Hello

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Author Topic: Powell\'s key points on Iraq  (Read 4611 times)

Offline Mr. Kennedy
  • Resident Libertarian
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9110
  • Karma: +10/-0
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2003, 05:26:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by luckee


They already know we are spying, so Id say no.


well duh, but by providing substantial evidence they might be able to figure out the who-what-where, and we don\'t really want that do we?
\"In the last 12 months 100,000 private sector jobs have been lost and yet you\'ve created 30,000 public sector jobs. Prime Minister, you cannot carry on forever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecidented engorgement of the unproductive bit. You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt.\" - Daniel Hannan

Follow Me on Twitter!

Offline videoholic

  • Silly little freak
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 18034
  • Karma: +10/-0
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2003, 05:29:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by luckee
People want to goto war...yet we dont have full blown proof.

We are probably going to attack anyway...

Yet every shakes their heads and wonder why ships, stations,  embassies abroad, and buildings at home bombed.


No one WANTS to go to war.  But it is inevitable.  These people are freaks.  They praised Allah for making the COlumbia blow up.  Yeah, that\'s normal.
I wear a necklace now because I like to know when I\'m upside down.
 kopking: \"i really think that i how that guy os on he weekend\"
TheOmen speaking of women: \"they\'re good at what they do, for what they are.\"
Swifdi:

Offline luckee
  • Resident Pimp
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7503
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2003, 05:31:59 PM »
I doubt the same ppl would still be hanging around now that some info has been released. Most of it is OTA stuff and sattelite pix anyway.
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline Coredweller
  • The War on Error
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5654
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2003, 05:34:23 PM »
I\'m actually in favor of taking the dude out... IF NECESSARY.

I just need someone to prove to me that it\'s necessary.

Everyone is saying that\'s it\'s so obvious that he\'s building NBC weapons, but no one provides adequate proof.  

I\'m saying that for the benefit of people like me here in the US, and everywhere else in the world, let\'s just prove the case before taking action.  Otherwise we are nothing but an enormous vigilante mob.  We need to act more like a legitimate police force and get a search warrant before kicking in the door with guns blazing.
ZmÒëĎCęЯ
Let the Eagle Soar!
\"The American Dream: You have to be asleep to believe it.\"  - George Carlin

Offline Ryu
  • Greatest Detective
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3990
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://altimus-labs.com/hawk/
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2003, 05:34:45 PM »
Maybe people just take too much offense with us taking up the first strike position on this.  It\'s pretty pathetic to have to quote a movie to get the point across, but here goes anyways:

Quote
Wanting people to listen, you can\'t just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You have to hit them with a sledgehammer, and then you\'ll notice you\'ve got their strict attention.


Maybe that so called sledgehammer could be placed right in someone\'s backyard and then vaporize an entire city.  Maybe then, the world will listen.

***Edit, a lot of people replied while i was finding that quote so let me respond to some stuff:

The UN was supposed to do that (the whole search warrant policing analogy), but they\'re schedule might as well have been placed on the Internet for all to download and take a look at.  If the criminals who have the weapons know we are coming, do people honestly think they\'re going to sit idley by and let the police come knocking at their door and find exactly what it is they\'re up to?
Don\'t you ever touch my cape.
-Ryu

Offline luckee
  • Resident Pimp
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7503
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2003, 05:36:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by videoholic


No one WANTS to go to war.  But it is inevitable.  These people are freaks.  They praised Allah for making the COlumbia blow up.  Yeah, that\'s normal.



Thats there perrogative, not like ppl in the US dont celebrate certain negative things that happen to just about anyone else in the world. There are bad types of ppl all over the world.


*edit Ryu, or maybe then they will hate us even more and have even more ppl trying to attack us.
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline GigaShadow
  • Information Minister
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5610
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2003, 05:37:08 PM »
I can\'t believe some people.  Powell presented VERY STRONG evidence that Iraq is violating UN Resolutions.  What other proof besides intercepted communications about moving stuff, video footage of an Iraqi Mig simulating spreading anthrax, photographs of chemical bunkers and mobile labs do some of you need?  An Iraqi Mig to fly over your house dropping anthrax????!!  Even then, I still doubt some of those who don\'t believe he is hiding anything would believe it.  Some expect us to show everything we have along with names of all our informants and layouts of all our technical equipment to show proof... that is very naive and stupid.

His linking terrorism to Iraq was a bit harder to understand, but it would be very hard to find physical proof of such a thing and we wouldn\'t even have hard proof even if terrorists attacked us using weapons or training they got from Iraq.  

His point is very clear though... if the UN fails to back up its own resolutions then it is an invalid entity.

If we go this alone (or with just Britain and some help from Russia) we should just drop out of the UN and kick them out of NY.  See how long it lasts without the US.  We pay the most in dues and always provide troops for peacekeeping duties and the such...
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
[/i]
[/size]One Big Ass Mistake America

Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline luckee
  • Resident Pimp
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7503
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2003, 05:41:41 PM »
Russia doesnt want in anymore, unless something has changed since 2pm.

