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Author Topic: Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)  (Read 4508 times)

Offline CS2x
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« on: November 02, 2001, 10:31:10 AM »
Nintendo\'s past ethics and monopolization of videogames are the sole reason videogames on consoles have taken so long to evolve in their content. Compare console game themes to PC game themes and you\'ll see what I\'m speaking of. It wasnt until the N64 that Nintendo realized it had to change in order to compete, and it was Sega that first started pushing the envelope for adult content in videogames back in the Genesis days. If Nintendo had their way, no gamer over 18 would play videogames. Or in Myamoto\'s words, "TRUE gamers are around 15." Thank God Myamoto doesnt run the company, because his newest efforts would cause Nintendo to fall on their arse, IMO. It looks like 2nd and 3rd parties are gonna carry Nintendo this go around.

If you think I\'m flaming Nintendo, its because I am. :) Nintendo is changing because it has to, not because it wants to.

Thankyou.....
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Offline ooseven
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2001, 10:47:19 AM »
*ooseven kicks BIG CLOCK back into life and waitto see how long it takes MM to join in the Nintendo Destroying *


i will be Holding my breath till he dose


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Offline AlteredBeast
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2001, 01:45:14 PM »
so true. I dont know how they keep having SUCCESS with their systems even with the unseemingly lack of innovation in them.

look at Gameboy.

NEC, Atari, and Sega all made WONDERFUL color handhelds with much higher specs and in some respects much higher quality of titles.

It wasnt til about 96 (I think) that Nintendo finally released a colorized version of the gameboy, which was still very behind in terms of technology. I don\'t think any game on GBC looks as good as Sonic did on game gear.

Finally, less than a year ago, they release a 32-bit handheld. Much to my surprise (yeah right) the graphics are where the SNES was almost 10 years ago Gimme a break Nintendo.

What we need is someone like Sega, Sony, MS, or even a new guy, who is willing to put money and time behind a handheld project that will significantly put Nintendo in it\'s place. I do recall Sega taking a large chunk of market when game gear first came out, then they ended up supporting 5 systems at once, and that killed them.

COME ON!


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Offline Bobs_Hardware

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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2001, 02:37:36 PM »
doesnt seem so random to me...

Offline mejilan
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2001, 05:03:46 PM »
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
so true. I dont know how they keep having SUCCESS with their systems even with the unseemingly lack of innovation in them.


There is no developer out there more innovative than Nintendo has consistently been.  It is their calling card, and is the greatest factor to their continued success.  Frankly, the significant majority of the gaming community finds their software to be refreshing and unique, generation upon generation.  They may not be techonology mongers, but they are innovative.

look at Gameboy.  NEC, Atari, and Sega all made WONDERFUL color handhelds with much higher specs and in some respects much higher quality of titles.

Yes, however NEC, Atari, and Sega all lacked innovation in their hardware and software.  I agree, the GB library back in those days was almost as sucky as the libraries of the GameGear, Lynx, and TurboExpress.  And that was the main reason why I never purchased any of those systems.  I only got a GBC when they started releasing some power titles, like MGS, Zelda Oracles, Dragon Quest games, enhanced Pokemon adventures, Mario Tennis, and a bunch of other truly unique and refreshing titles.

It wasnt til about 96 (I think) that Nintendo finally released a colorized version of the gameboy, which was still very behind in terms of technology. I don\'t think any game on GBC looks as good as Sonic did on game gear.

Yes, graphically, the GG was superior to the GBC, but the gameplay over graphics mantra that Nintendo loves so much pretty much deals with that.  The GG has prettier titles, that sucked more.

Finally, less than a year ago, they release a 32-bit handheld. Much to my surprise (yeah right) the graphics are where the SNES was almost 10 years ago Gimme a break Nintendo.

The GBA is already surpassing the SNES in graphical prowess, and this when comparing late-gen SNES titles to 1st gen GBA titles.  Yes, they are comparitive, and yes, they are similar, but you cannot fault the GBA for this, fault the software developers who are having a field day porting over SNES classics.  For better or for worst.  If you take the more unique GBA titles, like THPS2, Boxing Fever, SSF2T Revival, Golden Sun, and others, then you have to agree that they would have been impossible on the SNES.  SSF2T Revival is questionable, but some of the special effects and additions to the engine would have made the game run worse, like SFA2 SNES did when compared to other ports.

What we need is someone like Sega, Sony, MS, or even a new guy, who is willing to put money and time behind a handheld project that will significantly put Nintendo in it\'s place. I do recall Sega taking a large chunk of market when game gear first came out, then they ended up supporting 5 systems at once, and that killed them.

