September NPD

[Bobs_Hardware]

Originally posted by Ginko
Nobody ever said that Xbox would outsell PS2\'s total units.  I\'ve already said this and I don\'t see why that\'s so hard to understand?

Xbox will never reach 70 million units.  It\'s not possible.  The Xbox is the ground work, MS has said this repeatedly.  That\'s why "too little, too late" doesn\'t make any sense.  The Xbox has established itself, with a userbase and a healthy amount of developer support, and has set up MS for next gen.

^Why is that hard to comprehend?  



The PS2 is the successor the best selling console in history.  Did anyone expect MS to take over in 3 years time?  Are you out of your mind?

Actually, I think M$ had expected it to. Remember a couple of years ago when M$  conceded defeat for this generation to Sony, as they had "underestimated" them? And that they were shifting forcus to next generation? I believe they gave the reason of the fact that Sony had a year head start on them. Which also happened to be the first time that they stated that the XBox 2 would be out before the PS3. As they wouldn\'t give Sony the same chance (paraphrasing from memory).

This whole business of just being groundwork for the next generation hadn\'t even entered their minds until then. And countless people jumped on it and started screaming at anyone who whinged about XBox being nowhere near PS2\'s userbase "BUT MICROSOFT WERE NEVER TRYING TO BEAT SONY THIS GENERATION! ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD THINK THEY COULD OVERTAKE THEM" etc. etc. <-- I think that\'s an actual quote I found at TXB once.

If you don\'t agree then how would you explain that the N64 reached less than a third of the Playstation userbase for reason other than it didn\'t have the selection of games the competition had?

Oh come on. There are many reasons as to why the N64 was much smaller. Eik raised a very good point. Sony introduced a whole new world of advertising and marketting to the table. Everything from well timed price-drops to the introduction of the platinum range (around the same time of the N64 launch, I believe) helped contribute greatly.

Though, a lack of games was another major contributor. Nintendo\'s many hardware mistakes (such as cart inclusion) drove developers away.

Dreamcast was DOA.

And that explains why it was the most successful console launch in history?


Dammit, I didn\'t expect this entire post to be against you Ginky, but.. I couldn\'t find all the other quotes I was planning to argue against.

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware

And that explains why it was the most successful console launch in history?

At the time. Then PS2 came out.

I don\'t know much, but I know MS knows business and is a smart company.  I doubt that they really expected to catch and beat Sony.  I can\'t believe that they thought they could win when no one else in the industry nor any financial analyst gave them any chance at all to even succeed.

MS knew there\'d be growing pains and knew it was an investment.  That statement that you mention BH, was more of a PR, rally the troops, please the stockholders type thing.

MS wouldn\'t be where they are (not only speaking of xbox) if they had such horrible expectations and market researchers.  It doesn\'t make sense and just ain\'t true.

Originally posted by Bobs_Hardware
Actually, I think M$ had expected it to. Remember a couple of years ago when M$  conceded defeat for this generation to Sony, as they had "underestimated" them? And that they were shifting forcus to next generation? I believe they gave the reason of the fact that Sony had a year head start on them. Which also happened to be the first time that they stated that the XBox 2 would be out before the PS3. As they wouldn\'t give Sony the same chance (paraphrasing from memory).

You\'d have to pull some major quotage to have me believe that MS expected to start outselling PS2 from the get go or shortly after.  It\'s a ridiculous thought when you compare what the Xbox had to offer in terms of games to what PS2 had and what was coming.  I remember their projections being optimistic but hardly unbelievable and I think outselling the PS2 at the time was unbelievable.  

This whole business of just being groundwork for the next generation hadn\'t even entered their minds until then. And countless people jumped on it and started screaming at anyone who whinged about XBox being nowhere near PS2\'s userbase "BUT MICROSOFT WERE NEVER TRYING TO BEAT SONY THIS GENERATION! ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD THINK THEY COULD OVERTAKE THEM" etc. etc. <-- I think that\'s an actual quote I found at TXB once.

But the Xbox is the groundwork no matter how you look at it and that\'s obvious since the successor to the Xbox has been in development since the original released.  I believe the initial plans included two consoles, correct?  I\'ll go looking for some articles as I\'m not entirely sure myself.

Oh come on. There are many reasons as to why the N64 was much smaller. Eik raised a very good point. Sony introduced a whole new world of advertising and marketting to the table. Everything from well timed price-drops to the introduction of the platinum range (around the same time of the N64 launch, I believe) helped contribute greatly.

Though, a lack of games was another major contributor. Nintendo\'s many hardware mistakes (such as cart inclusion) drove developers away.

Well, if you look at it from a lack games, which I commented, then there\'s obviously a lack of developers and that has to do with the reasons I mentioned well over a page back that had to do with hardware and cartridge issues.

but thanks for reiterating my point?

And that explains why it was the most successful console launch in history?

And before that the N64 was the most successful console launch in history, look what happened there.  Games sell hardware and with developer support for the DC waiting on the fence so close to PS2...well, you know what happened.

Dammit, I didn\'t expect this entire post to be against you Ginky, but.. I couldn\'t find all the other quotes I was planning to argue against.

I just gave you some more to discuss:)

Found some articles for the Xbox forecast...

___________________________________________________

Rosoff agreed. "From everything I\'ve seen, Japan is a secondary market for Xbox. Microsoft is treating America as their primary market, and I think that\'s a reasonable decision," he said. "Sales of 4.5 (million) to 6 million units in a year is not insurmountable, with the majority of that coming from American sales. And I think those kind of numbers are enough to make them a major player in the market.

