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Author Topic: Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.  (Read 6117 times)

Offline Bossieman
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« on: September 18, 2002, 07:25:28 AM »
I have done some research and my conclusions are that it is not possible to bulid and store so many animals for so long time.

A interesting source

Some questions:

Special diets. Many animals, especially insects, require special diets. Koalas, for example, require eucalyptus leaves, and silkworms eat nothing but mulberry leaves. For thousands of plant species (perhaps even most plants), there is at least one animal that eats only that one kind of plant. How did Noah gather all those plants aboard, and where did he put them?

Other animals are strict carnivores, and some of those specialize on certain kinds of foods, such as small mammals, insects, fish, or aquatic invertebrates. How did Noah determine and provide for all those special diets?

Fresh foods. Many animals require their food to be fresh. Many snakes, for example, will eat only live foods (or at least warm and moving). Parasitoid wasps only attack living prey. Most spiders locate their prey by the vibrations it produces. [Foelix, 1996] Most herbivorous insects require fresh food. Aphids, in fact, are physically incapable of sucking from wilted leaves. How did Noah keep all these food supplies fresh?

Food preservation/Pest control. Food spoilage is a major concern on long voyages; it was especially thus before the inventions of canning and refrigeration. The large quantities of food aboard would have invited infestations of any of hundreds of stored product pests (especially since all of those pests would have been aboard), and the humidity one would expect aboard the Ark would have provided an ideal environment for molds. How did Noah keep pests from consuming most of the food?

Ventilation. The ark would need to be well ventilated to disperse the heat, humidity, and waste products (including methane, carbon dioxide, and ammonia) from the many thousands of animals which were crowded aboard. Woodmorappe (pp. 37-42) interprets Genesis 6:16 to mean there was an 18-inch opening all around the top, and says that this, with slight breezes, would have been enough to provide adequate ventilation. However, the ark was divided into separate rooms and decks (Gen. 6:14,16). How was fresh air circulated throughout the structure?

Sanitation. The ungulates alone would have produced tons of manure a day. The waste on the lowest deck at least (and possibly the middle deck) could not simply be pushed overboard, since the deck was below the water line; the waste would have to be carried up a deck or two. Vermicomposting could reduce the rate of waste accumulation, but it requires maintenance of its own. How did such a small crew dispose of so much waste?

Exercise/Animal handling. The animals aboard the ark would have been in very poor shape unless they got regular exercise. (Imagine if you had to stay in an area the size of a closet for a year.) How were several thousand diverse kinds of animals exercised regularly?

Manpower for feeding, watering, etc. How did a crew of eight manage a menagerie larger and more diverse than that found in zoos requiring many times that many employees? Woodmorappe claims that eight people could care for 16000 animals, but he makes many unrealistic and invalid assumptions. Here are a few things he didn\'t take into account:

Feeding the animals would take much longer if the food was in containers to protect it from pests.
Many animals would have to be hand-fed.
Watering several animals at once via troughs would not work aboard a ship. The water would be sloshed out by the ship\'s roll.
Many animals, in such an artificial environment, would have required additional special care. For example, all of the hoofed animals would need to have their hooves trimmed several times during the year. [Batten, 1976, pp. 39-42]
Not all manure could be simply pushed overboard; a third of it at least would have to be carried up at least one deck.
Corpses of the dead animals would have to be removed regularly.
Animals can\'t be expected to run laps and return to their cages without a lot of human supervision.
References
Batten, R. Peter, 1976. Living trophies. Thomas Y. Crowell Co., New York.

Foelix, Rainer F., 1996. The biology of spiders, 2nd ed., Oxford University Press, New York. Chpt. 6.

Woodmorappe, John, 1996. Noah\'s Ark: a feasibility study. Institute for Creation Research, Santee, California.

5. The Flood Itself
Where did the Flood water come from, and where did it go? Several people have proposed answers to these questions, but none which consider all the implications of their models. A few of the commonly cited models are addressed below.

Vapor canopy. This model, proposed by Whitcomb & Morris and others, proposes that much of the Flood water was suspended overhead until the 40 days of rain which caused the Flood. The following objections are covered in more detail by Brown.

