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Author Topic: New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?  (Read 3502 times)

Offline RichG
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Are Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry? Like Microsoft is on the PC market.

I think they deserved there success back in 1995 when the PS1 was launched. With good marketing skills they seemed to hammer the Sega Saturn, Sega Dreamcast and N64. They even made a name for gaming. Pretty good considering it was Sony\'s first attempt in the console world.

However now when the PS2 was launched was it all that great? I know i\'ve said it time and time again but you see it in gaming magazines, web sites, gaming tv shows, most people were disapointed with the PS2. I mean lets face it with all the sell outs, console problems, and games which look just above PS1 games and they had slowdown it wasn\'t too much of a great launch!

However it seems it sold bucket loads of hype alone and Sony\'s powerful brand.

Now I would say that the PS2 is a good console, now developers have gotten to grips with the development side of things and can produce nice looking games which run smooth like ICO and Gran Turismo 3.

Its just that if you talk to people nowadays, the general public that is, most people know what PS2 is, prehaps they own a playstation or playstation 2. If you say you have an X-Box they would be like "You shouldn\'t have bought that its crap". However these people have never layed eyes on the machine. This is the response my brother got when telling some people he knew that he owned an X-Box and guess what they were all 25 so its not like they were chatting on the playground.

Unfortunatly its these people which buy the machines. The X-Box and Gamecube are now the superier machines to PS2 and it would be a shame if like the Dreamcast they died without a looking just because people wernt willing to buy a none Sony brand.

Is it helpful for the scene? I personnally think its not.

What do you lot think?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2002, 02:36:08 AM by RichG »

Offline SER
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2002, 02:46:29 AM »
I didn\'t really read what you put, I just read the title and decided to say that Sony isn\'t a monopoly.. They still have a fair amount of competition..

Offline Metal_Gear_Ray
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2002, 02:48:17 AM »
not yeat

read this

Tokyo, April 5 (Bloomberg) -- Sony Corp., buoyed by Japan sales of more than 4 million PlayStation 2 game machines in the fiscal year ended Sunday, held almost two thirds of the country\'s game console market in the period, a video-game researcher said.

Microsoft Corp., the world\'s largest software maker, sold 190,000 units of its Xbox console after releasing the game machine on Feb. 22, taking a 3 percent market share, researcher Enterbrain Inc. said. The researcher is also publisher of ``Famitsu,\'\' the country\'s most influential video-game magazine.

Microsoft\'s attempt to topple Sony in Japan was hampered after the Redmond, Washington-based company was forced to repair or replace defective versions of the Xbox when customers complained the machine damaged some game disks.

Nintendo Co., the world\'s second-largest game console maker, took one fifth of the Japanese game machine market last fiscal year, selling about 1.3 million of its GameCube machines in the six months since its September debut, according to Enterbrain.

The sales figures are based on Enterbrain\'s nationwide survey of video-game retailers and video-rental stores.

At present, Sony\'s PlayStation 2 is sold at 29,800 yen ($226) in Japan after cutting its retail price three times over the last two years. Microsoft sells its Xbox console at 34,800 yen, while Nintendo offers its GameCube machine at 25,000 yen.

In the hand-held game player market, Nintendo, the maker of Pokemon and Mario game software, dominated the Japanese market, grabbing almost 90 percent with more than 4 million unit sales of its Game Boy Advance player. Game Boy Advance debuted in Japan a year ago. Bandai Co., Nintendo\'s nearest competitor in the hand- held market, sold just 217,000 of its WonderSwan hand-helds.

By software maker, Nintendo ranked top in the year, selling more than seven million game copies for its consoles and portable players. Tokyo-based Konami Corp. was second with sales of 3.6 million copies sold, the researcher said. Third-placed Sony sold 3.3 million software units in the fiscal year just ended.

thats japan!:eek: Sony is doing good, very good but they still aren\'t yet a monopoly, but if everything is going as it now is, tye will be in say 5 years time
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Offline mm
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2002, 04:16:49 AM »
you cant compare the two

m$ controls the PC market thru brute force and they still release products that contain 10\'s of thousands of KNOWN bugs

sony puts out a great product for developers to put out great games
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Offline seven
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2002, 05:18:44 AM »
Sony doesn\'t have a monopoly - or not just yet anyway. You pointed out something about the PS2 launch, which you say was disappointing to a lot of people. True. But that disappointment has nothing to do with monopoly or Sony bringing out an infiriour product. Sony was the one that went the other way when they designed the PS2 architecture and they decided to make something challenging, yet very powerful if used right by the developers. This decision was quite risky as the launch of PS2 showed: due to very little libraries, short development time and a very challenging hardware, PS2 games had a lot of flaws at the time. This could have made the PS2 fail if it wasn\'t for the hype that surrounded it.