>>>Link<<<
November 15th, 2001
There was a forecast for 4.5 to 6 million, in one year, before the launch of the Xbox.  
___________________________________________________

Microsoft last week reported that it had sold 3.9 million Xbox units worldwide during its 2002 fiscal year, which ended June 30, at the high end of lowered estimates the company gave after the console\'s disappointing debuts in Japan and Europe. Sales continue to be minimal in Japan, with the latest figures from research firm Dengeki showing year-to-date Xbox sales there at about 236,000, compared with 2.08 million PlayStation 2 units. The PlayStation 2, which launched a year before Xbox, has sold more than 30 million units worldwide.

>>>Link<<<
July 23rd, 2002
The 4.5 to 6 million number was actually for the end of MS\'s fiscal year, June 30th, 2002. MS came in short of the forecast at 3.9 million units sold.  

___________________________________________________

Mitch Koch, vice president of retail sales for Microsoft\'s games division, said the company has sold 8 million Xbox units to date. With the holiday sales season over, Microsoft expects to sell about a million more by the end of the company\'s fiscal year June 30.

"We expect to finish our fiscal year with just over 9 million units sold worldwide," Koch said.

That would bring lifetime sales in line with the lower end of Microsoft estimates, which forecast an installed base of 9 million to 11 million Xbox units worldwide by the end of the fiscal year.

By contrast, market leader Sony announced earlier this week that worldwide shipments for its PlayStation 2 console had surpassed 50 million units.

>>>Link<<<
January 17th, 2003
A full 15 months after they launch they have sold 8 million Xbox\'s and expect a million more by June 30th 2003, bringing the total to 9 million, the lower end of the 9-11 million forecasted.  Meanwhile Sony has shipped 50 million playstations.
___________________________________________________

I\'d find more links but I don\'t think I need to.  MS believed they would do better in Japan and Europe and obviously that didn\'t happen.  Japan, if you ask me, was a waste of time.  Europe was a mess because the Xbox launched higher than the competition.  

Bobo, as far as I can tell MS has just barely kept on track of their sales forecast but nowhere did I see evidence of MS stating they would outsell PS2 on any front.  In fact, one of the links has a MS rep clearly stating that it will take time for them to break in, that was before the US launch.


Concerning whether or not MS had plans for a second console...

John O\'Rourke, marketing director for Microsoft\'s games division, said the company will spend that much to build out the network for online Xbox gaming and to fund research and development for the next version of the console and support for game developers.

>>>Link<<<
May 20th, 2002
Seven months after the launch of the Xbox there is already confirmation they are thinking about the successor to the Xbox. Now, as far as launch dates go, I did find an article saying MS wanted to launch the Xbox 2 in 2006 however it has changed since and they are now aiming for the end of 2005.

Boom!  And arguments to the contrary go to peices.

What do you think you are doing Ginko?  Around here, concerning xbox, facts are to be ignored or replaced by conjecture and half-truths.  I\'m not sure, but this has to be against the forum regulations.

xbox has sold roughly 15 million units to date.

fact.

that is pathetic and laughable.

fact.


everything else is moot

Boom! And arguments to the contrary go to peices.

What do you think you are doing Ginko? Around here, concerning xbox, facts are to be ignored or replaced by conjecture and half-truths. I\'m not sure, but this has to be against the forum regulations.

I\'m sorry, sorry that I can\'t conform to shoveling loads of BS.

xbox has sold roughly 15 million units to date.

fact.

It\'s 15.5 million if you want to throw around facts.

that is pathetic and laughable.

fact.


everything else is moot

Not a fact.  You\'re confusing your opinion with truth, or even rational thought for that matter.

You know what I think is pathetic?  You come in here trying to pass your opinion as fact on whatever it is you were getting at with Halo, which you still have yet to explain, and the fact that you accused me of changing subjects to avoid discussion, which I called you out on, and you have yet to prove it.

That, sir, is pathetic and laughable.  I think it deserves one of these ----> ...maybe even two  --->

feel free to change to subject

i guess "roughly" is a strange word to you, boz.

15.5, wait  maybe it\'s 15,593,183 units sold,  is pathetic any way you wanna spin it.

stomping your feet and crying does not make one thing into another.

You still have yet to prove I\'ve changed the subject on any front, so repeating a false accusation does nothing for you.

It very well could be 15,593,183 and I\'m sure it\'s higher than that considering the last sales figures were from June.  You want to throw around facts then I\'m going to hold you too it rather than let you downplay a figure.  BTW, it\'s most common to round up when you have a decimal figure of .5 or greater.

What am I supposed to think when you say it\'s pathetic?  You\'re far from credible as far as facts go and your opinion is worth less than nothing as far as I\'m concerned.  The only way you\'ll get out of this thread not looking like a complete ass is to provide some sort of arguement, at least then I\'ll know you have a spine.  You haven\'t proven anything in this thread, just like the other threads you\'ve been shut down in, other than you\'re incapable of providing an argument.

Where did you plan to go with calling me boz?  I know you\'re into dead end accusations but seriously, that was dumb even for you.

Look how well I\'m doing at proving points^^^^^

i really miss the old days of console debate.

this new wave of false comparisons and changing topics at every whim is disheartening.  i guess when you have nothing left to bring, this is what it comes to.

you have proved nil.  taking what i say, twisting it around, and throwing it back at me is pathetic.  


you bore me

[Jumpman]

I missed old debates too. Nothing like debates with a few subtle and often non subtle insults thrown in.

well, it\'s not the subtle insults i miss so much as people who had some sort of wit or charisma.

it\'s like pstwo cloned himself

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

well, i\'m right...  Rock salt ownz table salt.  No one proved otherwise... So yea!!