we find out that RE was not prerenderred, then it will jump ahead of J&D, until then, fraid not...its awwwweeeesome, the amount of interaction, and entire world rederred at one time, beeaaauuutiful

Then you talk of innovation of goldeneye (PCs did it waaaay before) . From the videos and hand on reports from IGN it doesn\'t innovate. Hm, a small contradiction.

huh??  Goldeneye redefined console FPS\'s...and toa  degree, PC FPS\'s...its not my fav. game, but thats a fact i cant deny

Also, IGN and Next Gen said that Halo and DOA3 are better than anything that has come before (including and named TTT, T4, Goldeneye, Unreal, Quake) it in terms of both gameplay and graphics. You don\'t get the two biggest names in VG review saying that without innovating. You are closing you eyes to the truth.

did you miss my point about how when FF8 was released, it was being hailed as the greatest game of all time???  think about it  

IGN has room in my argument because everyone here idolizes it so it is fair game. Try to keep things logical. And yes I can say if a game is good if I play it at EB or not. Absorb the game? LOL.

IGN is so big, and they get everything first...people dont exactly idolize it.  And i think, unless its a FPS or sports game, you CANNOT tell how good a game is at the store playing it for half an hour or so...give me a break

This is what I\'m unsure about...

WatchDog said:
Anyone that says the xbox doesn\'t impress you visually is lying and clinging too dearly to his PS2.

unsure?

I\'m unsure that you\'ll ever say anything compromising about the PS2 and positive about the xbox--that\'s what I\'m unsure about.

Goldeneye innovated nothing.  Zip.  Unless you count 4 way split screen an innovation.  PCs did it all, long before goldeneye.  That point is completely off.  And then you say it redefined PC FPS?!?  This is a completely uninformed statement.  You tell me one thing that Goldeneye brought to the FPS genre?  Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Teamfortress made Goldeneye possible for God\'s sake.  Please stop this ridiculous argument because while this may be your opinion, it is uninformed and completely without merit. Goldeneye is subpar as a FPS by PC standards.  It is a heck of a lot of fun with 3 buddies though (almost any FPS is though)  and that is the only reason it is a classic.

I treated bouncer like a fighting game because that\'s what it is (who the hell thinks it\'s an RPG?!?!).  It\'s like my ex girlfriend: beautiful, boring, and shallow.  You are the only person I have ever heard that said it was the best anything, let alone multiplayer game lol.  Come on!

And I must insist, while a sharp looking and potentially a good platformer, J&D\'s visuals are not the best of the best.  It\'s just not that good.  There has to be something "new" (not a collection of things borrowed from sonic, mario or crash).  RE has those slightly grainy, crazy looking backgrounds (there is no good reason to doubt that it isn\'t real time--people who think it is are xbox and PS2 fanboys and are wishing it is true.  I\'m not saying it is definately, but every indication we have points that it is real time.)  DOA3\'s visuals are probably the best graphics I\'ve ever seen.  There is no one area that I can look at and say--oops it slips a little there.  I am not alone, actually, it\'s practically unanimous.  MGS2 is slick, fast and gorgeous.  Not much else needs to be said about this game because it\'s all been said.  There are 3 titles from three different platforms that make J&D unspectacular by comparison.  It is a good looking game, no doubt, but you stretch it too far and it is ridiculous.

Half an hour is plenty of time to judge.  When I\'m reading a book I generally know by page 50 if I\'m going to like it or not.  If I\'m playing a game, if it hasn\'t caught my attention after a half hour then I can pretty safely make a judgement.  Just because you can\'t doesn\'t mean others also can not.  If this were the case then why are these companies spending millions to get these things out to stores?

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by Watchdog
I\'m unsure that you\'ll ever say anything compromising about the PS2 and positive about the xbox--that\'s what I\'m unsure about.

no need to be unsure, when PS2 does something ****, or gets **** games, i call it like it is...just because im arguing against you in this thread, doesnt mean i wont be arguing with you in the next thread...so dont pass me off as a complete fanboy straight away...there are many people who agree with me, and some have even statred so in this thread, opinions are a wonderful thing

