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Author Topic: London hit by terrorist attack?  (Read 5570 times)

Offline GigaShadow
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2005, 07:18:08 AM »
Lastly - I should have said this before, but certain dingbats distracted me.  I hope all of our members over in the UK are safe and our thoughts are with you.  This also reminds me of another one of Winston Churchill\'s speeches in 1938:

"Do not suppose that this is the end. This is only the beginning of the reckoning. This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of a bitter cup which will be proffered to us year by year unless by a supreme recovery of moral health and martial vigour, we arise again and take our stand for freedom as in the olden time."
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline Samwise
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2005, 01:12:17 PM »
Scary... I feel it getting closer. First Madrid, now London. I wonder when we\'ll get hit.
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Offline Living-In-Clip

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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2005, 08:33:58 PM »
Oh cry me a river that Muslim is a religion of "war". For christ sake (pun intended) all religions are. What starts wars? Religion.

Quote

What is your plan? Withdraw our troops, hand over the Middle East to Islamic fundamentalism? Give them the message that we are weak and can\'t stand up to terrorists Ghetto? Wouldn\'t that encourage them to make further terror attacks to get what they wanted? This is war for the 100th time - get it through your thick head. They succeeded in Spain and now they are trying the same in the UK. If Spain wouldn\'t have backed down this might not have happened as it would have shown them that terrorism will not intimidate a government or its people.

In reality, Bush\'s plan has worked for the US has it not? I suppose you are now blaming Bush for what has happened in London? I didn\'t know the UK fell under the Department of Homeland Security\'s jurisdiction.

Why not? Let them have a small third world country. Whoopie doo. Then again, I say why bother worrying about a dictator over there? If he wants to torture his people, big deal.

I say, withdraw troops, let them car bomb each other to death and move on. This war is pointless. There will always be terrorist, Muslim or not.

And you are in no position to call anyone a dingbat, if you disagree, that\'s fine. Voice your opinion, but act like an adult. Don\'t start throwing insults, like a three year old child. It\'s not only in poor taste, but it makes your argument look weak.

Oh and to quote the forum guidelines........

Quote
Keep things civil in here. Blatant insults directed at others for any reason won\'t be tolerated.

This applies to everyone, most importantly you, as a moderator. I can understand jabs and insults to other members in other sections of the forum, but when talking about something as serious as politics, then these insults not only distract, but make it all seem childish and trivial.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2005, 08:39:03 PM by Living-In-Clip »

Offline THX
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2005, 09:15:20 PM »
I\'m betting 99% of all muslims in England are peace-keeping non-extremist citizens.  Wouldn\'t make sense to deport them all.

Giga I suggest you get a mid-eastern friend and see how cool they can be.  Then you can smell like curry like the rest of us.

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Offline clowd
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2005, 01:48:48 AM »
I have some family in Europe,  and some of them happened to be in London at the time of the explosions

They called on their cellphone early yesterday mourning saying they just heard a loud explosion and told us to check the news to see what was happening. We tried to call them back but couldnt get through,  too much cell phone traffic.

Well,  when I got off of work I was informed that they called back.  They had been on the subway 15 minutes before the explosion.  Whether it was on the same train that got hit I dont know.  I didnt get alot of details just know they had to walk 5 miles back to the hotel because all of the transportation was shut down.  God is with them
« Last Edit: July 08, 2005, 01:50:52 AM by clowd »

Offline GigaShadow
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2005, 04:31:04 AM »
To LIC since you can\'t seem to understand the ramifications of leaving Iraq:

The great British mathematician Alfred North Whitehead once wrote, "It requires a very unusual mind to undertake the analysis of the obvious." Some Chinese believe that Osama bin Laden has such a mind. Although bin Laden and his minions are plotting the current terror war against the United States, the Chinese – in their quest to create a multipolar world – may have written the book on terrorism…literally.

From the collapse of the Soviet Union and the U.S. victory in the first Gulf War, political leaders and military strategists drew two obvious conclusions. The United States could not be defeated militarily, and any nation that sought to achieve military parity with the U.S. would, like the former Soviet Union, bankrupt itself in the attempt.

To the leaders of China, France, Germany and Russia, a unipolar world with the United States as the world’s only superpower is an unappealing long-term prospect. Jacques Chirac who believes that France’s mission is to shape "the destiny of the world" has been the most vocal proponent of "a world where political, economic and cultural influence" is shared. He envisions a united Europe led by France and Germany (with Germany the junior partner) as one of the centers of power in a multipolar world. Vladimir Putin and Hu Jintao also see multipolarity as the means to eliminating U.S. dominance. However, becoming a "pole" that rivals the United States is easier said than done.

The French and German economies are hobbled by excessive regulation, and in the case of Germany the burden of reintegration with the former East Germany. The Russian economy suffers from governmental interference, bureaucratic bungling and official corruption leftover from the U.S.SR. Only China is growing economically at a faster pace than the United States. But even with its burgeoning economy, overtaking the U.S. is a very long-term proposition.

