Ga ga ga

Are you not in a struggle if you are BEING oppressed?

If the only way to get out of a struggle(and be happy) is to fight off your oppressors then you are doing the right thing, no?

Say you have two opposing forces.  Those forces will continue to fight until one goes down or worse they both go down (die).  That is struggle and it accomplishes nothing.  Egos are the start of it and unfortunately someone\'s ego is going to get bruised and they will act on that...it leads to awful things.  You can trace every single event of oppression to the human ego...

By yielding, that opposing force all of a sudden loses purpose or tires out.  There\'s nothing to fight.  It just is.

EDIT:  I realize that is not the case for some people.  I find myself very fortunate.

Originally posted by Ginko
You can trace every single event of oppression to the human ego...

By yielding, that opposing force all of a sudden loses purpose or tires out.  There\'s nothing to fight.  It just is.

If the oppression is driven by ego, in the first place, why would they lose purpose? The purpose is to stroke their ego, correct? So wouldn\'t yielding only serve to make things worse?

Heh, you are making this harder than it is.

You are lending to that purpose by fighting it.

I\'ll use an example from The Tao of Pooh.

Imagine a cork in some water, naturally the cork floats as that\'s what it does.  You don\'t want the cork to float so you try to push it to the bottom...but wait a minute, it comes back up.  What the hell? I want you to stay down!  You can try all you want by that cork is going to come up...you end up losing and wasting your time.  You became a victim of your own ego wanting to change that around you instead of taking it for what it is.

When a whole group of the above get together the results can be and have been disasterous.

Originally posted by Ginko
Imagine a cork in some water, naturally the cork floats as that\'s what it does.  You don\'t want the cork to float so you try to push it to the bottom...but wait a minute, it comes back up.  What the hell? I want you to stay down!  You can try all you want by that cork is going to come up...you end up losing and wasting your time.  You became a victim of your own ego wanting to change that around you instead of taking it for what it is.

Yes but the cork is not yielding to the push. Even when you push the cork down it is still pushing back up. You are just more powerful. Its the fact that the cork keeps pushing to the top that frustrates you. If the cork just yielded to your push it would sink to the bottom and never rise up.

But it will never sink to the bottom because that\'s not its\' nature.

The example is to merely illustrate that things are as they are and it is us who try to change them for our own use to satisfy our wants.  Just as we try to change the people around us to satisfy what we perceive to be right and wrong.  It will be a never ending struggle and you will never truly be happy.

You wouldn\'t get frustrated if you just accepted things are as they are.

It feels as if I\'ve gone around in a circle several times.

Originally posted by Ginko
But it will never sink to the bottom because that\'s not its\' nature.

Exactly, its not in its nature to yield to the push. Its nature is to push BACK and rise to the top.

No, we are the only ones pushing.  The cork just is.

Hmm, maybe we should suggest "The Tao of Pooh" to Black Samurai. If you are interested Black Samurai, I really suggest you check it out, Ginko\'s entire argument is based partially upon this book, it has changed my life.

Exactly, its not in its nature to yield to the push. Its nature is to push BACK and rise to the top.

Its nature is to be a cork, and nothing more. Everything has a point, and its point cannot exceed its limitations. It has no brain, theirfor it cannot think, it cannot want to push, or yield, it is just a cork. And asking "Why?" is trivial in the pursuit of knowledge, knowledge only confuses and muddles things.

Wait. The cork is the oppressed and the hand is the oppressor, right?

Isn\'t that the symbolism you were going for?

In a sense yes.

Our natures change with actions, I am now the "Typist", but if I were to stop typing, I wouldnt be the "Typist", I am "Human"

Its all very hard to describe in words, Its almost impossible.

Originally posted by Black Samurai
Wait. The cork is the oppressed and the hand is the oppressor, right?

Isn\'t that the symbolism you were going for?

Like spudz said, in a way.

To do without doing you will naturally use that around you to your benefit rather than try to change it to what it simply won\'t be.  Otherwise you will be in a constant struggle against the way things just are.

People try to change the way things are instead of using them to their benefit.  Much like the cork, that is just a life time fight right there.  You\'ll eventually go down and the cork will still just be.:cool:

Originally posted by Samwise
Let me rephrase my question for you Freestylah. I wanted to know how your religion helps you in deciding what to do with your life.

I think you might be influenced by your age. When I was your age I didn\'t care/think about the future either... You go to school, hang out with your friends and so on, and that takes up the better part of your life. When you get older though you tend to think more about what you wanna do with your life. Even the most religious people would \'have to\' do something with their lives (or choose not to, if they\'re section 8).

Understand me now?

Religion doesn\'t control me, God does. I live accordingly, and go about my way, in the meanwhile trying to bring glory to him and try and share him with others as much as possible.

I\'m 17 years old, and believe me the future is on my mind constantly. I\'m not as feeble-minded as you may think. However I do not worry because regardless of what happens, I know that things work out.

Religion doesn\'t control me, God does.

No one can control another human being, only be an influence.

Sometimes I wonder about my future as well, the only thing promising is my band- when we practice together I know we have the skill, and determination. But I also know its almost futile to think we will be come popular, or release a big time CD.

I\'m 17 years old, and believe me the future is on my mind constantly.

In defense of SwifDi: At 17 years of age, a man can make up his mind. At 10 years of age a child can choose his path, its wisdom. Wisdom does not always come with age, it comes with experience. Age usually comes in hand with experience.

I also worry about some of my point of views; I am trying my best not to contradict myself, but human existance is a questionable state of mind. I do ask "Why?", but when I really start to think about it I just sit and relax and write music- Its human instinct to ask questions, but we can control it to a degree.

Ummm....last thing i read was about humans true nature and i just stopped reading so ill start off from there.


I don\'t beleive that true nature exists in humans. We have a conciouse which allows us to make our own decisions even if others would not make that decision.

Humans are unique because animals have instincts that they react to certain situations in the same way. Two different humans can be faced with the same situation and do 2 totally different things.

Every human is different and has his or her own thoughts. That is what seperates us from animals. Intelligence lets hus not have a nature, we can\'t have a nature while having a concious.

The only time someone may show any type of human nature is when you must compete for survival. The only thing that might show that humans dont have a nature in that situation is that different humans can come uo with different ways to survive.