How was the water suspended, and what caused it to fall all at once when it did?
If a canopy holding the equivalent to more than 40 feet of water were part of the atmosphere, it would raise the atmospheric pressure accordingly, raising oxygen and nitrogen levels to toxic levels.
If the canopy began as vapor, any water from it would be superheated. This scenario essentially starts with most of the Flood waters boiled off. Noah and company would be poached. If the water began as ice in orbit, the gravitational potential energy would likewise raise the temperature past boiling.
A canopy of any significant thickness would have blocked a great deal of light, lowering the temperature of the earth greatly before the Flood.
Any water above the ozone layer would not be shielded from ultraviolet light, and the light would break apart the water molecules.
Hydroplate. Walt Brown\'s model proposes that the Flood waters came from a layer of water about ten miles underground, which was released by a catastrophic rupture of the earth\'s crust, shot above the atmosphere, and fell as rain.

How was the water contained? Rock, at least the rock which makes up the earth\'s crust, doesn\'t float. The water would have been forced to the surface long before Noah\'s time, or Adam\'s time for that matter.
Even a mile deep, the earth is boiling hot, and thus the reservoir of water would be superheated. Further heat would be added by the energy of the water falling from above the atmosphere. As with the vapor canopy model, Noah would have been poached.
Where is the evidence? The escaping waters would have eroded the sides of the fissures, producing poorly sorted basaltic erosional deposits. These would be concentrated mainly near the fissures, but some would be shot thousands of miles along with the water. (Noah would have had to worry about falling rocks along with the rain.) Such deposits would be quite noticeable but have never been seen.


So for mee it is pretty clear. What about you guys?

Offline mm
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2002, 07:26:26 AM »
ever hear of something called faith?
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Offline Black Samurai
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2002, 07:56:09 AM »
If the "Flood" story wasn\'t so widespread and consistently similar I might agree with you; but since it is, I still believe that the flood did occur.

IMO, Science knows about 10% of the things that there is to know about our world and they consistently make guesses about the other 90% based on that 10. I think within the next 10 years science is going to have a HUGE paradigm shift. I have read some books that already show the beginnings of a shift in mindset.
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Offline GmanJoe

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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2002, 08:04:36 AM »
I don\'t think the Bible was meant to be taken literally. Especially since today\'s interpretation is from another language that interpreted another language....and so on. The Dead Sea Scrolls is the language to learn. Ancient Aramaic, I think. The language Jesus and His desciples spoke.
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Offline dajo
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2002, 08:19:30 AM »
How did Moses part the Red Sea?

How did Jesus walk on water?

How did many of the biblical stories take place?

Many are not "humanly possible" but have been said to have taken place. When it comes to ancient times we don\'t understand. We\'ll never understad till we meet our maker.
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Offline Bozco
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2002, 08:45:47 AM »
Things like this make me question everything.  The believers don\'t have an explanation so they just say "its god" or "faith".

Offline mm
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2002, 09:32:36 AM »
theres millions of things even science cannot explain


i\'d take god over science any day
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline Samwise
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2002, 09:34:05 AM »
Bleh, science > God.

;)

I don\'t care what people believe, whether or not they\'re gullibe doesn\'t concern me. I know what I believe. :)
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Offline Bozco
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2002, 09:41:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
theres millions of things even science cannot explain


i\'d take god over science any day


You pick god because science can\'t explain everything while you can\'t explain how there is a god.

Offline mm
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2002, 09:42:39 AM »
lol, we dont have to explain there is a god

thats the scientist\'s bane

are you saying there is no god?
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline Bossieman
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2002, 09:43:24 AM »
But sooner or later science comes up with an answer.

Offline mm
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2002, 09:44:35 AM »
not an answer, a theory

a collective theory at that

they cant even make up thier minds what happened to the dinosaurs
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline nO-One

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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2002, 09:50:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mm
theres millions of things even science cannot explain


i\'d take god over science any day

hmmm, I always took you for a science person myself.

Anyhoo, like Sammy boy I don\'t belive in god. Science is the way to go as far as I\'m concerned. Now if you\'ll excuse me I have to go and worship a microscope :p

j/k
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Offline mm
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2002, 09:58:36 AM »
science is part of the world god created

ask L. ron hubbard

not believing in god?  now thats just ridiculous
\"Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.\" - Clemenza

Offline Bossieman
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Ok, Noahs Ark could not exist.
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2002, 09:59:32 AM »
We are pretty close to find the GUT. And after that we should have answers to tons of questions. About the Dinasaurs, well we dont kow exactly what happened to them, we will never do because of time and entropy. maybe soetime in the future we can do some kind of program that can simulate Earth history, who knows.

 

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