I think some of you always seem to forget that not all of us anti-war ppl think he should stay in power.
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

Offline ##RaCeR##
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4963
  • Karma: +10/-0
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2003, 05:42:44 PM »
From my understanding, the only countries the US has backing them on this war is Britain, Russia and Australia. France has turned their back, as has Japan.

Which countries are a part of the UN and which ones aren\'t? Is it really integral that the UN play a part in all of this?

Also, how can Bush say he\'s willing to use nuclear weapons against Iraq if they use them against US. I mean, isn\'t the whole point of this war for Iraq to disarm weapons of mass destruction? So why are the US allowed to have them but Iraq isnt???

Offline GigaShadow
  • Information Minister
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5610
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2003, 05:44:33 PM »
The sad reality is we have to go in.  Even then, I doubt we will actually get him, but he will no longer be in power.  That is my main point of why I think it is necessary to go to war.  If I thought for a second it was an option to just take his sorry ass out, I would be right behind the rest of you in opposing military action.  Unfortunately nothing anyone says is going to convince me that we can just kill him and leave.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
[/i]
[/size]One Big Ass Mistake America

Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline GigaShadow
  • Information Minister
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5610
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2003, 05:47:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
From my understanding, the only countries the US has backing them on this war is Britain, Russia and Australia. France has turned their back, as has Japan.

Which countries are a part of the UN and which ones aren\'t? Is it really integral that the UN play a part in all of this?

Also, how can Bush say he\'s willing to use nuclear weapons against Iraq if they use them against US. I mean, isn\'t the whole point of this war for Iraq to disarm weapons of mass destruction? So why are the US allowed to have them but Iraq isnt???


The Security Council is all that really matters in the UN and even then only the countries with veto power matter there.  The US, France, Russia, the UK and China all have veto power.  I still wonder how France made the cut... it is made up of the victorious allies from WW2...
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
[/i]
[/size]One Big Ass Mistake America

Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline Coredweller
  • The War on Error
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5654
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2003, 05:47:38 PM »
I don\'t see how you can call that evidence VERY STRONG.

1.  "intercepted communications about moving stuff" - WHAT STUFF?  A modified vehicle of some kind.  So, because they were talking about moving it, that must mean that it\'s incriminating?  That\'s not proof.

2.  "video footage of an Iraqi Mig simulating spreading anthrax" - I haven\'t seen it, but it\'s hard for me to imagine that this could be incriminating in any way.

3.  "photographs of chemical bunkers and mobile labs."  Photographs are always open to interpretation.  This could be evidence for a photo technician who knows everything about Iraqi construction methods and the designs of chemical labs, but to the layman it\'s meaningless.  Therefore it requres that we trust the photo interpreters to accept it as hard evidence.  Maybe it is, but I think we need something more easily acceptable.  Kennedy\'s photos of the russian missles on the deck of a ship were much more easily understandable than this stuff.

4.  Powell said Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has personally barred Iraqi scientists from participating in interviews with U.N. inspectors and forced them "to sign documents acknowledging that divulging information is punishable by death."   Not strictly evidence of any wrongdoing.

5.  Powell said Iraq has failed to account for its stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons, including four tons of the nerve gas VX. "We have evidence these weapons existed," Powell said. "What we don\'t have is evidence from Iraq that they have been destroyed or where they are." Show the evidence that they existed, don\'t just refer to it.

6.  "we have more than a decade of proof that he remains determined to acquire nuclear weapons." What proof?  Show it.

Referring to proof isn\'t the same as showing proof.
ZmÒëĎCęЯ
Let the Eagle Soar!
\"The American Dream: You have to be asleep to believe it.\"  - George Carlin

Offline GigaShadow
  • Information Minister
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5610
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2003, 05:51:26 PM »
What the hell do you think they are referring to??? Baby formula????  They edited that part out of the presentation right?   You honestly believe he isn\'t hiding anything?  I guess that Mig was really crop dusting huh?  It is people like you who won\'t believe until a city is destroyed and millions die.  No offense Core, you are entitled to your opinion, but I have to say you are very wrong in your perspective of this situation.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
[/i]
[/size]One Big Ass Mistake America

Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline Coredweller
  • The War on Error
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5654
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2003, 05:53:35 PM »
My argument is NOT that Saddam is innocent.

He probably needs to be eliminated, but if we do it on our own authority without proving our case, we are creating a HUGE problem for ourselves internationally.

I\'m saying I want our leaders to prove their case to me before I endorse their war.  Is that easy enough to understand?
ZmÒëĎCęЯ
Let the Eagle Soar!
\"The American Dream: You have to be asleep to believe it.\"  - George Carlin

Offline luckee
  • Resident Pimp
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7503
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • http://
Powell\'s key points on Iraq
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2003, 05:53:38 PM »
WHich is part of my point. I dont truely think we would get him either way. I also dont think he will be out of power this time either. His grip in the area is too strong.
\"Booze, broads, and bullshit. If you got all that, what else do you need?\"-Harry Caray

Don\'t cry over spilled milk., It could have been Whiskey.-Me

A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.-George Washington

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk