PS3: When to say when (IGN)

Originally posted by clips
ginks i basically said the same thing..only in less words...you lilly livered sap sucka!......

clippers!

your explanation was far too simple and didn\'t provide me with any ammo.  

This thread probably wouldn\'t be this long had it not been for my instigation.

and what\'s with the name calling:(

Originally posted by JBean
consoles get their best games from japan... PC games come mostly from the US and Europe

I think it would be killer if someone like Konami started making some made-for-PC FPS games.  Talk about an FPS with an ultra slick heads-up display and stylish characters to boot.  It\'s very hard to get the Japanese to change course though.  They tend to stick to what they know.

[clips]

Originally posted by Ginko
clippers!

your explanation was far too simple and didn\'t provide me with any ammo.  

This thread probably wouldn\'t be this long had it not been for my instigation.

and what\'s with the name calling:(

heh heh agreed. oh and i was just bustin on ya with the name calling..i take it back.....:beer:

Next gen CONSOLE release before 2006 is silly imo.

I will not buy a next gen console to play games which feature graphics as good or twice as good as HL2 & Doom3.

No : I want next gen console games to look at least 4 times as good.

Both HL2 & Doom 3 have their root code based on old pc tech evolved by the latest DX9.0c tech. Yes, Carmack did make Doom3 with the likes of Geforce3 in mind ; and yes, HL2\'s lighting is a big trick workaround becuz alot of the lighting/shadowing is prerendered baked to texture radiosity, not real time.

Stuff like the Unreal3 engine is slightly hinting at what next gen consoles should offer, not any less.

And they\'re FPS\'s ! Do I see games like Super Monkey Ball, Ico, Katamary Damaci etc. on the current PC platform ?

March 31st : Splinter Cell 3 Chaos Theory is due and it looks friggin\' great at shader model 3.0 with HDR lighting enabled. I really enjoyed the demo and it has several being-in-awe moments.
Yet, I recently finished MGS3 on PS2 and it had alot of those being-in-awe moments too.

So... there I have a 3,2Ghz Gf6800GT equipped PC, a PS2 and a Xbox...

I don\'t see ANY reason to play overgrown next gen console tech demo\'s - becuz, let\'s face it, that is what alot of early next gen console games will be - within 2005, at the cost of a fully new next gen console unit.

I always said and will say again : If MS releases Xbox2 soon it\'ll be a DC but just with better marketing.

Both Sony and Nintendo will do better if they let both their tech and development kits and development libraries mature a bit more up to halfway 2006.

^^exactly

Goddammit!  I just typed up a huge post to reply and I lost it!  

Next gen CONSOLE release before 2006 is silly imo.

I will not buy a next gen console to play games which feature graphics as good or twice as good as HL2 & Doom3.

No : I want next gen console games to look at least 4 times as good.

Both HL2 & Doom 3 have their root code based on old pc tech evolved by the latest DX9.0c tech. Yes, Carmack did make Doom3 with the likes of Geforce3 in mind ; and yes, HL2\'s lighting is a big trick workaround becuz alot of the lighting/shadowing is prerendered baked to texture radiosity, not real time.

Stuff like the Unreal3 engine is slightly hinting at what next gen consoles should offer, not any less.

And they\'re FPS\'s ! Do I see games like Super Monkey Ball, Ico, Katamary Damaci etc. on the current PC platform ?

March 31st : Splinter Cell 3 Chaos Theory is due and it looks friggin\' great at shader model 3.0 with HDR lighting enabled. I really enjoyed the demo and it has several being-in-awe moments.
Yet, I recently finished MGS3 on PS2 and it had alot of those being-in-awe moments too.

So... there I have a 3,2Ghz Gf6800GT equipped PC, a PS2 and a Xbox...

I don\'t see ANY reason to play overgrown next gen console tech demo\'s - becuz, let\'s face it, that is what alot of early next gen console games will be - within 2005, at the cost of a fully new next gen console unit.

Then you\'ll be interested to know that Half-Life 2 and the Unreal Engine 3 run on Xenon without the console breaking a sweat.  Developers still don\'t have final hardware, so there you go.

People who have witnessed what the machines can do say that it is next gen.  

I can only assume that PS3 and Revolution can do the same.

Yet, I recently finished MGS3 on PS2 and it had alot of those being-in-awe moments too.

