New DOA2, er, sorry, DOA3 impressions from Xbox.IGN.

Originally posted by QuDDus
Who said they would change the gameplay?

I\'m not asking for completely changed gameplay.  I\'m asking for more gameplay.  The makers can\'t bash Tekken 4 and Virtua Fighter 4 if their game is just a graphical enhancement of DOA2.  AFter all the mud they were slinging, I thought this game would be more than it is.

side note: Ironfist what are trying to do? I mean I know you want to play doa3, but you don\'t want to get xbox so you try and find anything that will say doa3 is just doa2 so you won\'t feel guilty for not getting it.. Oooh how sneaky shame on you:D

Correction: I did want DOA3.  Like I said, after all the mud slinging from developers, I was expecting a lot more.  I would rather wait for VF4 or Tekken 4 on the PS2 than spend $350 for that game.  Now there is no reason for me to even want an Xbox.  And hey, there\'s no reason for me to want a NGC either.  Neither one of them has anything I want.

The gameplay may make it simular to doa2 hc, but the moves, the graphics,the fast pace, and mulitiple arena\'s serperate it from doa2 hc. But it is still cheesy. [/B]

The moves?  So you\'re saying you played the game?  Tell us about all the new moves that make this game worth the name DOA3 instead of DOA2: Very Hardcore.  I\'ve seen over 30 movies, and read lots of impressions, and you are the first to even mention DOA3\'s "new moves."

Almost all the stages are stages from DOA2 with better graphics, or levels stolen from other games.  I\'m sorry, but I can\'t get excited about that.  

The pace looks just the same as DOA2.  The faster sidestep doesn\'t add a huge element to the game.  The only thing I see it doing is making the game even more turtle friendly.

Nice graphics though.  (and I just watched all 17 movies from IGN, and no, there are no reflections of the characters on the floor.  What happened?)

All that means is the move combinations and what not are the same. look at street fighter all there moves never change played one street fighter then you can play them all the gameplay never changes. Same with tekken. So don\'t piss on doa3. Because every other fighting series does the same damn thing.

I said this in another thread, but I\'ll repeat it here.

How similar was Street Fighter 3 to Street Fighter 2?  If you have played SF3, you would now that there is so little in common that you could easily mistake SF3 for a game other than Street Fighter.  Don\'t give me that "Steet Fighter has been the same for years" nonsense.  Street Fighter 2 has had tons of versions.  It was ok to have little gameplay changes if the name of the game is still the same: Street Fighter 2.  DOA2 had 3 different versions, and they were almost identicle, and that\'s ok because they were not claiming to be a whole new game.  But when you add that 3 on the end, there should be changes to go along with it.

And speaking of comparing Street Fighter to DOA.  Street Fighter is the most popular 2D franchise ever.  DOA is not even close to as popular.  Capcom knows that we will buy the next Street Fighter, even if it is Street Fighter 2 Super Hyper Turbo Plus.  But DOA doesn\'t have that huge userbase.  The makers of DOA should know that they can\'t have upgrades of games and expect them to be popular with so much competition in the 3D fighting game genre.

How long have you been playing Tekken?

Tekken 1 to Tekken 2:  Huge upgrade.  Moves, characters, gameplay, graphics, levels, costumes.  Just about everything was changed.
Tekken 2 to Tekken 3:  Again, huge upgrade.  Same as above.
Tekken 3 to TTT:  Minor upgrade (moves, tag feature, costumes, levels, graphics), but notice the lack of a number on the end.  This isn\'t the next game of the series.  It\'s an intermission to make the fans happy.
TTT to Tekken 4:  Huge changes.  Moves, costumes, characters, GAMEPLAY, graphics, levels (every level is new).  This is the biggest change in Tekken ever, which is why so many people don\'t like it (just go over to the TZ forums and see what I mean).

Watchdog,

In case you missed it, here\'s a quote that was curiously omitted from your post:

I gave the link so you could read the full impressions on your own.  And yes, this thread was to point out the bad of DOA3, hence the title.

IGN
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"[Tomonobu Itagaki] talks trash about Tekken and boasts his game as the best 3D fighting game. And after spending a few sleepless nights with our version of Dead Or Alive 3, I\'m inclined to agree with Mr. Itagaki that DOA3 is by far the most entertaining fighting game I\'ve played and one that comes with a good number of play options.

As I stated before in previous write-ups, the control in DOA3 is so responsive, it\'s almost as if the game is reading your thoughts

DOA3 is one of the most responsive 3D fighting games I\'ve played.

