London hit by terrorist attack?

Originally posted by cloud345
These extremists already despise our western culture so how would kicking everyone of theyre religion make them think "Hmmmm....maybe these guys arent so bad after all."

So letting them run around freely in our society will make them change their mind?  Their goal is our destruction and nothing will persuade them otherwise.

Not to say I told you so, but here is more on what "mainstream" Muslims think about these terrorists:

Friends: Iraq War Spurred Bombers
Friday, July 15, 2005
 
LEEDS, England — Shahzad Tanweer (search), the 22-year-old son of a Pakistani-born affluent businessman, turned to Islam, the religion of his birth, a few years ago.

The transformation was gradual, but then his relentless reading of the Koran and daily prayers became almost an obsession, his friends told The Associated Press. He became withdrawn and increasingly angry over the war in Iraq, according to those who knew him best.

The U.S.-led war was what likely drove him to blow himself up on a subway train last week, said his friends.

"He was a Muslim and he had to fight for Islam. This is called jihad," or holy war, said Asif Iqbal, 20, who said he was Tanweer\'s childhood friend.

Another friend, Adnan Samir, 21, nodded in agreement.

"They\'re crying over 50 people while 100 people are dying every day in Iraq and Palestine," said Iqbal. "If they are indeed the ones who did it, it\'s because they believed it was right. They\'re in Heaven.

"Have you ever been inspired in life?" he asked.



"He always told me to read the Koran and said Islam is the way [of life]," recalls Iqbal.

Everyone interviewed in his neighborhood — those who knew him well like Iqbal and Samir, who were schoolmates, or those who saw him in passing — described Tanweer as pleasant and kind.

"He was a nice lad. I don\'t know how many times he served me fish and chips," said Peter Douchworth, 58, a Beeston resident for over 30 years. "He went out of his way to help."



His uncle, Bashir Ahmed, said Tanweer traveled to Lahore, Pakistan, this year to study Islamic religion. He said his family believed he was attending "some religious function" on the day of the bombings.

Forensic evidence has linked Tanweer to the blast on the Underground train near Aldgate.

Friends Iqbal and Samir claimed ignorance as to how their friend became involved in Islamic militancy and how he became a prey to terrorist recruiters.

"All Muslims are connected," Iqbal said.

The friends said they had never been approached by anyone trying to indoctrinate them into militant Islam.

Where would Tanweer and his co-activists meet or plan their attacks?

"How do football fans get together and talk about football? It\'s the same thing," said Iqbal.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162603,00.html

Inspired????  In Heaven?????    These guys think what their friend did was right and justified!!!

I\'m just saying that deportation will only strengthen their will and make the situation worse.

As of now, the only thing we can do about it is weed out the people who we think are terrorists and stop attacks from happening using intelligence. Sure there will be terrorist attacks but as long as people are willing to give their lives for their cause there will be terrorist attacks, there is no way around it.



These  people are misguided and mistake the teachings of their religion as reasons to wage jihads on other people.

Remember the crusades??? Same thing.

Originally posted by cloud345

These  people are misguided and mistake the teachings of their religion as reasons to wage jihads on other people.

Remember the crusades??? Same thing.

No, I don\'t remember the Crusades as they happened 800 years ago and that was when Europe was just emerging from the Dark Ages.  Europe was barbaric at that time as was most of the world.  However, this does not justify what these people are doing in the name of Islam along with those who practice Islam and turn a blind eye or encourage it in the 21st Century.

Since when does the good of a few outway the good of the many?  We agree it is impossible to weed out these terrorist because they look and act outwardly just like everyone else.  Deport Muslims back to their countries and the US is safer, but that alone will not be enough.  Close our borders and crack down on all illegal immigrantion.

Since when do the crimes of a minority earn punishment for the majority? Legal immigration is already next to impossible for Arabs. Nothing you have said, however, justifies the absolute deportation of all Muslims.  

With the exception of the Abortion nuts, none of people you listed resembles Islamic fundamentalists for one very important reason:  They have not inspired people to kill innocent people.  You can not argue that Christianity is equal or more of a threat than Islamic Fundamentalism and it is absurd that you try and draw parallels.