Goldeneye innovated nothing.  Zip.  Unless you count 4 way split screen an innovation.  PCs did it all, long before goldeneye.  That point is completely off.  And then you say it redefined PC FPS?!?  This is a completely uninformed statement.  You tell me one thing that Goldeneye brought to the FPS genre?  Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, Teamfortress made Goldeneye possible for God\'s sake.  Please stop this ridiculous argument because while this may be your opinion, it is uninformed and completely without merit. Goldeneye is subpar as a FPS by PC standards.  It is a heck of a lot of fun with 3 buddies though (almost any FPS is though)  and that is the only reason it is a classic.

bull****, plain and simple...it has been the basis for copying, and the basis of the styles of almost every FPS and some third person shooters (i.e. Syphon Filter) ever since it came out (Medal of Honour anyone?) Goldeneye\'s ideas are used in multiple games on multiple systems and genres.  It was the first real game that wasnt just point and shoot, not just find a key by blasting away as many enemies as possible and reaching the door to finish.  It had multiple objectives, required thought, and planned attacks, and at that point the AI was unfeard of...and has heavily influenced almost all modern day action games

I treated bouncer like a fighting game because that\'s what it is (who the hell thinks it\'s an RPG?!?!).  It\'s like my ex girlfriend: beautiful, boring, and shallow.  You are the only person I have ever heard that said it was the best anything, let alone multiplayer game lol.  Come on!

you ever played it three player man?  that ****ing kicks ass man, its fast, furious and non-stop action that comes down to the wire almost every single time, its awesome

And I must insist, while a sharp looking and potentially a good platformer, J&D\'s visuals are not the best of the best.  It\'s just not that good.  There has to be something "new" (not a collection of things borrowed from sonic, mario or crash).  RE has those slightly grainy, crazy looking backgrounds (there is no good reason to doubt that it isn\'t real time--people who think it is are xbox and PS2 fanboys and are wishing it is true.  I\'m not saying it is definately, but every indication we have points that it is real time.)  DOA3\'s visuals are probably the best graphics I\'ve ever seen.  There is no one area that I can look at and say--oops it slips a little there.  I am not alone, actually, it\'s practically unanimous.  MGS2 is slick, fast and gorgeous.  Not much else needs to be said about this game because it\'s all been said.  There are 3 titles from three different platforms that make J&D unspectacular by comparison.  It is a good looking game, no doubt, but you stretch it too far and it is ridiculous.

different people see J&D differently, there are many people who agree it is one of the thruely great looking games, and their are many people who think its just good...and there are those who think its ugly...you can think whaqt you want, but the size of those envorionments, at 60 fps, as silky smooth as it is is just....*thinks up word he hasnt used already* sensational    and personally, i rate it above (only margainly) the excellent DoA3...which is a fighting game, to a platformer  

Unanomous?  come on...in XBox circles you are Unanomous...you are unanomous in thinking it is a great looking game, not in thinking it is THE great looking game, get over yourself

Half an hour is plenty of time to judge.  When I\'m reading a book I generally know by page 50 if I\'m going to like it or not.  If I\'m playing a game, if it hasn\'t caught my attention after a half hour then I can pretty safely make a judgement.  Just because you can\'t doesn\'t mean others also can not.  If this were the case then why are these companies spending millions to get these things out to stores?

you can usually tell if the games going to be good, but if the start is slow, and you give up, there is the chance that you will like it...i know many a people who hate the starts of most games (ie. Final Fantasy, Zelda etc) and who never wanted to play it again, until i made em sit down and play it, and those games turned into their all time fav\'s.  But you cant play a game with that sort of atmosphere for half an hour, and then totally agree with a reviewer who has played the game inside and out (assuming he has) and judged it thouroughly

spy hunter is great on two-player. No doubt.

I don\'t get why people think J&D looks so good. I think with a few more polygons, Sonic Adventure 2 would look just as good, and much faster.


Eric Jacob

So much to reply to, so little time.

Originallly posted by Ddaryl:

according to reports Xbox has more pre-orders then GC in the US and that says alot about the true feelings of gamers.

The GCN pre-order campaign has yet to start at many places.  When it does, I\'ll be sure to keep a close eye on the pre-sales of both consoles even though I\'m sure both will sell out regardless.

Originally posted by AlteredBeast:

I don\'t think the launch looks too nice, but what is coming after is making me buy it at launch

What is coming AFTER launch is what is making me wait a year.  GCN looks like the better buy for me at the time.  Rest assured though, I will have the X-Box a year from now.

Originally posted by Watchdog:

Anyone that says the xbox doesn\'t impress you visually is lying and clinging too dearly to his PS2. That is a fact. The xbox has amazing graphics, better than anything anywhere.