Sega tried again with their Nomad.  Again, awesome graphics, bad idea.  Why release a handheld that is dead before it launched?  Existing Genesis library = cool.  Future support = nil.  I fully expect Sony and MS to attempt it also.  SNK\'s NeoGeo Pocket also was technically  superior to the GBC, but it lacked software and developer support, because it brought nothing new to the industry, and of course, had no mass market appeal.  As for a "new player" in the handheld industry.  Remember Red Jade?  No?  Hahah, there is a reason for that.
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Offline mejilan
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Re: Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2001, 05:27:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CS2x
Nintendo\'s past ethics and monopolization of videogames are the sole reason videogames on consoles have taken so long to evolve in their content. Compare console game themes to PC game themes and you\'ll see what I\'m speaking of. It wasnt until the N64 that Nintendo realized it had to change in order to compete, and it was Sega that first started pushing the envelope for adult content in videogames back in the Genesis days. If Nintendo had their way, no gamer over 18 would play videogames. Or in Myamoto\'s words, "TRUE gamers are around 15." Thank God Myamoto doesnt run the company, because his newest efforts would cause Nintendo to fall on their arse, IMO. It looks like 2nd and 3rd parties are gonna carry Nintendo this go around.

If you think I\'m flaming Nintendo, its because I am. :) Nintendo is changing because it has to, not because it wants to.

Thankyou.....


First of all, I would like to go on record and say that Nintendo is not changing, at least not internally.  Their priorities and even their methods are consistent with their past dealings.  The only way they have changed is by embracing others who will do the change for them.  The internal Nintendo teams, EAD, Intelligent Systems, NCL,  etc are all working on the same kinds of games that they have historically worked on.

Yes, their past ethics and monopolization of the industry in the 8 and 16 bit eras were definitely issues that needed to be dealt with.  Unfortunately, they failed to do so for the 32/64 bit era, but they seem to have wisened up significantly.  No more "dream team" exclusivity demands, 3rd party friendly licensing policies and storage media, a more thorough yet also more open approach to 3rd parties, etc.

Furthermore, by surrounding themselves with talented 2nd parties, like RareWare, NST, Retro Studios, Silicon Nights, Left Field Studios, NDCube, etc, they are pretty much guaranteeing that we will see quality titles of those kinds of games that Nintendo has not historically dealt with (Conker, Eternal Darkness, etc.), all the while leaving their own internal 1st party teams free to develop more of the classics.  Also, recently it has been reported that Nintendo will proceed with an aggressive new plan to support and fund many smaller Japanese development studios, in hopes of unlocking more talent and potentially explosive ideas, like Pokemon.  Even if they do not uncover another phenomenon like Pokemon, who\'s to say what unique gems may come out of these quiet and small developers once Nintendo brings them under its wings?

Now, if you look back in the good old days of the SNES (best. system. ever.) and Genesis, you could notice that their 3rd party support was almost equally varied and numerous.  Why then did Nintendo "win" that generation?  Because their 1st party titles were, historically, more successful than Sega\'s.  Now, I love my Phantasy Stars, and Shining Forces, Sonics,  and whatnot, but they really could not compare with titles like Mario World, Yoshi\'s Island, Zelda - A Link to the Past, Super Metroid, and others.  To say that Nintendo "held" the industry back by not providing more "mature" content is simply foolish.  There were other companies out there who were pushing more mature content and they did so quite successfully.

In fact, one of those others companies was Nintendo themselves.  Super Metroid, Super Famicom Wars, Mother, Fire Emblem, these are all extremely "non kiddy" (to use the popular but oh so inaccurate terms).  You may not be familiar with some of these franchises, mainly due to the fact that most of them were never localized, but they represent a side of Nintendo that has always been around since the beginning, and is still alive and kicking today!

I truly hate the terms "mature" and "kiddy" simply due to the fact that they are so misleading.  Zelda has always kinda been in between these two "labels" but most Nintendo bashers would equate the franchise as kiddy on sheer principle alone.  While there is no doubt that games like Mario are orientated towards youthful audiences, it is not exclusively geared towards them.  Such titles are uniquely designed to appeal to both children and adults.  Mario and Zelda are franchises that cater to all audiences, but none exclusively.  Children can pick up any Mario and Zelda title and have a ball, and adults can do likewise (and frequently do) and still be amazed and challenged.  That is the "Nintendo" element, that you may read, hear, or even scoff about.