China has an added incentive for wanting to see U.S. power weakened, the possibility that a declaration of independence by Taiwan could lead to armed conflict. Jiang Zemin, in July 1999, said that he realized that at some point China would have to fight the American wolf, but for now the wolf was too strong, and so the right course for China was to continue to court American business and investment and increase exports to the U.S. China needed to "dance with the wolf" in order to build a strong economy.

In recent years a number of articles and books have been written by Chinese military analysts wrestling with the problem of how to win a war against a seemingly invincible United States. Only one of these has received attention by the mainstream American press. Chaoxian Zhan (Unrestricted War) proposed a total war approach to defeating the U.S. that was praised by China’s highest ranking officers. In their war fighting methodology, the authors (Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui) included the possible use of biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. Western journalists, unable to read Chinese, drew their news reports from an English summary of the book that focused on the weapons of mass destruction and missed the most important point. Osama bin Laden had analyzed the obvious and concluded that while the United States could not be defeated by a foreign power, Americans could be induced to defeat themselves.

In Unrestricted War, Osama bin Laden is the prototype for the "new terrorist." He has acquired capital, technical expertise and access to weapons by taking advantage of the "loopholes in the free economies of the West." (Bin Laden has boasted that his followers understand Western financial systems as well as they know the backs of their hands.) The ease with which his organization has been able to raise funds coupled with his skillful use of religious organizations and the media to gain recruits to his cause has guaranteed a ready supply of men and weaponry to carry out his attacks.

According to Qiao and Wang, the new terrorists are not restrained by "international law, behavioral norms and ethical principles…Because they operate secretly, are well concealed, and cause widespread damage, their attacks …seem uncommonly cruel. All of which when it is broadcast in real time by the round the clock coverage of the modern media further strengthens the effects of their terrorist acts." Defeating the new terrorists is difficult because a nation "which follows certain rules and will only use limited force to achieve limited goals" is at a distinct disadvantage against organizations "which do not observe any rules and are unafraid to fight an unlimited war using unlimited means." Terrorist groups rely on the fact that even though they are fighting a technologically and numerically superior enemy, the nature of their attacks provides insufficient justification for the enemy to make full use of its superiority. The new terrorists are like rats with very sharp teeth and excellent survival skills. Like rats, they strike quickly and then duck back into their holes. However, whereas rat-infested habitats can be destroyed, terrorists conceal themselves among civilian populations and any massive military retaliation is certain to result in the loss of innocent lives. When you kill innocent civilians you are condemned by the media, human rights groups and the nations most closely allied to you.


Prior to 9/11 the U.S. response to each terrorist attack had been predictable. When the Khobar Towers were bombed in 1996, President Clinton said, "The cowards who committed this murderous act must not go unpunished." He responded to the attacks on our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, by calling terrorist acts "abhorrent and inhuman" and promising to "use all means at our disposal to bring those responsible to justice." After the U.S.S Cole was attacked in 2000, he warned the terrorists, "You will not find a safe harbor. We will find you, and justice will prevail."


Only after the embassy bombings did he authorize military action, a missile strike against terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and a suspected chemical weapons plant in Sudan. The argument has been made that surgical strikes that limit collateral damage are less likely to result in a negative reaction by the American people. Lieutenant General Paul Van Riper, U.S.MC, and Major General Robert Scales, U.S.A, believe that one of the lessons of the first Gulf War is that when our nation’s leaders think that the American people are unprepared to deal with the carnage of war, "psychological revulsion" becomes a powerful weapon in the enemy’s arsenal especially when that weapon is unwittingly wielded by our own media.

By the time bin Laden laid the plans for his 9/11 surprise, he could feel fairly certain of two things: The U.S. would continue to view terrorists as criminals rather than as enemy combatants engaged in a war against the United States, and even when military power was brought to bear by launching missiles at suspected terrorist hideouts, the mission would be undertaken in the name of law enforcement, not as an act of war.

The Bush administration’s invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq in response to 9/11 caught bin Laden by surprise, and invalidated his hypothesis about the willingness of the U.S. to use military power to destroy terrorist bases and training camps, and to change the regimes of nations that harbored and supported terrorist organizations. However, bin Laden has reason to believe that our military response will be undermined from the inside.

\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline GigaShadow
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2005, 04:31:29 AM »
Part II:

Many of the people educating America’s children today came of age during the protests against the Vietnam War, and by and large believe that all war is wrong. The Association for Childhood Education International (ACEI), established in 1892, is the oldest professional association of its type in the United States. Its executive director considers the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq "profoundly sad and most unfortunate." ACEI takes the position that "a vital way to prevent war and bring about peace is to raise a generation of children who reject killing as uncivilized and as a barbaric, unproductive way to deal with human conflicts." While ACEI’s bold statement stands in sharp contrast to that of the other associations of American educators, which implicitly sanction antiwar teachings under the mantle of academic freedom of expression, the most widely held view is that "peace education" is the "natural role" for America’s teachers at every level from pre-kindergarten through graduate school.

