Refuting The Top Ten Most Annoying Anti-War Cliches

True and false. Political support is sometimes determined by the public. The same can be said with President Bush. If Bush were to...say, fall flat for whatever reason and for whatever issue, and somehow, a Democratic Presidential candidate successfully...say, demonize Bush and got his message out (whatever message it is [in this case, the war with Iraq which the only one who is consistent with their message is Howard Dean]) bye bye Bush. At the moment, the public is behind Bush, but, like Bush Sr., public support can change (he had great approval rating after the Gulf War, but came election time, Clinton was able to win due to the continued recession the US was in [note however, if it wasn\'t for Perot though, Clinton wouldn\'t have won. In a way, Bush Sr. was "Nadarize" so to speak]).

[edit]I believe the same can be said with Tony Blair. Tony Blair is facing a revolt from his own party over Iraq. However, a recent poll shows that, Tony Blair\'s message is getting through and the public will support a war with Iraq...with the backing of the UN of coarse. :cool:

However, like the Reagan and Bush Sr. example (the issue of the Persian Gulf War. The fact that he didn\'t win reelection is another example for another issue ), political leaders do not (and sometimes, should not) use polls in determining the best policy. While getting public behind a certain policy is always a good thing (well, okay, maybe a good thing to leaders only), what the public support may not be whats best for any situation.

Originally posted by Simchoy

[edit]I believe the same can be said with Tony Blair. Tony Blair is facing a revolt from his own party over Iraq. However, a recent poll shows that, Tony Blair\'s message is getting through and the public will support a war with Iraq...with the backing of the UN of coarse. :cool:

.

Not only that but he is also faceing a revolt over Health Care "Reforms" to make the set-up in England and Wales more like the US....

So far 100 Labour MP\'s have singed a letter of protest and the drive to gather votes against is growing day by day...

stop saying coarse for when you say of course. caorse means rough and the only time you see an of in front of it is in little phrases like "of coarse material."

Now you are simply criticizing my spelling instead of the issues I brought up. Wonder why? :rolleyes: Of course, its still helpful to me for pointing things out.

Conservitives labeling all Liberals traitors and communists is the same as Burning an american flag...

I agree. While I am of the group "conseravtive", there are "liberals" who are not "triators" or "communist" (however, communist do believe in things like socialized medicine, welfare state, etc. Something many people who call themselves "liberal" [didn\'t say all of them. But many of them] stand for).

That still doesn\'t make many of those on the streets "patriotic" either.

[Titan]

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Conservitives labeling all Liberals traitors and communists is the same as Burning an american flag...

I\'m a conservative (mostly atleast) and I don\'t label liberals as traitors. Occasionally I do agree with them or I agree with them but the timing isn\'t right for what they are fighting for. I do hate liberals like PETA and antiwar protesters. No they are not traitors (except for PETA ), they just fight for what they believe in.

Originally posted by Simchoy
Now you are simply criticizing my spelling instead of the issues I brought up. Wonder why? :rolleyes: Of course, its still helpful to me for pointing things out.

I don\'t remember how many times I repeated my point. It just didn\'t seem worth it. But what the heck, WE ARE GOING TO WAR. Also, here\'s a quote I stole form someone.

"Naturally the common people don\'t want war, neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are going to be attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

Hermann Goering in 1946 Sound Familiar?

I understand your point. But if that is your only point, then there is no reason in debating since all you are doing is going around in circles clinging onto a catch phrase that doesn\'t fly in the real world. NO ONE wants a war (except maybe lunitic warmongers [which I do NOT believe the leaders are if you are trying to paint them as such]) and yes, war, people die in war. I can give you all these reasons why I don\'t want war (yes, I don\'t) but believe that if it had to come to that, then it has to come to that. We went to the UN in the hopes that they would disarm Saddam, and if Saddam did just that then and there, things would be fine and \'maybe\' there wouldn\'t be a need for war (especially if the UN showed balls and forced Iraq\'s hand then). However, Saddam didn\'t disarm, didn\'t tell everything even to the UN (which, even the UN knows that Iraq hasn\'t complied), and the UN...France and Germany taking their extreme stance that anyone can see is only because of their deals with Iraq, and their anti-American, all this means that war is inevitable.

Now yes, you CAN say that Nazism remained in power by the misuse of patriotism. But, so what? The fact that the Nazis came to power and started the WW2 in the first place also shows the opposite is true.

Peace, though appeasing with dictators and murders can lead only to greater distruction later. Funny how people have selective memory about historic events.

I kept repeating that point, because it has several other implications. I thought u understood this. Let me explain what they are. If the US goes it alone, she will set a dangerous precedent that\'ll have other countries thinking they can go it alone too. If the US goes it alone in Iraq, they\'ll be less reluctant to go it alone in other places, in the future. We\'ll have little wars all arround the world and there\'ll be one big hawk flying everyone, striking whoever it sees fit.

We are not going at it alone.

Ace

You kids are so hard to get through to. I\'ll hang up my towel.

Originally posted by Avatarr
You kids are so hard to get through to. I\'ll hang up my towel.

Alright, I\'ll admit I did not read all of the posts so I am not sure what your point is. Sorry about that. I\'ll go back and read.

Calling me a kid? I am probably old enough to be your father.

Ace

yeah, if you\'re 103 years old...

Originally posted by Avatarr
yeah, if you\'re 103 years old...

Alrighty then, glad to see that there are a few of us old folk shuffling around here.

Ace