As far as innovation goes, just look at the history of the industry.  Nintendo was solely responsible for resurrecting the industry after the early 80\'s crash and near demise of gaming.  They have pioneered the majority of significant gaming genres we take for granted today, and reinvented many of those same genres more recently, in the third dimension.  You could say that in many respects, Nintendo has consistenly pioneered the way we play games in general!

And frankly, as a gamer, I do not see this changing at all.  I would not recommend anyone trust Nintendo to fulfill all of their gaming needs, or even most.  That would depend on the gamer in question.  However, to alienate yourself from all of their titles on sheer misinformation or misguied ideals, that would be sad.  Many of you may gripe about the next Celda game in development, but no one (media, majority of gamers, etc) truly doubts that Nintendo will fail to provide what they have consistently given us in the past... simply fun gameplay.
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Offline AlteredBeast
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2001, 05:54:22 PM »
PLEASE tell me which fields Nintendo has been innovative in.

I would love to hear how the gaming public goes for Nintendo\'s innovation in games,a nd not the same drivel year in and year out.

Game Gear has sucky titles, in YOUR opinion. In MY opinion, the GB has no platofrmer that matches any of the Sonic games. You can\'t bring in GBC games in this argument, since you conclude that GB had sucky games back then, then got better, why couldnt GG do the same?

you want me to blame the developers for porting SNES games? How about that INNOVATIVE Nintendo. Mario Advance = Mario Brothers 2. Mario kart Advance = Mario Kart + new levels, Mario Advance 2 = Mario Brothers 3, etc ad infinatium.

Please don\'t give me that crap about Nintendo having better games back then, either. Obviously you werent old enough back then to realize what business was. Let me detail it for you.

Nintendo owned 90% of the videogame market back then. yes, 90%. It was the first handheld available and Nintendo made SURE that NO third parties made for oppopsing systems. So GB had Tetris, Mega Man, Castlevania, etc. All exclusive. that is ILLEGAL, my friend. They got taken t the supreme court, and it was overturned, but by then, Nintendo had a lock on the handheld market, with it\'s blurry, yellow and green graphics.

Please find every way possible to defend these rebuttals, I need a good laugh.


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Offline AlteredBeast
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2001, 06:05:10 PM »
mejilan, I think you got your lines crossed.

3rd parties were still under Nintendo\'s control in the SNES days. After the Supreme court broke up the exclusitivity contract, whcih was, in essence, impressive even to MS, Nintendo had 3rd parties, AGAIN, sign an illegal contract. This time being, any developer who worked on NES under the old terms must wait for 2 years, I believe, before working on other 3rd parties.

Thankfully, Sega let 3rd parties that were just beginning get some foothold. EA was by no means new, but their sports games were, and they were better on Genny. Sega Sports also competed with them to make both better. Nintendo doesnt do sports worth crap.

Quote
Now, if you look back in the good old days of the SNES (best. system. ever.) and Genesis, you could notice that their 3rd party support was almost equally varied and numerous. Why then did Nintendo "win" that generation? Because their 1st party titles were, historically, more successful than Sega\'s. Now, I love my Phantasy Stars, and Shining Forces, Sonics, and whatnot, but they really could not compare with titles like Mario World, Yoshi\'s Island, Zelda - A Link to the Past, Super Metroid, and others. To say that Nintendo "held" the industry back by not providing more "mature" content is simply foolish. There were other companies out there who were pushing more mature content and they did so quite successfully.


Nintendo didn\'t win the generation. It is debatable in each direction. most people agree that Nintendo sold mre systems. But Sega sold more software, some say by miles. I don\'t care how many systems you sell, if you dont sell games, it isnt worth crap. Nintendo\'s games selling better than Sega\'s (I am talking first party here) should be null, since Sega being in the market as a game market on a mass scale was their first time. SMS was a failure, thanks to NES and monopoly, and they only had about 7% of the market back then. for a \'first timer\', Sega sold tons. Also, Sega was making up new genres, and new franchises, as they still are today, while Nintendo dregs up the same old, same old. They INVENTED the strategy RPG, 3D fighting, 3D racing, the adult gaming market (post 84 crash), etc.


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Offline mejilan
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2001, 06:33:27 PM »
About the 3rd parties, I was not speaking of specifics at all.  If you look at a lot of the 3rd party software by the end of the 16 bit era, you would see that a lot of the 3rd party software for the SNES and Genesis complimented each other well.  I did not mean to imply that exactly the same games came out on both systems.  But, there were overlapping titles, of course.  Street Fighters, Mortal Kombats, Earthworm Jims, and many many more.