Now lets assume Sony would have had a monopoly. Would they have made the PS2 as it is (innovative/challenging) - or would they have gone the Microsoft way and build a console with PC components? I\'d probably go with the latter since Microsoft\'s attempt is less expensive and less risky. Easy monney if they succed. But who knows, maybe if Sony had a monopoly, they maybe would have done things the same. Maybe because Sony has a lot of big plans of the future - and we do know what Kataragi\'s visions about networking is...

So just to answer question: my answer would be a clear no.

Offline Watchdog
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2002, 05:51:42 AM »
I fail to see how the archetecture of the PS2 has any relevance in a discussion about monopolies?  It makes no rational sense at all.  It was arrogance that lead to the design, well, arrogance and bad engineers.
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Offline seven
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2002, 06:04:08 AM »
When a company has a monopoly, they tend to try to make money the easy way. Microsoft has also showed very well what a monopoly can lead to: faulty and buggy products.

Sony did something very innovative with PS2 - wich maybe the result of them not having a monopoly. And I was just replying to RichG, who made some points about PS2\'s launch which I cleared up.

Quote
It was arrogance that lead to the design, well, arrogance and bad engineers.


Behind what reasoning?

Offline Watchdog
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2002, 06:17:23 AM »
Firstly, it is clear your knowledge of monopolies starts and stops with MS.  The formula for monopolies isn\'t nearly as simple as you provide, and certainly doesn\'t hinge on innovation.  You insist and rely solely on your own brand of home-grown "common sense" and then apply it to fields and disciplines that you obviously know nothing about.  

Pick up a business 101 textbook give it a read, challenge your assumptions and preconcieved notions.  I could then ship you an "Economics in a Frigid Marketplace" and then perhaps a solid discussion of economics and business could be had.  I realize that this would completely shatter your world view: God (aka Sony), man, woman, animals, insects, rocks, xbox/MS, but it\'d do you a world of good.

The answers to all questions found in the world cannot be found within the confines of your head, Seven.  There are others out there that have expertise and knowledge that eclipses your own in their chosen disciplines.

Knowledge will set you free (and give me less headaches).
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Offline Blade
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2002, 06:23:28 AM »
MM: IMO, the PSX/PS2 hardware is some of the worst you can use.

Outside of the controller, it\'s horrible; PSX = many shortcomings, PS2 = not developer friendly.

Sony isn\'t really too much of a monopoly right now.. at least, not comparable to MS in the computer software industry. Nintendo has a 100% stake in the handheld market in America, and that\'s a big part of the industry that Sony hasn\'t touched. Also, MS/Nintendo continue to chip away the fabric of Sony\'s appeal.. 3rd-parties.. with more easy/powerful hardware and other improvements. Now that MS is in the console market, and Nintendo is delivering the goods to developers.. I don\'t think that Sony will be kicking as much ass next generation as they do now.
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Offline seven
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2002, 06:26:49 AM »
WTF? What are you trying to say in your above post that has anything to do with the topic? Either respond to my post, but don\'t get personal and give me this crap about that I have no idea or at least make some valid points. These posts of yours are the ones we don\'t need at the forum.

So Watchie, I am still waiting. I asked you a direct question, where\'s the answer?

Offline Watchdog
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2002, 06:56:55 AM »
Seven, if you didn\'t get my point the last time, I\'ll really hit it home for you.  You are far too stubborn and ignorant to ever concede a point even if it completely eclipses your knowledge base.  You will argue on for pages on end without the slightest clue of what you are talking about.

Just your theory that monopolistic companies don\'t have innovation is compeltely and utterly ridiculous.  If this is your starting point in a discussion about economics and business then I want no part of it because we can\'t have a discussion.  I wouldn\'t presume to argue about molecular biology with my ex-roommate because I don\'t know the first thing about it.

You however never get caught up in the finer details and jump in head first (or should I say PS2 first?).