Why is it that when a person does not appreciate what someone else appreciates, they are a fanboy?  I\'m not saying that the X-Box is not visually impressive with a FEW of its titles, but to degrade everyone\'s opinion to a fanboy opinion simply because they don\'t see what you see is pretty idiotic.  I know people who think Corvette\'s are ugly or that cupcakes do not taste very good, but does that mean they are fanboy\'s of Ford and Little Debbie?  Come on man.  Wise up.

If anyone here says they are not impressed by xbox and has either Tekken or Timesplitters/Goldeneye then again I would say you are being unfair. The review from the lauded IGN (why does everyone here hang on their every word?) has done nothing but praise these two games calling them the best of the genre ever.

IGN is revered here because no other site matches it in terms of content.  However, if Gamespot happens to stumble on something decent, we gobble it up here as well.  IGN just seems to have their fingers on the pulse of the industry and their opinions reflects that of many people here.  If you don\'t like them, that\'s fine, but them a multi-console site that is as credible if not moreso then IGN.

All the negativity surrounding the xbox around here seems like fear and jealousy for the most part. You know it won\'t hurt your PS2\'s feelings if you actually say nice things about another console.

Generalizing us all into fanboys is pretty pathetic considering the forum you\'re on.  Last time I checked, this was psx2central.com, not multi-console.com, but you are fairly quick to judge us all based on a few opinions.  That\'s almost as bad as generalizing an entire game with about 15 minutes of gameplay.  I\'ll tear into that in a minute though.

IGN has room in my argument because everyone here idolizes it so it is fair game. Try to keep things logical. And yes I can say if a game is good if I play it at EB or not. Absorb the game? LOL.

Just imagine if reviews were done this way.  Suppose for a second the reviewers picked up at one part of the game, the worst part of it as a matter of fact where you lost all your weapons or all your abilities or the ability to move as a part of the story and then suddenly you turned the machine off and decided to review it labeling it as the "worst game ever."  If anybody saw you as a reviewer doing that, they\'d throw your credibility out the window.  What if the ending of the game made you love it, or perhaps some deep plot element of the story, but you think that those things are moot based on 10 minutes of play time?  Who cares about the story and elements of a 60 hour RPG if I can write a review from 15 MINUTES of play!  You\'re a  genius.  No really, you are.  :rolleyes:

Half an hour is plenty of time to judge. When I\'m reading a book I generally know by page 50 if I\'m going to like it or not. If I\'m playing a game, if it hasn\'t caught my attention after a half hour then I can pretty safely make a judgement. Just because you can\'t doesn\'t mean others also can not. If this were the case then why are these companies spending millions to get these things out to stores?

Gee, that\'s real interesting and you wonder why IGN is applauded around here.  Mainly because they play the entire game, complete it, and then give their honest opinion.  Unlike Gamespot who has a tendency to write their reviews by the seat of their pants and pray what they are saying is accurate for the ENTIRE game, but I suppose that\'s why you question IGN\'s integrity right?

It\'s confusing to me how someone can pass judgement of the ENTIRE game based on one incredibly short rushed sitting.  I can just imagine your Einhander review and how you\'d repeat the same thing about the game over and over again completely ignoring the entire ending sequence.  Or perhaps your comments on just about any RPG or your comments on Virtua Fighter after only playing the "deepest fighter of all time" after 15 minutes of gameplay.  Please, spare us this boring rhetoric, you obviously have zero credibility with reviews if you think a game is going to be the same throughout after 15 minutes of play time.

I think with a few more polygons, Sonic Adventure 2 would look just as good, and much faster.

Just a few? :rolleyes: I\'ll leave SA2 alone Beasty, just for you.

/ dm /

Nice way to turn around all my points.  Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing.

____________________
Why is it that when a person does not appreciate what someone else appreciates, they are a fanboy? I\'m not saying that the X-Box is not visually impressive with a FEW of its titles, but to degrade everyone\'s opinion to a fanboy opinion simply because they don\'t see what you see is pretty idiotic. I know people who think Corvette\'s are ugly or that cupcakes do not taste very good, but does that mean they are fanboy\'s of Ford and Little Debbie? Come on man. Wise up.
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I never said all of xbox\'s software was visually unmatched.  Learn to read.  My responce was directed at those who said they had not been impressed at all by the graphics of the xbox.  This is fanboyism or that person is not impressed by any graphics, anywhere.  These are the only explanations I will accept.  And it is unanimous.  I have never read a credible source state that there isn\'t one single xbox game that is visualy impressive.  IGN and nextgen have both stated that halo and DOA3 are tops in terms of graphics and gameplay in their respective genres--that alone should be enough for most of us because we haven\'t played the games.  Even the official PS2 mag mentioned that the xbox is visually impressive but is shallow with gameplay (or something like that). This somehow always gets ignored.  Come on man. Wise up.