We\'ll be back with more preview updates on what\'s looking to be the best 3D fighting game ever. "
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How credible is this guy?  I posted in my thread things that he wanted to bash, but he wasn\'t able to do it because his love of the graphics and I\'m assuming love of the Xbox.  If VF4, T4, SC2, or any other good fighting game was coming to the Xbox, do you think his impressions of this game would be the same?

You forgot about these I\'ll assume. And it\'s entirely likely that the pics of the reflections in the ice level was from a version further along than the IGN preview version--same goes for the water effects.

The pictures I saw were from months ago.  We will see when the game is released if the reflections were just something to get people excited for their game and not really in their game, or if they are in a newer version.

that aquarium stage looks awesome...
cant wait to play this one.

He didn\'t bash DOA3 at all.  I like the way you dismiss his opinion so easily.  Even after THE two biggest names in video game review (IGN and NextGen) have said that it is the best 3d fighter ever you still cling to you desperate attempt to bash xbox.  You Sir, are the one that lacks objectivity.

No new stages?  Not exactly new (but give me one NEW idea--there aren\'t any, everything has been done), but what they have done to the evironments is new.  They are HUGE (some of them anyway), they have all kinds of interactivity (trees, posts etc) and all kinds of break away areas--granted some of this is in previous DOA games, but it is still DOA unique.

SF3 didn\'t change the basics.  The first time I played it, it did feel wierd, but I was able to be competitive if not competent with a friend of mine who had experience playing it.  It\'s not like I had to learn a whole new game--many of the motions were the same, and the physics were tweeked just a little, blocking etc.  There is more in common than not.

And the Tekken  series has not advanced as much as you say.  It underwent some radical changes after the first but after that you exaggerate the truth.  

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Moves, characters, gameplay, graphics, levels, costumes.
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I\'m sure DOA3 has new moves--the lastest write up says so.  There are new characters too.  Gameplay has been tweeked--still uncertain how much.  And, it\'s my feeling that DOA2 was close to being a solid 3D fighter--with just a few changes and tweeks in the right direction and it would be great--maybe they\'ve done that.  Graphics have taken a huge step up.  Levels, there are "new" levels, but originality is a question--see above.  Yes there are new costumes too.  What is your point?

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I gave the link so you could read the full impressions on your own. And yes, this thread was to point out the bad of DOA3, hence the title.
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Yes you quoted some of the "problems" of DOA3, but what you did is a fragmented quotation and therefore misrepresentation.  Movies promos do it all the time.  A commercial for Godzilla said: "Roger Ebert says Godzilla is \'original and exciting\'".  In fact, Roger Ebert said: "Godzilla is a waste of time and nothing about it is original or exciting".  This isn\'t exactly what was said, but the thrust of the quotes are accurate.  The makers of Godzilla used what RE said, SELECTED quotes and took them out of context so to misconstrue RE\'s true feelings about the movie

You did essencially the same thing in your post--you took quotes out of context and twisted them around misleading everyone here into thinking that IGN did not like the game.  When in fact they said it was perfect and, I\'ll say it again, "the best 3d fighter of all time."

Watchdog your right from most of the reviews.  They been saying doa3 is mind-blowing and as well an awesome 3d fighter.  I thought doa2 played good so 3 playing similar is a good thing to me.:thepimp:

Now you are putting words in my mouth.  I never said IGN didn\'t like it.  All I said is Xbox.ign wouldn\'t bash the game even if it sucked.  I\'ll post these two things again:

Although it\'s not difficult at all to play DOA3 with the large Xbox controller, sometimes it can be aggravating pushing the proper buttons since all the main face button are pretty close to the Right Analog stick.

There are instances where some visual effects seem to be missing; for example, there are splash effects when you enter the water but the water doesn\'t ripple every time you move. Also, in the Ice Caves level there\'s no reflection of the characters on the reflective ice floor.

See, he knows there are some problems, but he is trying to cover them up by saying they are not bad at all even after he says they are bad.  This guy isn\'t very consistant with what he says.

The point of this thread is to show how little the series changed from DOA2 to DOA3, not to debate if IGN likes the game or not.  

SF3 didn\'t change the basics. The first time I played it, it did feel wierd, but I was able to be competitive if not competent with a friend of mine who had experience playing it. It\'s not like I had to learn a whole new game--many of the motions were the same, and the physics were tweeked just a little, blocking etc. There is more in common than not.

