ATI & MS unviel xbox360 gpu official

Originally posted by QuDDus
Nvidia is producing  a dumb down version of the G70 for ps3.

No they aren\'t. Of course, any new gpu developed after RSX will be better... so yeah, that makes it easy to say G70 will be better when it hits the pc market some time later.

Nobody\'s \'affraid\' that Xenos could be more "powerfull" than RSX, it\'s just that you seem to take that for a fact already without any solid evidence.

I mean, I could easily reverse the Edram argument and the 325 million transistor facts as ; facts that Xbox360 actually  needs that 10mb of Edram to do 1080i at all and that the amount of 325 mil.  transistors is the sum of the transistors on Xenos, the 10mb Edram sillicon and the memory controller it acts like. Plus, it\'s a chip devided over 2 dies connected by a bus which of course has no infinite bandwidth....

Like I said... final RSX the performance numbers for stuff that matters like fillrate, efficiency of shaderpaths etc will  be required to make a fair Xenos - RSX comparison at a basic level.

I know that RSX has a dedicated bus to acces the Xdram. Rambus, the company which makes Xdram was asked about this matter in light of the Xenos - RSX comparison and they\'re certain the Xdram is so fast to withstand any comparison to the Xenos\' Edram method.

Of course, specs aside, the games on each platform will show which looks visually most pleasing on overall scale.

Originally posted by QuDDus
Why are people so scared to think that xbox360 has a better gpu or may output better performance. Which I think they both will have great graphics. And nobody has yet determined which design is better.

Only time will tell as to which company designs allows developers to produce better games.

 Xbox already has a better gpu than ps2. Nvidia is producing  a dumb down version of the G70 for ps3. The cell will be able to handle things that gpu can\'t. They will be able to work as one.

1st. you sure seem to not want to accpet the possibility that the RSX will be measurably better then the ATI GPU in Xbox 360...

Myself I just like the technology.


2nd. The RSX is anything but a dumbed down version of the Nvidia G70. It is tweaked to match the performance of the PS3\'s Cell processor.

http://anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2423&p=3

1.) NVIDIA stated that they had never had as powerful a CPU as Cell, and thus the RSX GPU has to be able to swallow a much larger command stream than any of the PC GPUs as current generation CPUs are pretty bad at keeping the GPU fed.

2) The RSX GPU has a 35GB/s link to the CPU, much greater than any desktop GPU, and thus the turbo cache architecture needs to be reworked quite a bit for the console GPU to take better advantage of the plethora of bandwidth. Functional unit latencies must be adjusted, buffer sizes have to be changed, etc...

According to this quote there is no PC CPU that can feed the G70. Therefore the RSX has been tuned to be able to accept the massive amount of data the Cell is capable of throwing at it. If anything the PC version of the G70 is "dumbed down"


Also of interesting note the ATI GPU in the Xbox 360 also serves as the SYSTEMS memory controller. That has to impact the GPU somewhat since the memory controller is part of the chip and services the CPU and GPU

http://anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2423&p=2

Remember that in addition to functioning as a GPU, ATI\'s chip must also function as a memory controller for the 3-core PPC CPU in the Xbox 360. The memory controller services both the GPU and the CPU\'s needs, and as we mentioned before the controller is 256-bits wide and interfaces to 512MB of unified GDDR3 memory running at 700MHz. The memory controller resides on the parent die.

I do agree that the embedded Edram is going to give the ATI some serious improved performance, but as far as "released" specs go the PS3 and the RSX defintiely look more impressive on paper and tech demos.  

However I do agree with your theory that its all irrelevant until we see and play some games.

[BizioEE]

Thanks ddaryl  nice reading !

Originally posted by ddaryl
1st. you sure seem to not want to accpet the possibility that the RSX will be measurably better then the ATI GPU in Xbox 360...

Myself I just like the technology.


2nd. The RSX is anything but a dumbed down version of the Nvidia G70. It is tweaked to match the performance of the PS3\'s Cell processor.

http://anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2423&p=3

 

According to this quote there is no PC CPU that can feed the G70. Therefore the RSX has been tuned to be able to accept the massive amount of data the Cell is capable of throwing at it. If anything the PC version of the G70 is "dumbed down"


Also of interesting note the ATI GPU in the Xbox 360 also serves as the SYSTEMS memory controller. That has to impact the GPU somewhat since the memory controller is part of the chip and services the CPU and GPU

http://anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2423&p=2

 


I do agree that the embedded Edram is going to give the ATI some serious improved performance, but as far as "released" specs go the PS3 and the RSX defintiely look more impressive on paper and tech demos.  