You have missed my point - Christianity can inspire the same sort of twisted fundamentalism that Islam can. Americans donate millions each week to TV evangelicals who expound bigotry. Even the people I quoted, whom you said were isolated, enjoyed audiences in the thousands. The fact is many Christians spew unreasonably negative rhetoric on a range of issues and against other religions – not just Islam, but Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism – that unfortunately influences a large number of Americans. We can’t take away their right to religion and free speech because of this now, can we?

Because Christian extremists and fundamentalists do not seemingly inspire people to commit heinous acts, they are allowed to voice their messages of hate while their Muslim counterparts cannot? We agreed that it is impossible to weed out the potential terrorist from the average population. We cannot predict how they will rise nor when they will strike. The safest way out for American society would be to ban Christianity to prevent future Eric Rudolphs, Christian Identities, Lord’s Resistance Armies, and lunatics who might murder Schiavo’s husband and to ban Islam to prevent future September 11s. Yeah. Ridiculous.                

However, you are correct that this war on Islamic Fundamentalism will last a very long time and that is what most don\'t understand.  The way this needs to be done is with the help of moderate Islam, but they aren\'t getting the message.  Wake them up by first cutting off all methods of legal entry for them into this country and if that doesn\'t work start deporting them.  If they want to live in Western Society and reap its benefits then they should be responsible for those in their community.

In this, we share common ground. The Muslim community is acting, but must act faster and louder.

So what you are saying is "buy them off" so they will "behave".  Appeasement doesn\'t work.  The goal of these people is not material, it is the eradication of Western Society.

No, Giga. Clearly the goal of moderate Muslims in Europe is not the eradication of Western society. Neither is it the wish of the majority of Muslims leaving in peace in America, whom you so vehemently want to deport. How did most White Americans learn to accept that racial discrimination is wrong? Through landmark court rulings, but also largely through education and monetary assistance to areas most heavily hit by racism. The same can be done for Muslim communities, which are characterized by poverty and ignorance of true Western culture. It will be a slow and laborious process, but it is a long term solution, much more effective than forced deportation that would further anger extremists.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Not to say I told you so, but here is more on what "mainstream" Muslims think about these terrorists:



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162603,00.html

Inspired????  In Heaven?????    These guys think what their friend did was right and justified!!!

Giga, you shouldn\'t let the comments of three people form your perception of the mainstream.

Here are what other people had to say:

British Muslim leaders refuse martyr label for suicide bombers

Fri Jul 15, 4:38 PM ET

LONDON (AFP) - About 20 senior Muslim theological leaders in Britain condemned the bombings in London last week and said those who carried them out could not be considered martyrs.

"We regard these acts as utterly criminal, totally reprehensible, and absolutely un-Islamic," they said in a statement read by the imam of the central mosque of the English Midlands city of Leicester, Mohammad Shahid Reza, on their behalf.

The leaders had met in central London at the mosque in Regent\'s Park, not far from the scene of three of the explosions, at the initiative of the Muslim Council of Britain, the chief federation of Muslim organisations.

According to its secretary general Iqbal Sacranie 80 to 90 percent of British mosques and Islamic institutions belong to it.

"We are firmly of the view that these killings have absolutely no sanction in Islam, nor is there any justification whatsoever in our noble religion for such evil actions. It is our understanding that those who carried out the bombings in London should in no sense be regarded as martyrs."

The leaders said that the events of last week demanded "that all of us, both in public life and in civil and religious society, confront together the problems of Islamophobia, racism, unemployment, economic deprivation and social exclusion - factors that may be alienating some of our children and driving them towards the path of anger and desperation.

"Islam prohibits both anger and desperation. Anger and desperation are haram (forbidden) and may lead to some people being targeted by people with a sinister and violent agenda."

"Today is a historic day for the British Muslims," Sacranie said.

Muslim leaders have condemnmed the attacks, in which at least one Muslim died, but there is a growing chorus calling on the Muslim community to eliminate the extremism within it.

"It is incumbent upon all of us, Muslims and non-Muslims to help the authorities with any information that may lead to the planners of last week\'s atrocity being brought to justice," the statement said.