Of course the basics will be the same.  It wouldn\'t be the same series if it wasn\'t.  But there were enough gameplay changes and enough new characters to make it worthy of the "3."  DOA3 is almost identicle to DOA2.  DOA3 is to DOA2 as GT3 is to GT2 IMO.  The only difference is that GT2 was actually good.  DOA2 was not IMO.  And no, I don\'t think GT3 was a big enough change to be called the next in the series.  GT2000 was a much better name.

And the Tekken series has not advanced as much as you say. It underwent some radical changes after the first but after that you exaggerate the truth.

No I didn\'t.  Everything I said was 100% truth and 0% exageration.  But I\'m not going to argue with you about Tekken.  It is not relevant to what we are talking about -- DOA3 is DOA2 with better graphics.

No you didn\'t say outright that IGN didn\'t like it, but from reading your post alone, one would get the idea that they weren\'t entirely thrilled with it.

And now you say you don\'t trust IGN.xbox--if they would have bashed DOA3 you would be onboard singing their praises.  Do you not trust NextGen either?  Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe, just maybe, DOA3 is good?

You are not objective.  If you were objective you would make some concessions and maybe begrudge that the xbox may have 2 great games for launch.  And don\'t give me that IMO crap either.

IMO anyone that wears jeans is a moron and should be thrown in jail to be buggered by a group of large men.

Obviously I don\'t believe that, but that is an opinion too.  The Taliban have opinions, are we going to validate those too?  I\'ve preached this many times here before and I\'ll do it again.  In your opinion you can dislike a game (IMO GT3 is boring), but to be objective and fair you must be willing to give credit where it is due (GT3 is a great game).  

If you can\'t do this your personal bias is affecting your opinions and objectivity.

Uhhhhhhhh..........I don\'t see the problem most ps2 fans liked doa2:hardcore didn\'t y\'all?  Then doa3 is baiscially the same game but with  a lot of enchanements to it.  Another reason they may not like it watchdog is because its on the xbox?  Or could they be biased?  Watchdog and I see that doa3 will be an awesome fighting game and will it be da game to own at launch.  So once you play doa3 on nov. 15 all opinions will quickly change about it....:thepimp: :thepimp: :thepimp:

Originally posted by Watchdog
No you didn\'t say outright that IGN didn\'t like it, but from reading your post alone, one would get the idea that they weren\'t entirely thrilled with it.

I\'m sorry if that\'s how it sounded.  It was not meant to say that IGN thinks DOA3 completely sucks.  I admit that that was a mistake on my part.  But I did give the link for anyone who wanted to read the whole article.  I wasn\'t trying to hide the good or anything like that.

And now you say you don\'t trust IGN.xbox--if they would have bashed DOA3 you would be onboard singing their praises.  Do you not trust NextGen either?  Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe, just maybe, DOA3 is good?

Are you saying that what IGN.Xbox said didn\'t have any inconsistancies?  I know he loves the graphics (I do too), but it sounded like he was hiding something.  We will see when it gets reviewed though.

You are not objective.  If you were objective you would make some concessions and maybe begrudge that the xbox may have 2 great games for launch.  And don\'t give me that IMO crap either.

Two great games to you may not be two great games to me.  I\'m sorry, but this is all an opinion thing (and no, I don\'t want to get into the opinion vs bias debate again )  I will agree though that Halo is a great console FPS.  But I can\'t say that DOA3 is a great fighting game, because to me, it\'s not.  It is an old game with sub-par gameplay masked with great graphics, nothing more.

Firstly, for someone who\'s never played DOA3, you make some startling remarks.  Tell me, will I one day be wealthy?

IGN and NextGen: "BEST 3D FIGHTING GAME EVER."

They didn\'t make any such remarks about the first one or the second one; do you think Team Ninja could have made some changes to bring about such a controversial statment?  Just maybe?

Yeah, but those inconsistencies are very minor.  Mountain out of a molehill?  They didn\'t like Munch much and said so in their impressions.  PG has blocky flat buildings, they said so in their impressions.  Halo and DOA3 are the best of their genre, they said so in their impressions.

You have argued yourself into a corner.  The only reputable source that have said any different (from IGN and NextGen) is Ryu (Who is curiously a PS2 owner.  Coincidence?).

"Wealthy" is entirely an opinion thing.