You don\'t know the first thing about monopolies (besides that MS holds one) yet you are completely willing to debate about it.  You are just so eager to put down MS and promote Sony that you don\'t give a second thought about what the topic is.  Only you would say that Sony can grow better potatos than MS and would ramble on at great length about fertilizer mix, greenhousing and growth capacity.

Everytime a reliable, credible and verifiable source is quoted that contradicts one of your points you dig deeply into your own personal knowledge base, give your opinion, and declare the source material as invalid and bias.

There is no arguing with you Seven, and I\'m not even going to try.
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Offline RichG
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2002, 07:07:00 AM »
Well I don\'t know much about monopoly\'s myself. I know Microsoft is one and Sony is definatly heading that way. Surely a gaming monopoly can\'t be a good thing. Competition brings with it variation in the market place along with cheaper prices for the consumer. The way its heading in the next generation we could only have the choice of PS3 and PS3. :(

Offline seven
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2002, 07:16:05 AM »
Quote
The term "monopoly" means a situation in which a business enterprise, in a particular market, is in a competition-free environment or enjoys overwhelming domination to exclude competition.


So much for a quick definition of monopoly (which I obviously have no idea about. :rolleyes: )

Quote
Just your theory that monopolistic companies don\'t have innovation is compeltely and utterly ridiculous. If this is your starting point in a discussion about economics and business then I want no part of it because we can\'t have a discussion. I wouldn\'t presume to argue about molecular biology with my ex-roommate because I don\'t know the first thing about it.


This is pathetic. All I said was;

"When a company has a monopoly, they tend to try to make money the easy way. Microsoft has also showed very well what a monopoly can lead to: faulty and buggy products."

This is absolutely correct. If you don\'t share my opinion, feel free to debate it. Competition is what drives the market for the better. When companies are in direct competition, they will try to make their product better. You don\'t have to hold a degree in economics for that - it\'s commonsense.

Quote
There is no arguing with you Seven, and I\'m not even going to try.


Ah, a true classic excuse when one doesn\'t know what to reply...

Now, you do a really good job by changing topics and twisting arguements, but getting back to the thread, I asked you a question, which you have failed to answer. I\'ll requote:

Quote
You said:
It was arrogance that lead to the design, well, arrogance and bad engineers.


Behind what reasoning?

Offline fastson
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2002, 07:26:25 AM »
No Sony does not have a monopoly..
There are two strong competetors out there, Microsoft and Nintendo.

And Im against monopoly (look what the OS market has become!!)

Quote
It was arrogance that lead to the design, well, arrogance and bad engineers.


:rolleyes:
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Offline Watchdog
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New topic! Is Sony too much of a monopoly on the gaming industry?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2002, 09:02:09 AM »
Okay, once again, I\'ve been sucked into an argument I really don\'t care for (like the H.G. Wells one a few days ago).

Firstly, the arrogance question.  How many here know who developed the EE?  The usual suspects include Intel, 3Dfx, Nvidia, ATi, but it wasn\'t any of these, it was Toshiba (with help from Sony and IBM).  Strange but true.

I, and many others, wouldn\'t pick Toshiba and Sony to design high-end chips (both are competent chip makers, but not amoung the elite)--IBM yes--but Sony decided to give the lead to Toshiba.  You don\'t see Nintendo or MS helping their chip makers.  

Anyway, Sony could have went with trusted archetecture, known designs and proven quality, but they went with Tosh\'s EE.  An virtual unknown and a radical chip design.  This infuriated developers, but Sony didn\'t care. Where else would they go?  The N64 or DC?  Sony knew they could do whatever they wanted and devs would come, they\'d have to.

It wasn\'t the performance of the chip or the specs, it was the idea of it, the pure confounding nature of it that attracted Sony.  If Sony would have went to press with a Nvidia chip and said "This is the Emotion Engine, it can create vast, detailed, populated worlds where each individual has his/her own unique emotions and desires!"  People would have pointed and laughed and said, it\'s a Nvidia chip, not unlike the one I have on my desktop, sure it\'s more powerful, but it\'s not all that hype.

With Tosh\'s design, people took so long to figure it out, that there was no time for a dissenting viewpoint because the hype machine was in full swing and everyone was obsessed with Sony.  If they wanted to please developers and customers they would have went with known archetecture and not alienated their developers.  It wouldn\'t have taken almost 2 years for the machine\'s potencial to be realized.  But Sony didn\'t care because they knew the devs and the public would come because where else would they go?  This is arrogance (and burgeoning on monopoly).