So... there I have a 3,2Ghz Gf6800GT equipped PC, a PS2 and a Xbox...

Thank you, knowing that you understand that with make this all the easier for you to digest.

We\'re still in the last generation.  Even though Xbox and GC released a full 18 months after PS2 they are still comparable.  It\'s the same generation of technology.  The PC cards out right now are still of last generation.

You still think Xenon, PS3, and Revolution will be so different?  They\'ll all be in the same pool, just at different ends.

I always said and will say again : If MS releases Xbox2 soon it\'ll be a DC but just with better marketing.

Sega and MS are in such different situations that they simply can\'t be compared.

• MS has money, Sega did not
• MS has major third party support, Sega did not
• MS has a continually growing user base.  Sega burned their customers with failed add-ons and an abandoned console.
• The Dreamcast released on Nov. 27th, 1998.  The PS2 released March 4th, 2000.  A full 15 month difference.

The DC, even with the older tech, still held its\' own visually.  It\'s the other factors that were of far more concern and led to the console\'s untimely demise.  

MS doesn\'t have any of those problems.  Sony or Nintendo will not push their console launches past 2006.  

Both Sony and Nintendo will do better if they let both their tech and development kits and development libraries mature a bit more up to halfway 2006.

The differences in hardware are not going to make or break the consoles, it will be the software.  No console has ever launched with a fully matured library or development kits.  Those grow with time and that\'s why we start seeing better games in the second year of the console and on.

We\'re still in the last generation. Even though Xbox and GC released a full 18 months after PS2 they are still comparable. It\'s the same generation of technology. The PC cards out right now are still of last generation.

I\'m not so sure about that.  The newest cards out (6800Ultra & X800xtpe) are more than double the performance of 9800xt & FX5950 (or whatever the hell it was called).  

Although maybe I see your point, the next round of cards are gonna probably have 24 pipes (instead of 16).  Nvidia went with an entirely new chip for the nv4x gpus while ATI just ramped up their old ones from the 9800 days.  

So you think the jump in technology to the next line of PC cards is gonna be bigger than what we just saw?  Not saying you are wrong, but you seem to know your shit better than I.

Originally posted by JBean
I\'m not so sure about that.  The newest cards out (6800Ultra & X800xtpe) are more than double the performance of 9800xt & FX5950 (or whatever the hell it was called).  

Although maybe I see your point, the next round of cards are gonna probably have 24 pipes (instead of 16).  Nvidia went with an entirely new chip for the nv4x gpus while ATI just ramped up their old ones from the 9800 days.  

So you think the jump in technology to the next line of PC cards is gonna be bigger than what we just saw?  Not saying you are wrong, but you seem to know your shit better than I.

I hardly know my shit, I\'m simply relaying info I\'ve picked up.  

I haven\'t been keeping up with Nvidia except to know they built a new chip.

ATi on the other hand...

Quote:
2005-H1 ATI R520 ATI graphics chip said to be nicknamed Fudo (after philosofer or theInq\'s newsman). Earlier rumoured to be the PC-version of the XBox2-specific R500, but more recent sources indicate that it is closer to the R420, while the R500 is part of a new generation. Hyper Memory included.

Quote:
2005-H1 ATI R500 High end ATI graphics chip for XBox2 built in a 90 nm process. Part of a new generation, comparable to R600 for the PC.
Early on reported to "have 10 times higher geometry and 4 times higher pixel performance compared to the RADEON X800 XT".
May support WGF and Pixel and Vertex shaders 3.0 with 128 bit precision.

Quote:
2006 ATI R600 PC-equivalent to the R500 for XBox2. Likely to support WGF.

>>>Link<<<

>>>The Beyond 3d thread I found it in<<<

The next generation ATi card is coming, starting in the Xenon.  We\'re going to see far more than double the performance of current offerings.

I\'ll try to find something on Nvidia...

EDIT: found this:

And basically what it is, it’s on next generation of GPU. As you know we don’t talk about next generation products but it’s our next generation of GPU. And we’ve been working with them to produce a customized version that is customized specifically to connect that to the cell processor, so that they could work together. And the timing and everything is up to them to disclose, although we will have some products a little bit later this year, so this is not that far in the future on the development side.

>>>Link<<<

So you think the jump in technology to the next line of PC cards is gonna be bigger than what we just saw? Not saying you are wrong, but you seem to know your shit better than I.