Nintendo didn\'t win the generation. It is debatable in each direction. most people agree that Nintendo sold mre systems. But Sega sold more software, some say by miles. I don\'t care how many systems you sell, if you dont sell games, it isnt worth crap.

Yep, agreed about system sales = nothing without high games sales.  And yes, reports were conflicting.  But I remember researching this a few months ago.  By the end of the 16 bit generation,  Nintendo "won out" in the end in the North American and Japanese markets, and Sega\'s Mega Drive did in the less significant European markets.

Nintendo\'s games selling better than Sega\'s (I am talking first party here) should be null, since Sega being in the market as a game market on a mass scale was their first time.

The Genesis was not Sega\'s "first time" in any respect.  While I agree that the Sega Master System was a failure (sad, because the games were awesome and the hardware was technically superior to the NES) it had a presence in all major markets.

SMS was a failure, thanks to NES and monopoly, and they only had about 7% of the market back then. for a \'first timer\', Sega sold tons. Also, Sega was making up new genres, and new franchises, as they still are today, while Nintendo dregs up the same old, same old. They INVENTED the strategy RPG, 3D fighting, 3D racing, the adult gaming market (post 84 crash), etc.

SMS was a failure because, quite simply, it could not compete.  Sega has never been able to market their products in a consistently successful manner, that has been their greatest failing over the years.  The SMS had some true gems, but was overwhelmed by the NES\' games, of which there were many more, and a decent amount of those were better and more innovative.  Sega did not invent the Strategy RPG.  I do give props to Sega for some truly stunning stuff, but Nintendo, hands down, pioneered more new genre\'s than Sega.

Nintendo\'s Intelligent Systems developed their Fire Emblem games on the Famicom way before Sega and Climax/Camelot pushed out Shining Force.  For that matter, Shining Force was Climax/Camelot\'s creature, moreso than Sega\'s.  Sega simply published it.

Speaking of Camelot, anyone here excited about this month\'s impending release of their first GBA RPG, Golden Sun?
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Offline IronFist
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2001, 06:34:16 PM »
*IronFist reads whole thread*

Well, I guess my work here is done. :D

*IronFist leaves thread*
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Offline AlteredBeast
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2001, 06:41:06 PM »
go ahead and name them, (the innovation in genres and games)

Also, SMS lost ebcause of the lack of third party support, of which there was nothing they could do, as all third parties except Activision and Dynamix were locked into Nintendos ILLEGAL 3rd party contracts.

SMS, by all reason, should have sold loads more, as was shown in Europe and South America, since Nintendo wasnt allowed to pull that crap there, SMS had new games in Europe out in 1995, in Brazil, games are still being produced (but not new), the last new one was late 1997, Street Fighter 2 was on it, Streets of Rge, Virtua Fighter Animation, etc.

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Offline mejilan
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2001, 08:47:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AlteredBeast
go ahead and name them, (the innovation in genres and games)


Seriously?  You can look up any featured "History of Nintendo" or better yet, "History of the Gaming Industry" around the web and get much better answers than I can give you off the top of my head.

Off the top of my head, these games pioneered their genres, either by defining them in modern gaming, or inventing them altogether:
Donkey Kong - varied gameplay
Super Mario Bros. - platformers
Kid Icarus - non-arcade style action
Metroid - exploration based action
Zelda - first adventure game (or action/rpg, if you prefer the term)
Duck Hunt - first console light gun game

Those are the major ones, but there were more.  These however, fundamentally changed the way we played games.  These genres and gameplay fundamentals were evolved on the Super Nintendo in grand form, and an admittedly smaller amount of them were also redefined in 3D with the Nintendo 64.

I could go on and on for pages about how the Zelda Ocarina of Time engine completely changed the way we play games in 3D.  But honestly, I am too worn out to do so, and I think I would hit a post limit way before finishing. :)
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Offline Clyde
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2001, 03:11:24 AM »
i think you are a bit confused

everytime you mention innovation, exhange the word nintendo with the word SEGA

they are the ones that pushed the envelope time and time again, nintendo would wait, and then copy thier ideas
brother, can u spare a nanner?

Offline JP
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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2001, 03:36:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Clyde
i think you are a bit confused

everytime you mention innovation, exhange the word nintendo with the word SEGA

they are the ones that pushed the envelope time and time again, nintendo would wait, and then copy thier ideas


So true  :)

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Random Nintendo rant (I was bored, OK!?)
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2001, 05:07:47 AM »
What time is it?

 

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