I NEVER said IGN wasn\'t credible. I had reservations with them leading up to the launch of the PS2 because every single day they posted some lame top ten list for reasons to buy the PS2.  It was obvious that their objectivity was wavering.  They are more fair now it seems.  You should read carefully, it would save me a lot of time.

___________________
Generalizing us all into fanboys is pretty pathetic considering the forum you\'re on.
___________________

Never said EVERYONE here were fanboys.  

______________________
Last time I checked, this was psx2central.com, not multi-console.com,
___________________

Hm, last time I checked this was console debating.  Reading isn\'t a strong suit for you is it?

_____________________
Just imagine if reviews were done this way. Suppose for a second the reviewers picked up at one part of the game, the worst part of it as a matter of fact where you lost all your weapons or all your abilities or the ability to move as a part of the story and then suddenly you turned the machine off and decided to review it labeling it as the "worst game ever." If anybody saw you as a reviewer doing that, they\'d throw your credibility out the window. What if the ending of the game made you love it, or perhaps some deep plot element of the story, but you think that those things are moot based on 10 minutes of play time? Who cares about the story and elements of a 60 hour RPG if I can write a review from 15 MINUTES of play! You\'re a genius. No really, you are.
___________________

Just imagine if you made up all kinds of stuff to support you pathetic arguments...oh wait you already do that.  How you know how I played the game is astonishing.  I played it from the start for about half an hour and watched it for a while longer (there was an impressive line up--the longest I\'ve seen at a kiosk).  From that time I was able to grasp the basic physics, mechanics and gameplay and realized that they really didn\'t do too much new.  I got a pretty good idea of how the game would play.  From this and from IGN\'s review I could piece together a pretty good idea of what that game could offer me.  Wouldn\'t you think?  I play games to actually play games.  I watch DVDs to watch movies and read books for stories.  Video games\' movies and stories, while nice and necessary, do not cut it when compared to these two mainstays (FF may come the closest).  It is a good game, but not exceptional.  What gets me is that you write two paragraphs on a broken statement I made in parenthesies that was not even close to the spirit of my post.  I never said it was a complete and thorough review.  It was a quick hands on that I\'ve seen countless times in many magazines.  You\'re an idiot.  No really you are.

___________________

Gee, that\'s real interesting and you wonder why IGN is applauded around here. Mainly because they play the entire game, complete it, and then give their honest opinion. Unlike Gamespot who has a tendency to write their reviews by the seat of their pants and pray what they are saying is accurate for the ENTIRE game, but I suppose that\'s why you question IGN\'s integrity right?

It\'s confusing to me how someone can pass judgement of the ENTIRE game based on one incredibly short rushed sitting. I can just imagine your Einhander review and how you\'d repeat the same thing about the game over and over again completely ignoring the entire ending sequence. Or perhaps your comments on just about any RPG or your comments on Virtua Fighter after only playing the "deepest fighter of all time" after 15 minutes of gameplay. Please, spare us this boring rhetoric, you obviously have zero credibility with reviews if you think a game is going to be the same throughout after 15 minutes of play time.
_______________

And even more crap about my broken sentence contained between parenthesies.  Get a life. See above, calm down, and pop a ridilin.  What made me laugh, and I have to thank you for this is this little gem: "Please, spare us this boring rhetoric, you obviously have zero credibility with reviews"  HaHaHaHa.  You call my little sentence fragment boring rhetoric and a review.  Too funny.  My god.  

Moving on...

Goldeneye revolutionized nothing.  There were hundreds of mods released for Quake long before GE was released that covered everything from covert operations to team-play to mindless killing. Halflife was 3 years in the making by the time GE was released,.  These are the games that refined and defined the FPS not GE.  Please stop this ridiculous argument.  GE is a classic, but it revolutionized nothing and it definately didn\'t do ANYTHING for the PC FPS save for a couple cool map ports.  GE set the bar for console shooters, I\'ll give you that.

