Tonight\'s Presidential Debate (Reactions)

i didn\'t watch the debate cause a soprano\'s rerun was on, BUT bush will win the election

bank on it

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Kerry won, Bush didn\'t even say anything about actual plans.

Say what?  What plans does Kerry have DH?  Name something original that Kerry has proposed that Bush is not already doing.

Originally posted by Ginko
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6123733/

Who won the debate?

*432090 responses

Bush -- 29%
Kerry -- 71%

(10-second pause......)


[size=10]OWNED.[/size]

Seriously, these polls aren\'t all that reliable but I haven\'t seen one leaning in favor of Bush.

Dumbest comment yet. :rolleyes:

We\'re using an internet poll for info on who won the debate?

I will just point out some of the "flip flops" Kerry made in the debate since some seem quite dazzled by Kerry\'s debate style.

Kerry actually changed his position during the debate itself. When Jim Lehrer invoked Kerry’s testimony before the Senate upon returning from Vietnam and asked him if the war in Iraq was a mistake, Kerry quickly said, “no!” He turned right around in an exchange with the President over Kerry’s vote against the $87 billion said plainly that the invasion was a mistake. Kerry himself illustrated the President’s charge of sending mixed messages.

On the North Korea question, Senator Kerry voiced a straightforward appeasement strategy. Several times he repeated his intention to give in to North Korea’s demand for bi-lateral talks with the U.S.. So on Iraq, Kerry attacks the President for not being multilateral, which is untrue, and on North Korea he attacks the President on being multilateral. “Mixed Messages” is an understatement.

Finally, I was appalled at Kerry\'s suggestion that he would give oil rich Iran nuclear fuel to make sure they used it for civilian purposes. That’s exactly what happened in North Korea. :rolleyes:

It is also worthy to note that Gore supposedly won the first debate in 2000 election as well and we all see what happened with that.  As LIC said earlier this week - the debates really don\'t mean as much as people think they do.

Dumbest comment yet.

We\'re using an internet poll for info on who won the debate?

Can tell you two are the spin doctors in the group...did you even see the the sentence below the enormous "owned"?  I claimed they\'re "not reliable ...", case closed.

It is also worthy to note that Gore supposedly won the first debate in 2000 election as well and we all see what happened with that.

Gore won all the debates and clearly led in the debate polls, but he came across like an ass while Bush came across as the underdog.  America loves the underdog.    

Say what? What plans does Kerry have DH? Name something original that Kerry has proposed that Bush is not already doing.

Rebuilding the coalition is Kerry\'s strongest point and it\'s a subject where Bush is clearly lacking.  

He still has NO clear position on Iraq.

I ask what\'s not clear about his position on Iraq?

Kerry -
It was a mistake going in
What we\'re doing isn\'t working
Let\'s try to rectify what we can

Let\'s make one thing crystal clear...the war on terror will never be over.  The best we can do is get allied forces to help contain it, not shun them.

Bush was very clear on where he stands on foreign policy. Kerry stated he would train more Iraqi\'s faster - Bush is already doing that. Kerry gave some ridiculous time table on withdrawal from Iraq.

Oh yes, the 100,000 trained which later turned out to be half that number and even then there\'s a question as to how trained they are.

He is under the false impression that other countries are going to come in and take the place of American troops.

This is the part where I mention the coalition again.  It\'s in need of serious damage control to strengthen our allie forces, I know it, you know it.

Originally posted by Ginko
Can tell you two are the spin doctors in the group...did you even see the the sentence below the enormous "owned"?  I claimed they\'re "not reliable ...", case closed.

Like I said dumbest comment yet.

Originally posted by Ginko

Gore won all the debates and clearly led in the debate polls, but he came across like an ass while Bush came across as the underdog.  America loves the underdog.    

Actually he lost the last two - but that doesn\'t matter as you seem to be agreeing with what I said.

Originally posted by Ginko


Rebuilding the coalition is Kerry\'s strongest point and it\'s a subject where Bush is clearly lacking.

Again I ask who is going to join this coalition?  Who is going to send troops to Iraq?  John Kerry is living in a fantasy world.

Originally posted by Ginko


I ask what\'s not clear about his position on Iraq?

Kerry -
It was a mistake going in
What we\'re doing isn\'t working
Let\'s try to rectify what we can

Kerry actually changed his position during the debate itself. When Jim Lehrer invoked Kerry’s testimony before the Senate upon returning from Vietnam and asked him if the war in Iraq was a mistake, Kerry quickly said, “no!” He turned right around in an exchange with the President over Kerry’s vote against the $87 billion said plainly that the invasion was a mistake. Kerry himself illustrated the President’s charge of sending mixed messages.

You call that a clear message?  He can\'t even decide if it was a mistake or not.

Originally posted by Ginko


This is the part where I mention the coalition again.  It\'s in need of serious damage control to strengthen our allie forces, I know it, you know it.

Again... who is going to send troops to Iraq in any significant number so that we can pull out?

On another note Kerry did hint at increasing the size of the army last night - I wonder how he is going to do that? :rolleyes:

Like I said dumbest comment yet.

:rolleyes:  Please remember this is just a discussion and to chill out.  I posted that poll and clearly said it wasn\'t reliable.  Perhaps I should have put a smiley face to make it more obvious not to take it seriously.

Again I ask who is going to join this coalition? Who is going to send troops to Iraq? John Kerry is living in a fantasy world.

Again... who is going to send troops to Iraq in any significant number so that we can pull out?

As I commented and as I\'ve seen on the news, Bush is doing more harm than he is good when it comes to this area.  Kerry says he can fix it, Bush makes no mention of it other than "I\'ve done what I can."  His arrogance, impulsiveness, and ignorance just doesn\'t help the situation.