However I do agree with your theory that its all irrelevant until we see and play some games.

What you fail to see is that the edram gives the xbox gpu a huge advantage. Unlike the ps3 the gpu and vram will be sucked up by hi def res and FSAA.

Originally posted by QuDDus
What you fail to see is that the edram gives the xbox gpu a huge advantage. Unlike the ps3 the gpu and vram will be sucked up by hi def res and FSAA.

The RSX still has over 125 transitors on its chip that is not memory or memory controller. Those extra transistors represent graphical horsepower that will handle the high def and FSAA or whatever developers want the graphics horsepower of the RSX to do.

I think the Edram on the ATI GPU makes FSAA easy, but I still think NVidia\'s chip is more impressive at this junction. We\'ll have to wait for the final specs of the RSX to really understand what it\'s capabel of.

Originally posted by ddaryl
The RSX still has over 125 transitors on its chip that is not memory or memory controller. Those extra transistors represent graphical horsepower that will handle the high def and FSAA or whatever developers want the graphics horsepower of the RSX to do.

I think the Edram on the ATI GPU makes FSAA easy, but I still think NVidia\'s chip is more impressive at this junction. We\'ll have to wait for the final specs of the RSX to really understand what it\'s capabel of.

Transistors are only part of the battle

Have you read the offical article in this thread?

On chip, the shaders are organized in three SIMD engines with 16 processors per unit, for a total of 48 shaders. Each of these shaders is comprised of four ALUs that can execute a single operation per cycle, so that each shader unit can execute four floating-point ops per cycle

The xbox actually has dobule the TFLOP performance.
the gpu has 48 unified Pipelines, 4 Full ALUs per pipeline =   192 alu\'s
the EDRAM has an additional 192 processors of it\'s own

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.

Guys you need to head over to my fav forum, http://www.beyond3d.com

GO to console section, very informative.

the EDRAM is basically a second "simple" GPU.  That does a lot of bandwidth intensive tasks on it\'s own dedicated bus.  Everyone is unsure whether doubling the TFLOP number is the best way to guage the power of this additional "back buffer".  If anything it\'s only going to modify the existing geometry that it recieves from the main GPU (most notably AA).  Nobody really knows how much of a boon this will be to Xenos, it\'s definately an ingenious idea.

PS3 went a different route where the RSX gets it\'s own dedicated bus to it\'s own pool of 256MB of VRAM, that it dosen\'t have to share with the CPU... with the flexibility to share the really fast 256MBs of XDR mainly used for Cell.  Xbox360 that has to pump CPU & GPU data through the same bus, but that penalty gets negated somewhat with the EDRAM logic acting as a second GPU.

Nobody knows which platform will crank out more performance... until we see some benchmarks and can compare some multiplatform games.  I doubt we are gonna see much difference between the two anyway.

Originally posted by NVIDIA256
Guys you need to head over to my fav forum, http://www.beyond3d.com

GO to console section, very informative.

What I gathered off beyond 3d forums.

ps3>god
xbox360>ps3
ps5>xbox360
ps9>me
xbox360=answer to all my console dreams

naw seriously though both these consoles are powerful. Lets just enjoy them.

Quddus\'s problem is that he is using numbers he doesn\'t quite understand to "prove" that his prefered system is better than the other one......

Heheh whan I saw the XBOX360>PS3 part I rushed to http://www.beyond3d.com to see if anything new was reported since last time I checked I saw nothing that hinted to which one is better.

Well I still see nothing.No conclusions yet

Originally posted by seven
Quddus\'s problem is that he is using numbers he doesn\'t quite understand to "prove" that his prefered system is better than the other one......

uhhh meh... don\'t label me for you don\'t even know me. Don\'t try and discredit me because you have no clue wtf you\'re talking about:rolleyes:

And I never said one system was better than the other. Where are you pulling this from? Oh yeah....out of your ass.

.

correction.
More powerful

Originally posted by Unicron!
correction.
More powerful

Show me anywhere I said any console was more powerful than the other.

I dare you!!!!!!!!!!!