Now about the whole monopoly thing.  People are free to choose, competition isn\'t impossible, Sony isn\'t a monopoly.

DISCLAIMER: I am no expert on economics, anone who is feel free to correct me.

Why is it that business and economics majors always, at some point, study MS?  Why is it that most introductory B&E courses start with MS?  Because they are a smart company that has made wise decisions and conducted business in a way that makes complete (business) sense.  MS is not unlike Time Warner, Viacom, United Airlines or Central Pacific (well CP was a coercive monopoly, aided by government sanctions, so they\'re not the same type of monopoly as the others).

When Viacom absorbed CBS (making it the biggest in the industry), no one said a word.  When MS bought Bungie--everyone cried bloody foul, forgetting the fact that Bungie approached MS to be bought.  Forgot about that didn\'t you?

We live in a capitalistic society and MS (exactly like the companies above) is only playing by the rules of our society.  The market will regulate itself.  Netscape was out first and was offered free to anyone.  IE was introduced later and was also free, but was vastly inferior.  Then NS started to charge $20 bucks for the browser and an email  client.  MS bundled IE with Windows, then improved IE.  NS started to lose its mindshare and quickly dropped its price to zero, and filed a lawsuit stating that MS was using unfair pricing tactics.  It seems to me that NS tried to exploit its marketshare by charging $20, and MS released a superior product, charged nothing and won marketshare.  The market chose the best deal for them.  The OS market is no different.  Apple was out first, MS though they had a good idea, tailored it, improved it and offered a deal to OEMs to distrubute their OS.  OEMs looked at the prices on the market and went with MS.  

Seems like good business to me.  A capitalistic society allows anyone the freedom to make as much money as he/she can and price whatever, he/she wants.  Linex is out there, it\'s basically free, but it\'s not generating a market share outside of server admins.  Why?  Probably marketing and MS\'s mindshare.  Why is Sony selling 30 million PS2s?  Probably marketing and mindshare.

MS is not unlike IBM years ago.  MS can be toppled, but it\'ll take a keen company and some luck--it took Intel and MS to dethrone IBM.

If you take business or economics courses, you will hear about Central Pacific, a coercive monopoly that allowed for no competition.  You\'ll also learn that MS, Time Warner and Disney aren\'t coercive or in the same category as CP.  CP was not built on smart business practises, sound decisions and free economy--they were built on a mixed economy model.  They had legislative leverage, that being government aid in terms of legislations/sanctions, that allowed for absolutely no competition.

MS can be beaten--Sun and Oracle proove that (and NS too until they changed tactics)--and MS doesn\'t stop competition, actually Apple and Corel wouldn\'t even be around if not for MS financial aid.  The problem is that most people think immediately that monopolies are evil--coercive monopolies are--but standard monopolies like Time Warner, Viacom and MS are merely examples of the economic market working well, by smart people.

All this antitrust and monopoly started with "The Wealth of Nations" published some 200 years ago.  And if you read that book you\'ll realize that today, the term monopoly, is a misnomer.   coined the term monopoly to mean a business running with government assistence and exclusivity (CP).  Today, it\'s any successful company, usually MS.

Legislators often quote this guy (damn I wish I could remember his name!) in support of anti-trust laws, but he was very much against them.  Infact, if not for politicians, who have no clue about anything let alone economics, the anti-trust laws would be long gone.  As it is, anti-trust laws are open to interpretation, so much so that, almost any successful company can be accused of anti-trust violations.  Everyone agrees, that ammendments are needed, even those strongly in support of anti-trust legislation.  As it is now, successful, smart and rich comapnies are being rallied again because of these very qualities under the flag of anti-trust.  This is not what anti-trust is about, not when it was concieved years ago.  It\'s only become this recently.


Whew!  So is MS a monopoly?  Yes, but under the rules of a capitalist society, MS is playing fairly.  The only hitch people have is that they play the game much better than anyone else right now.  Another OS can come out, people can shose to buy it if they want and MS can do nothing about it.  Hell, Linux is free!

Is Sony a monopoly in the console world?  In a word, no, but it\'s not far off.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2002, 09:23:16 AM by Watchdog »
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