They didn\'t say anything about the first or second one, but they did say that novices to the series will be able to pick it up and actually be decent competition.  IMO, that is not a good thing.  And that is exactly how it was in DOA2.  They also said that experts won\'t have to relearn the system.  What they meant by this exactly is unknown, but it points to DOA3 being awfully similar to DOA2 IMO.

The inconsistancies pointed to one thing: he wasn\'t going to bash DOA3 even if there are problems.  Yes, they are minor, but they are there.

Watchdog, you know Ryu isn\'t a Sony fanboy or anything like that.  Yes, it is a coincidence.

DOA2 got amazing reviews from just about every magazine even though it was the most shallow fighter at the time.  I think DOA3 will be the same way.  A game with graphics as good as those, who would be crazy enough to bash it?!  Hopefully some respected magazines (Famitsu) will see through its desquise(sp?) and give it a lower rating for it\'s gameplay problems.

You have argued yourself into a corner. The only reputable source that have said any different (from IGN and NextGen) is Ryu (Who is curiously a PS2 owner. Coincidence?).

ROFL, so it\'s not OK for people who give imporessions of games to own other consoles now?  Please note, the X-Box is not out yet and none of you own it either.  Curiously, I am a PS2 owner, but because I like good games and want them in abundance.  I am buying an X-Box and a Cube and I currently own a Dreamcast as well, yet you continue to use that simple statement as means to show that my opinions is null and void.

You meantion to Ironfist that he should try to consider that DOA3 may be a good game, then I ask you to consider the opposite, that DOA3 may be a bad game in pretty clothing.  I played DOA2 on the PS2, I played DOA2 on the DC, I played DOA on the PSX and DOA again on the Saturn, I hated every version of it, but I especially hated part 2 and for part 3 to be the same as 2 but only prettier is what pisses me off the most.  I actually have a first hand account experience of this now and I am not fueled by what everyone else says or by any other opinion.  

Itagaki talks a lot of trash and shows us a game that is sub-par to Virtua Fighter in terms of gameplay and yet he claims his game is better.  Of course developers will do that, but if you can\'t back up your claims with a product that is up to snuff with the competition, then I will bash you for it, just like so many people here bash Jason Rubin and Lorne Lanning.

I hear a lot of talk about certain games being the best ever in their genre, but later those comments are not backed up in their reviews.  Conker was supposed to be the raunchiest greatest platformer ever and what happened?  It fell into the depths of hell.  The Bouncer was supposed to be the greatest brawler ever and it too fell into the depths of hell.  DOA is no eexception to these possibilities and I think it deserves an honorable mention among the games that were hyped up and failed to deliver.

One point at a time.

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"They didn\'t say anything about the first or second one, but they did say that novices to the series will be able to pick it up and actually be decent competition. IMO, that is not a good thing. And that is exactly how it was in DOA2. They also said that experts won\'t have to relearn the system. What they meant by this exactly is unknown, but it points to DOA3 being awfully similar to DOA2 IMO."
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They never said DOA2 is the best fighter ever.  They never said DOA2 is better than Tekken or VF.  They did say DOA3 is better than anything anywhere.  Novice Tekken players can jump around and do damage too.  Don\'t say any differently because it is absolutely true.  They very rarely win a match but an unorthadox opponent can throw a wrench into anyone\'s gameplan.  Novice SC players can too.  Same goes for SF.  A good control scheme can do this. Experts didn\'t have to relearn the SF, VF or Tekken system either.

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The inconsistancies pointed to one thing: he wasn\'t going to bash DOA3 even if there are problems. Yes, they are minor, but they are there.
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Why?  How do you konw that?  This is absolutely the most ridiculous statement in this thread.  Maybe he was tired or maybe it was an oversight and he had a deadline.  Maybe, *gasp* he is actually human and not one of the crazy miniature robot men we all always thought he was!

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Watchdog, you know Ryu isn\'t a Sony fanboy or anything like that. Yes, it is a coincidence.
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IYO.

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DOA2 got amazing reviews from just about every magazine even though it was the most shallow fighter at the time. I think DOA3 will be the same way. A game with graphics as good as those, who would be crazy enough to bash it?! Hopefully some respected magazines (Famitsu) will see through its desquise(sp?) and give it a lower rating for it\'s gameplay problems.
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Good reviews yes, but they all said shallow or not as deep as VF or something along those lines.  So now you say NextGen and IGN are hesitant to bash a great looking game?  C\'mon!  Bouncer?