I think what we\'re seeing right now are early indications of what the next generation will be.

We were able to verify the info and we know that G70 is actually the real codename for Nvidia next generation high end product. We don\'t have a clue why Nvidia dropped its NV number nomenclature but this might actually mean that Nvidia is turning the page and that it will present something out of this world. The G70 won\'t be based on any existing NV40 marchitecture and it won\'t be anything like NV47.5, we mean not just an upgrade to existing marchitecture.

so yes, it looks like nvidia is making an entirely new chip as is ATi.  Guess they had to for the 6800, 6600 series cards as the fx5200-fx5900\'s sucked so hard and there is no way an updated nv4x chip could keep up with the next gen Ati stuff it sounds like.

Originally posted by JBean
so yes, it looks like nvidia is making an entirely new chip as is ATi.  Guess they had to for the 6800, 6600 series cards as the fx5200-fx5900\'s sucked so hard.

Good find.

I editted some more info into my post above.

Originally posted by Ginko
Goddammit!  I just typed up a huge post to reply and I lost it!  



Then you\'ll be interested to know that Half-Life 2 and the Unreal Engine 3 run on Xenon without the console breaking a sweat.  Developers still don\'t have final hardware, so there you go.

People who have witnessed what the machines can do say that it is next gen.  

I can only assume that PS3 and Revolution can do the same.



Thank you, knowing that you understand that with make this all the easier for you to digest.

We\'re still in the last generation.  Even though Xbox and GC released a full 18 months after PS2 they are still comparable.  It\'s the same generation of technology.  The PC cards out right now are still of last generation.

You still think Xenon, PS3, and Revolution will be so different?  They\'ll all be in the same pool, just at different ends.



Sega and MS are in such different situations that they simply can\'t be compared.

• MS has money, Sega did not
• MS has major third party support, Sega did not
• MS has a continually growing user base.  Sega burned their customers with failed add-ons and an abandoned console.
• The Dreamcast released on Nov. 27th, 1998.  The PS2 released March 4th, 2000.  A full 15 month difference.

The DC, even with the older tech, still held its\' own visually.  It\'s the other factors that were of far more concern and led to the console\'s untimely demise.  

MS doesn\'t have any of those problems.  Sony or Nintendo will not push their console launches past 2006.  



The differences in hardware are not going to make or break the consoles, it will be the software.  No console has ever launched with a fully matured library or development kits.  Those grow with time and that\'s why we start seeing better games in the second year of the console and on. [/B]

You are creating non existing arguements again

Originally posted by Unicron!
You are creating non existing arguements again

Tell me where I\'m creating non-issues concerning the thread...

Or, to make it easier for you, tell me where I didn\'t directly reply to one of Knotter\'s concerns.

I am bored to start quoting and debating with someone else\'s post as if it was mine
Wait for his reply.

Then bring up one of yours, I\'m not going anywhere...

Ah, c\'mon .. it\'s Nvidia who\'s treading sm3.0 steps right here right now with NV40.

If they\'d, Ati & Nvidia put speed refresh GPU\'s of current gpu cores into next gen consoles that would be a major shame.

That sm3.0 is, as we speak, beginning to become standard in the developer world.

It would be very unwise for console makers to force console gamesdevelopers into that high end development pipeline within 2005 ; by which i mean : having those games ready in 05

The hardware is NOT the problem. The transition for developers IS, if you have them rush it into 05.
Even though there\'ll be fancy @ss XNA and PS3 dev libraries development cycles will at least double in complexity thus effecting their bussiness model as well.

To conclude : we should NOT use HL2 and Doom3 as measurement marks for what next gen could or should be.
They\'re OLD tech. No use naming them in any discussion about the potential for next gen consoles.

The Unreal3 engine however IS a indicative of some of the graphics features ( note how I do not say \'performance\' ). That engine how it is still has fairly limited Geometry. I doubt most pc devs even comprehend right now how much money, time and assets making such a next gen engine game will take.

MS may go ahead for all I care. But they should look surprised if PS3 will do realtime radiosity on which an early bird Xbox2 will choke.

Releasing those consoles early will do neither the console companies nor the gamers nor the games developers a favor. (While the PC guys are laughing their @ss off to see any early release console age like hell compared to the next Ati or Nvidia refresh, faster than if that console had been released later).