"The pursuit of justice for the victims of last week\'s attacks is an obligation under the faith of Islam."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050715/wl_uk_afp/britainattacksislam_050715203835;_ylt=Agc28pDD86npOoOR777qTyi9Q5gv;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Bomber\'s Family Urges Cooperation in Probe

By MATT MOORE, Associated Press Writer Fri Jul 15, 3:29 PM ET

LONDON - Family members of Hasib Hussain, the 18-year-old identified as one of the four suicide bombers involved in last week\'s attacks in London, said they were devastated by the attack and had no idea such "a loving and normal young man" could have been involved.
ADVERTISEMENT

"We had no knowledge of his activities and if we had, we would have done everything in our power to stop him," his family said in the statement. "We urge anyone with information about these events, or leading up to them, to cooperate fully with the authorities."

His family said their thoughts were with those who lost loved ones in the July 7 attacks that killed at least 54 people, the first suicide bombings in Britain. Police believe Hussain blew himself up on a double-decker bus, killing 14 people. The other attacks targeted three subway trains.

"We, the family of Hasib Mir Hussain, are devastated over the events of the past few days. Hasib was a loving and normal young man who gave us no concern and we are having difficulty taking this in," the family said in the statement.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050715/ap_on_re_eu/britain_bomber_s_family_1

[Living-In-Clip]

LIC, if you don\'t like what I post - ignore it. The last time I checked you weren\'t a mod here and if you continue with your attacks on me I will delete your posts as they are just whining from a person who still can\'t get over the fact that I am a mod.  Where are you when Ghettomath and Mystiq spout their insults???? Silent as usual. Consider this your last warning on the matter. You claim to want to clean up the insults, but you blindly ignore the most visible violaters including your whiny self.

I could care less if you are a moderator. You can warn me and you can also delete, as far as I care. You dictate this part of the forum like you are Jesus himself, you don\'t let anyone get two words in without bashing them. Was you a poor choice for a moderator? Yes. I think you need to look at other people who have moderated this forum for some idea as to what your duty is, a suggestion would be to follow in the steps of Ace. He has beliefs, he states them, but he doesn\'t trample over other members, simply because he can.

I fully expect this to be deleted, so be it. At least I said it. Got a problem with it? Post it in the Staff forum. Otherwise, STFU and move on with the debate in a decent manner, for christ sake. Oh and one more thing, if you are goin\' to accuse me of something, make sure you have facts to back it up. When Mystiq was here spouting off, (your exact counter part may I add), I was here telling him to STFU also..

With that said - you want a viable solution? There isn\'t one single one. You keep saying deportation, like that will fix things in no time. It won\'t. Yes, it may cut down on it, but it is not the be all / end all solution. As a human race, we must accept that we are now in an age where terrorism is going to happen and with technology, it will be easier than ever. Deporting only opens up another can of worms. What if you deport a legal American who happens to be a muslim? Law suit. We can\'t deport people until they commit a crime, it just isn\'t viable . And even if you do get all the Arabic\'s / Muslims / Radicals , that are noticable, there will always be sleepers. Do you not think they have ways to communicate? Ways to get sleepers in? Don\'t you think there are plenty of WHITE MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN\'s who could be sleepers?

Not to mention, guess what? In America, we are allowed two things...

Freedom of Speech.

Freedom of Religion.

That means, unless they make an actual terrorist threat, we have no right to arrest them. Or unless we have proof they are planning something. We can\'t just arrest them for their viewpoints.

[SirMystiq]

You know what I find very interesting.

It\'s not that Giga was the one to come up with the most delusional and prejudiced idea for a long time.

It\'s the fact that his "idea" will NEVER HAPPEN. It\'s fun to just bitch at each other but let\'s face it, your fighting against each other and that is where it dies. Nobody outside this forums would probably have enough credibility to even put the idea of deporting people according to religion in anybody\'s head.

Man I love this country.

[clips]

heh it\'s interesting to see two mods go at it....i thought they were under some sort of secret code as to never have any conflicts with one another....at least not in the forum area\'s with that said, make me the new mod of c.e. shocky and core have not been doing a good job of checkin\' giga, and i\'ll set that a$$ straight!  

[GmanJoe]

I want to be the Big Boss of the Off Topic forum.

