Ahaha... what a moron.

NO WAR = FREEDOM

ignorance is truly bliss

No true. Besides, what does that have to do with the topic ? Zero. (if the Africans would have come to America themselves, by free will, would that have ensured a race issue-less USA - i don\'t believe that. Instead, \'thank\' the 3K\'s for that)

C\'mon ! No need for ff-ing mudslinging.

My point was that Holland is not at war and indeed it\'s been a good trader of good goods for centuries.

Ranting stuff like that, explicitly blaming things outside the USA for problems in the USA, puts the USA itself towards the isolated status it\'s heading.

Don\'t let that become a vicious circle.

Originally posted by mm
ignorance is truly bliss

By \'WAR\' i mean, a situation where things have to be established by means of force, military force.

If that is not the case, then you have a good basis for freedom. Freedom is indeed something that should not be taken for granted and it\'s interpretable in many ways.

That\'s why our Dutch freedom is built upon a Dutch democracy, Dutch society and a strong voice within building the European Union.

Show me this supposedly immediate threat of \'outside\' evil force which supposedly endangers this freedom ?

[GmanJoe]

I know of not too many freedoms that were not fought for. Europe has just been one big battle ground for the past 2500 years - minimum (tribes there didn\'t have much of historical records until the Romans wrote about them).

About the only "nation" that went without wars was the island of Hawaii. So isolated, they lived in peace for almost 800 years until another Tahitian tribe found it.

Ok, so much for history class.

Most/alot of countries now have an established democracy from which \'freedom\' (of speech, religion, etc) is the achievement.

This proud achievement is in no way helped by military means. Tax money and the efforts of young ppl shouldn\'t go to the military.

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by Knotter8
Ok, so much for history class.

Most/alot of countries now have an established democracy from which \'freedom\' (of speech, religion, etc) is the achievement.

This proud achievement is in no way helped by military means. Tax money and the efforts of young ppl shouldn\'t go to the military.

Persecution caused many people to leave Europe so they could worship they way they wanted to. The Mayflower is an excellent example. Also, the Menonites and Amish (I think from your country) left Europe and established in America. It may not have been war....that led to freedom of speech, but there was some things just as bad.

Are the Amish > Dutch society or vice versa ?  I don\'t think so.

So, i am still of opinion that America would do better at strengthening it\'s society and freedoms by other means than military recruitment, to fight some kind of \'war\'.

Afterall, recruitment is the main topic of this thread, right ?

[GmanJoe]

The theme has changed to "cost of freedom".

See, that\'s the fallicious reasoning, right there.

It\'s not about \'cost\'. That\'s thinking in negative terms.

Freedom is a collaborative effort ; in all ways except for military use of force.

If a country takes the defensive, military way of doing things ; yeah, that only \'cost\'s both the nation and families who form that nation, not forgetting the families who get duped, outside of that nation. Think about the cost of lives and tax money such a military forces absorbes. That is so wastefull imo.

The military as a workforce, that in itself is legit ; and then I\'m talking purely about the ppl who really make the individual decision to become a career military.  

However, pro active military recruitment is imho taking things way too far.

[GmanJoe]

I see. But....

I often wonder how the world would be if the US was to become an isolationist country again. Israel would be over run. Middle East could possibly gain military advantage over Europe if they were to unite. USSR would still have its satellite states....China would have its way with its neighbors. Particularly Japan, who relies on the US for military defense. There would be only one Korea....a communist one.

That\'s paranoid !

Sorry, but none of those things are gonna happen if the USA is less active by military force in foreign countries.

Worldwide stability is however endangered by deploying military force.

Now, I know the Middle Eastern situation is anything but easy and peacefull, but applying more force onto it is like throwing oil on a fire.

oh, we have an expert on world politics here!

please let us know the perfect solution, thanks

Sorry, mm, but nobody\'s perfect and neither am i.

I\'m just a debater with an opinion. That opinion is that imho it would do the USA better if it shows it\'s youth alternative ways to establish this worlwide freedom, instead of military means.

War 4 teh win!

The world is a much safer place now that we\'ve declared war on terror and alienated most of the Islamic part of the world.

Let\'s all be scared of a faceless enemy. Let\'s all be obidient and do what the people with power want us to do. Let\'s not question their motives and their actions. Let\'s just call it \'the honorable thing to do\'. And anyone who disagrees is a dirty un-american commie.

now your talking!

oh and thank god the \'faceless enemy\', AKA \'the nazi\'s were alienated by the US powers that be, right euro\'s?

good thing we didn\'t just stay safe within our our borders and teach our children to hug a tree and perform random acts of kindness.