Yes I\'ve played Bouncer with my brothers--we did only borrow it for a few days, but it really didn\'t entertain us for that long.

[Bobs_Hardware]

watchdog...you dont honestly believe that your winning these \'arguements\' do you???  

Hm, last time I checked this was console debating. Reading isn\'t a strong suit for you is it?

reading comprehenstion is a wonderful thing isnt it...you see, your doing the same things that your complaining Ryu and everyone else is doing...and your just plaing wrong, and not worth wasting arguementative time

i believe what Ryu was referring to was as to why their are so many strong PS2 supporters at these forums, not why you shouldnt be posting here, or whatever else you may be insinuating

Originally posted by Watchdog

 Even the official PS2 mag mentioned that the xbox is visually impressive but is shallow with gameplay (or something like that). This somehow always gets ignored.  Come on man. Wise up.

Oh man!  So if the Official Xbox magazine said the PS2 was visually impressive but shallow with gameplay you would take their word for it?

Watchdog, you are lucky that Ryu isn\'t here to reply to what you said.  I\'ll just leave it at that.

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by IronFist
Watchdog, you are lucky that Ryu isn\'t here to reply to what you said.  I\'ll just leave it at that.

Ryu was here, he just couldnt be bothered...lazy bastard  

What?!?  Why?  Am I supposed to be scared of Ryu?  Lol.  Why should anyone be hesitant to post their views?  I do not hate Ryu or even dislike him.  We are having a debate.  He mixed it up so I mixed it up in turn.  There should be no hard feelings or anamosity.

Winning this argument, I seem to think so.  On what point am I lacking?  

The point I was making about the Official PS2 mag was that even they think the xbox is impressive visually.  Meaning that you are bias if you don\'t think the xbox has impressive graphics.  That\'s it.  You don\'t have to like the games themselves, but to say that you don\'t think the graphics are impressive means you are lying to yourself (and everyone else) or you are not impressed by any graphics anywhere.  Game tastes are individual and vary greatly, and I can appreciate if people disagree about specific games, but this point is unarguable.  Do I take Official PS2 mag\'s word for it? No.  This is the same as any other source.  I collect as many opinions as I can and make a conclusion.  Relying on one source as gospel (eg IGN) is misguided, but when every reputable source says the xbox boasts unmatched graphics I tend to think it\'s true.

This is console debating.  This is where we are supposed to shed our console bias and talk about how differing consoles compare.  This is not PS2 vs the world or PS2 fanboys defend their systems without hesitation or logic.  That other stuff is for the main forum.  I do expect to find more PS2 owners here (hell I\'m one of them), but if they can\'t take hearing negative things about their beloved console then they shouldn\'t come here.  What part is confusing you Bob?  

I agree, SA2 needs a lot of polishing to match J&D visually.

"Not worth arguing?"  That\'s a good way to duck out.

Watchdog, I want to go through that reply you gave to Ryu and tell you why you are so wrong, but this debate is already dead.  There is so much garbage and so much confusion, it would take me hours to go through it all.  It\'s not even my argument, so I\'ll let someone else do it.

One thing I want to bring up is this.  I thought Ryu did a great job of explaining it to you, but you still don\'t seem to understand.  

Anyone that says the xbox doesn\'t impress you visually is lying and clinging too dearly to his PS2. That is a fact. The xbox has amazing graphics, better than anything anywhere.

First, read this link.

What exactly do you consider to be "amazing graphics."  What do the graphics need to be considered amazing?  Isn\'t it possible for your idea of amazing graphics to be different than mine?  For example, is it possible that I love the cel shaded look of the new Zelda and I think the graphics are amazing, but you don\'t?  Would that make me a Nintendo fanboy?  If I prefer the graphics of Soul Calibur 2 to the graphics of DOA3, would that make me a PS2 fanboy?

If I didn\'t like the graphics of any Xbox game, would that make me an Xbox hater?  Or would it mean that I have different tastes than you do...

Not all of us are easily impressed with high polygon counts.  Not all of us are impressed with far draw distances.  Not all of us are impressed with great animation, awesome particle effects, cool water/fire effects, brilliant textures, original graphical styles, etc.  Do you get what I\'m trying to say?  We all have different opinions of what "amazing graphics" are.  Just because someone\'s view is different than yours doesn\'t make them any kind of fanboy.