No, I don\'t remember the Crusades as they happened 800 years ago and that was when Europe was just emerging from the Dark Ages. Europe was barbaric at that time as was most of the world. However, this does not justify what these people are doing in the name of Islam along with those who practice Islam and turn a blind eye or encourage it in the 21st Century.

No you seem to miss the point....you\'re saying that Islam is the only religion who has lost it\'s way at a time. It doesnt matter when it happened, but the crusades where started because christians believed they had the right to the land. They than started a war and believed they were right in doing so. Just like the Muslims who are now currently on this Jihad or whatever you want to call it.

The point you are missing is that this is the 21st century.  You can claim their religion hasn\'t evolved all you want, but the fact is the human race has evolved in the past 800 years.  The fundamentalists are still living in the 13th century.  People shouldn\'t act this way no matter what God you worship or what problem you have with another country.

Yeah sort of like how you rule over Console Discussion?  OK kettle.  As for taking an example of who to follow in here?  Ace is fine, but he is hardly ever here.  Who corrects out of place topics?  Who tries to keep discussions on topic?  Who else comes here regularly and checks on things?  

You claim I insult people... no harm in sprinkling a few insults in with facts is there?  You do it do you not?  As of now this ends here.  As you said if you have a problem take it to the SF.  

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip

With that said - you want a viable solution? There isn\'t one single one. You keep saying deportation, like that will fix things in no time. It won\'t. Yes, it may cut down on it, but it is not the be all / end all solution. As a human race, we must accept that we are now in an age where terrorism is going to happen and with technology, it will be easier than ever. Deporting only opens up another can of worms. What if you deport a legal American who happens to be a muslim? Law suit.

[/b]

Yeah lawsuits.  If they were deported who would sue?  What court would they sue in?  They would stripped of their citizenship which means they would have no recourse.

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
We can\'t deport people until they commit a crime, it just isn\'t viable . And even if you do get all the Arabic\'s / Muslims / Radicals , that are noticable, there will always be sleepers. Do you not think they have ways to communicate? Ways to get sleepers in? Don\'t you think there are plenty of WHITE MIDDLE CLASS AMERICAN\'s who could be sleepers?

[/b]

When some white middle class Islamic sleeper cell carries out an attack I will be the first to say I was wrong.  I also doubt there is such an animal, but you never know.  

Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Not to mention, guess what? In America, we are allowed two things...

Freedom of Speech.

Freedom of Religion.

That means, unless they make an actual terrorist threat, we have no right to arrest them. Or unless we have proof they are planning something. We can\'t just arrest them for their viewpoints.

Freedom of Speech does not mean preaching for the killing of all that don\'t believe in your religion.  

Freedom of Religion does not mean you can use that religion to carry out attacks just because your warped version says you can.

We don\'t need them to make a threat as they are a threat.  This was proven in London.  Preaching for the destruction of our government is sedition - which is a crime.  For that they could and should be arrested.  

Just wait for some really horrific attack to happen.  That is all it will take for most in this country to agree with it.  

As for Mystiq\'s comment that no one thinks as I do... he couldn\'t be more wrong.

You dont think there are still christians in the world today that kill in the name of god? You just don\'t see it on the news.

I still don\'t think you relise how uneffective complete deportation of Muslims would be. It would not solve anything, it would most likely increase violence and hate against America. Please try and understand this.

Muslim extremist terrorist=Western culture haters.

M.E.T+Getting religion kicked out of America= W. culture hatersx10.

[Living-In-Clip]

[Quote

Yeah sort of like how you rule over Console Discussion? OK kettle. As for taking an example of who to follow in here? Ace is fine, but he is hardly ever here. Who corrects out of place topics? Who tries to keep discussions on topic? Who else comes here regularly and checks on things?

You claim I insult people... no harm in sprinkling a few insults in with facts is there? You do it do you not? As of now this ends here. As you said if you have a problem take it to the SF. [/Quote]

Gaming is not important. I insult there. Others insult there. It\'s no big deal. This stuff is important.

When some white middle class Islamic sleeper cell carries out an attack I will be the first to say I was wrong. I also doubt there is such an animal, but you never know.

You\'re a blind racist, if you believe that.