And why do you keep saying it has gameplay problems?  YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED IT!  So Famitsu is good but from now on, NextGen and IGN are not to be trusted?

Make up your mind.

Sure, Ryu, you can have opinions.  But I\'m going to point out the obvious discrepencies with credible review houses.  If a single hands on preview mentioned something was amiss in the gameplay department of DOA3 I would listen, but so far that hasn\'t happened.  So far it\'s been Best this, best that and I\'ll believe accredited sources before I believe you or Ironfist or anyone else.  They\'ve been around a long time, and frankly you haven\'t.  I don\'t know you, but I do know that thousands of people around desperately want the xbox to fail for reasons unknown to me.  You could be one of these I don\'t know, so for now, until I actually play the games, I\'ll believe the people who have been around.  If that offends you, my apologies.

I have considered it, but NextGen and IGN keep me optimistic.

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Itagaki talks a lot of trash and shows us a game that is sub-par to Virtua Fighter in terms of gameplay and yet he claims his game is better. Of course developers will do that, but if you can\'t back up your claims with a product that is up to snuff with the competition, then I will bash you for it, just like so many people here bash Jason Rubin and Lorne Lanning.
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Blah blah blah sounds like an opinion, that, as I\'ve stated, I hold in contention.  And I\'ll state for the record that NextGen and IGN brought up those statements and said DOA3 backs them up.

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Conker was supposed to be the raunchiest greatest platformer ever and what happened? It fell into the depths of hell. The Bouncer was supposed to be the greatest brawler ever and it too fell into the depths of hell.
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Yes, but that was advanced hype. As the game got near completeion and people had it in their hands, they let us know.  People have had DOA3 in their hands and they let us know.

Originally posted by Watchdog
Sure, Ryu, you can have opinions.  But I\'m going to point out the obvious discrepencies with credible review houses.  If a single hands on preview mentioned something was amiss in the gameplay department of DOA3 I would listen, but so far that hasn\'t happened.  So far it\'s been Best this, best that and I\'ll believe accredited sources before I believe you or Ironfist or anyone else.  They\'ve been around a long time, and frankly you haven\'t.  I don\'t know you, but I do know that thousands of people around desperately want the xbox to fail for reasons unknown to me.  You could be one of these I don\'t know, so for now, until I actually play the games, I\'ll believe the people who have been around.  If that offends you, my apologies.

I have considered it, but NextGen and IGN keep me optimistic.

Okay, so Ryu has actually PLAYED the game, and yet you would believe IGN & NextGen to be LESS biased and MORE accurate sources of information than Ryu?

In case you haven\'t realized these \'professional\' sites kiss every major company\'s ass. Just read their reviews, they\'re littered with inconsistencies and contradictions. IGN wrote several paragraphs about GT3\'s faults and yet gave it a near perfect score.

What do you think would happen if IGN absoultely lambasted EA Sports, or SCEA, or Microsoft, or Nintendo? They wouldn\'t recieve their advance-previews and their freebees on time. Don\'t believe me? Just take a look at Sports Reviewers, they lambasted EA Sports\' and some of their releases over the past few years and now they don\'t get any games from EA.

Ryu, on the other hand, has no vested interest in these companies, he doesn\'t need to kiss their asses and I, and many others here, can vouch for his integrity. I hold the opinions of many forum members here much higher than the opinions of those ass kissers at Gamespot and IGN. Do you value GamePro\'s \'reviews\' highly too?

You have no idea what drives the market place.  If they didn\'t put their games in the mags then where would the hype be?  Without hype games would sell significantly less.  Look at Bouncer--it got ridiculed in the press, and I still see Square games being previewed.

And even if that isn\'t true everyone here uses those sources as evidence if you will, but when those same sources contradict one of their fine points then those sources are ass-kissers, bias, fanboys, etc.

And why do I, more often than not, agree completely with magazine impressions? I look at 4 or 5 accredited impressions (I consider forum impressions too, just not as significantly), get a general concensus and make a decision.  Am I too frightened that I\'ll not get any advanced copies because I find myself liking the same games?  Give your head a shake.  

Ryu has no vested interests?  So just because someone doesn\'t write for a mag that means there are no vested interests?  Clearly, you have not thought this through.  Why then are there so many fanboys and console huggers? OR...wait...that means that everyone here that likes DOA3 must write for a magazine because they crave their advanced copies.  WOW, what a break through.  I\'m calling Dateline and CNN right now!

Think a little before you post.