And peace education seems to be working. The Army and the Marine Corps are failing to meet their recruiting goals. The head of the Army Recruiting Command, referring to enlistment projections as "not a bright picture," calls it "the toughest recruiting climate ever faced by the all-volunteer army." The Army is so desperate to sign up new recruits that it has begun offering 15-month active-duty enlistments. However, such a short enlistment will almost certainly mean reduced training time and lowered unit cohesiveness, which will inevitably result in greater numbers of U.S. casualties.

During the Korean War, Joseph Stalin told Zhou Enlai that the United States had "lost the capability to wage a large-scale war." Mao Zedong also believed that Americans "cannot stand wars." In his declaration of war against the United States, bin Laden cited Reagan’s withdrawal of the Marines from Beirut in 1983 after 241 were killed in a suicide bombing, and Clinton’s withdrawal from Somalia "when tens of your soldiers were killed in minor battles and one American pilot was dragged through the streets of Mogadishu" as examples of American "impotence and weakness." Qiao and Wang believe that "CNN’s broadcast of an American soldier’s exposed corpse on the streets of Mogadishu" was all that was needed to "shake American determination."

The Koran teaches that "Allah is with those who patiently persevere." Osama bin Laden believes that if he can just keep killing Americans, the nightly news images of dead and wounded, the rising casualty count and the faces of young soldiers killed in action will take their toll on the American people. The 2004 election was so close that he has every reason to hope that next time the U.S. will elect a president who will end large-scale military operations and return to the practice followed by the Clinton administration of responding to terrorist acts by trying to bring the individuals responsible to justice. When that happens, Osama bin Laden is convinced that we will be forced to withdraw from the Middle East as Clinton did from Somalia, "carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat, and your dead with you."

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=18091
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
[/i]
[/size]One Big Ass Mistake America

Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline Ghettomath
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2005, 11:30:48 AM »
Giga before you post another long article, I think LIC was talking about Iraq, not Afghanistan.

Which ties in with my point that these attacks in London might not have happened if our focus had been on Afghanistan and not on Iraq since September 11th.

Giga, you said that the America is more safe now than it was since September 11th happened, but aren\'t you forgetting that this war has been dubbed (by dubyew) as the "Global War on Terror?" To say that America is safer, and that the war on terror has suceeded would be selfish in regards to all other nations. Europe, clearly is not safer than it once was before 9/11.
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Offline Ghettomath
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2005, 11:32:27 AM »
P.S. http://www.frontpagemag.com is an openly conservative publication.
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Offline JBean
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2005, 11:50:36 AM »
it\'s extremly right-wing... but nearly every article that backs up Giga is

kinds tells you something about him dosen\'t it

Offline Living-In-Clip

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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2005, 04:23:53 PM »
Give him credit, he mastered the art of copying & pasting.

;)

Offline Halberto
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2005, 09:16:12 AM »
Do you really think deporting will help? If anything it would probably multiply the number of terrorists.

Offline Cerberus

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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2005, 10:05:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Halberto
Do you really think deporting will help?



Not really. I think in this sort of situation, prevention is much better than the cure. We have to try to stop them getting in in the first place.

The ones that have a right to be here, deserve their place, the ones that sneak in as part of mass groups of refugees in the back of trucks without any identification should be kicked back out, and the only way that will happen, is if the authorities responsible for processing all incoming traffic, clamp down on it.
Don't waste your words I don't need anything from you. I don't care where you've  been or what you plan to do. I am the resurrection and I am the light. I  couldn't ever bring myself to hate you as I'd like.

Offline Living-In-Clip

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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2005, 01:16:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cerberus
Not really. I think in this sort of situation, prevention is much better than the cure. We have to try to stop them getting in in the first place.

The ones that have a right to be here, deserve their place, the ones that sneak in as part of mass groups of refugees in the back of trucks without any identification should be kicked back out, and the only way that will happen, is if the authorities responsible for processing all incoming traffic, clamp down on it.


That\'s almost every single Mexican in America.......

Offline THX
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London hit by terrorist attack?
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2005, 01:46:34 PM »
I keep hearing on the news here that the UK is much more liberal about letting fanatic Islam churches exist on their shores.  They let them preach certain messages about violence \'n such.

Any truth to that?

\"i thought america alreay had been in the usa??? i know it was in australia and stuff.\"
-koppy *MEMBER KOPKING FANCLUB*
\"I thought japaneses where less idiot than americans....\" -Adan
\"When we can press a button to transport our poops from our colon to the toilet, I\'ll be impressed.\" -Gman

 

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