Kerry actually changed his position during the debate itself. When Jim Lehrer invoked Kerry’s testimony before the Senate upon returning from Vietnam and asked him if the war in Iraq was a mistake, Kerry quickly said, “no!” He turned right around in an exchange with the President over Kerry’s vote against the $87 billion said plainly that the invasion was a mistake. Kerry himself illustrated the President’s charge of sending mixed messages.

You call that a clear message? He can\'t even decide if it was a mistake or not.

Speaking on the debate last night the message was...

We are at war with Iraq because of a "colassal error of judgement" as Kerry has said in the past.  He clearly doesn\'t agree with why we\'re at war but has clear intentions to fix it.  Whether he has solid ideals that can actually work is to be determined, then again the same goes for Bush.

Originally posted by Ginko

As I commented and as I\'ve seen on the news, Bush is doing more harm than he is good when it comes to this area.  Kerry says he can fix it, Bush makes no mention of it other than "I\'ve done what I can."  His arrogance, impulsiveness, and ignorance just doesn\'t help the situation.

Really?  How has Bush not helped the situation.  Oh yes how could I forget... the answer to all of our problems is to "rebuild alliances." :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Ginko


Speaking on the debate last night the message was...

We are at war with Iraq because of a "colassal error of judgement" as Kerry has said in the past.  He clearly doesn\'t agree with why we\'re at war but has clear intentions to fix it.  Whether he has solid ideals that can actually work is to be determined, then again the same goes for Bush.

This debate really didn\'t answer any questions on either side.  It was more of the same message from both parties.  This is why most see it as a draw regarding content.  Maybe the format wasn\'t good for either side - maybe the townhall style will make the next one more interesting.

2. He still has NO clear position on Iraq.

Kerry\'s position on Iraq is to re-think the post Iraq political construtcion policy. He clearly stated he will instead have summits including European and Middle Eastern leaders to decide what is the best way to procede.

How much clearer can you get?
1. Have Summits
2. Form new plan
3. Complete plan
4. Leave


The key difference is the involvement of Euro and Middle Eastern leaders.

Really? How has Bush not helped the situation. Oh yes how could I forget... the answer to all of our problems is to "rebuild alliances."

I just love how you put a spin on everything.  There\'s not one solution to all the problems and there never will be, but rebuilding alliances is a damn good start.

Bush\'s international affairs have met criticism so I know I\'m not just pulling this out of my ass.

- maybe the townhall style will make the next one more interesting.

I want Kerry to outline a realisitic plan and I want to hear something from Bush that tells me he\'s doing everything possible to reconcile, resolve, and restructure otherwise I\'d rather see someone else give it a go.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Kerry actually changed his position during the debate itself. When Jim Lehrer invoked Kerry’s testimony before the Senate upon returning from Vietnam and asked him if the war in Iraq was a mistake, Kerry quickly said, “no!” He turned right around in an exchange with the President over Kerry’s vote against the $87 billion said plainly that the invasion was a mistake. Kerry himself illustrated the President’s charge of sending mixed messages.

Kerry didn\'t change his stance at all. He has been saying the same thing all along. He said that Saddam was a threat and that the world is safer without him. Its just that Bush went about it the wrong way. Did you actually watch the debate or are you just getting the post-debate spin?

Kerry CLEARLY came across much better in this debate.

As a matter of fact I would be VERY surprised if Bush does any better on Tuesday when the debate will be on domestic issues. Domestic issues are Bush\'s MAIN weakness.

Neither party may have swung undecided voters to their camp. Still Kerry managed to embolden his supporters and may even bring some closet Kerry supporters out of the closet. Bush may have worried some GOP supporters because despite your(and many conservatives) new claim that the debates mean nothing they, in fact, do.

Lets get a couple of things straight:

DH - Name these countries that are willing to come into Iraq.  France and Germany (the only other Euros who aren\'t there) have said they aren\'t coming no matter what.  As for other Arab countries - you won\'t see a significant presence from them if any.

BS - My question should be can you differentiate substance from style?  Kerry may have looked better, but his message was no less confusing.  He has no plan.  Secondly, do you even follow the news?  The VP debate is scheduled for Tuesday - and then on Friday we have the second Presidential debate which we be a townhall style debate that will cover both foreign and domestic issues.  And you have the nerve to ask if I watched the debate?  :rolleyes:

For liberals such as yourself BS - Polls only count when you are ahead and now it seems debates only matter when your boy comes out on top - even if it is only superficial.  The real winner will be known on November 2nd... or maybe not if the whiny DNC lawyers demand recounts in every battle ground state.

Originally posted by Ginko
I just love how you put a spin on everything.  There\'s not one solution to all the problems and there never will be, but rebuilding alliances is a damn good start.

Bush\'s international affairs have met criticism so I know I\'m not just pulling this out of my ass.

What alliances need rebuilding?  France and Germany - As I have stated numerous times, France and Germany will not be sending troops to Iraq.  Get it? Got it? Good.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
What alliances need rebuilding?  France and Germany - As I have stated numerous times, France and Germany will not be sending troops to Iraq.  Get it? Got it? Good.

Exactly! This is the stuff that drives me nuts. I want details from Kerry on exactly how he plans on getting France or Germany into our camp on the Iraq issue. It\'s not gonna happen because we all know there are deeper issues with these two countries that go deeper than a disagreement on how this war is being waged.

Kerry really is a joke. Why the hell didn\'t Bush just dig him on his senate career? I think he mentioned it once quickly as a joke. Dammit, if I was Bush I would be firing people today.

We all know these debates are about appearances. Not too many Americans give a shit about answers to the questions at hand.