Good Gamespy article "Do Hardcore Gamers still matter ?"

I always thought of the hardcore gamer as the guy who researches his games beforehand

Hey thats me. I am so flattered

I always thought of the hardcore gamer as the guy who researches his games beforehand, waits for the reviews, gets all the systems worth getting(sorry but if you own a Neo-Geo that doesn\'t make you hardcore), etc.

Thank you I am so flattered

I always thought of the hardcore gamer as the guy who researches his games beforehand

I am so flattered

But its clear that you have no idea. Games like FIFA and NFS often get good scores in reviews. Is that enough to make you buy them?
(hell DMC2 got a 7 in many reviews. I d give it a 2)

Also having all popular/succesful consoles doesnt make you a hardcore gamer either

[clips]

the hardcore games can be summed up in one word...NERD! :nerd:... j/k..i believe the tru HC gamer is a person who has all of the old and current game systems. when i mean old i mean vector and atari 2600 systems...me personally i can appreciate how far gaming has come,..anybody remember atari 2600 football?.....games are commercialized throughly today, but they are also have alot more depth than any of the older games from yesteryear...we are so used to the technology that\'s out today, but those of us that grew up in the atari and intellivision age can really appreciate what we are getting from game systems today...if you sit back and reflect for a moment,...it really is phenomenal what they are putting out today...of course there will always be garbage games out there, but overall it really is amazing what they are doing with the technology....

[Living-In-Clip]

"3)You imply that hardcore gamers and casual gamerslike MGS2 for the same reasons"




"2)You imply that all self claimed hardcore gamers necessarilly understand Hideo\'s points and story in the MGS series. You are living proof this doesnt happen."




"You imply that new gamers cant be hardcore just because they never got the chance to play old games

You imply that old gamers that never had the chance to try Kojima\'s older games cant be hardcore."







"You imply that all hardcore gamers are well educated people when many of these hardcore gamers\' life is nothing but games games games and they often dont find the same appreciation in some other forms of art. MGS2 "coincidentally" borrows a lot from other forms of art like literature thus a "brainless" hardcore gamer(not all hardcore gamers) wont like many aspects of it because HE actually sucks"



"9)You imply that there are no hardcore gamers that can like MGS2"


Even worse for you, you are the very essence of the mass consumer trying to get the credibility of a hardcore gamer



And most importantly learn to respect others people\'s likings and listen to what th

Huh?
That is the single worst post EVER.

You pull shit out of your ass, I swear. I never said the "hardcore" gamer couldn\'t enjoy MGS2 - but I did say it was a crap game. Get over it.

You know, I expect stupid posts, even idiotic posts from you, but this is reaching an all time low on the dumb scale.

Huh?
That is the single worst post EVER.

You pull shit out of your ass, I swear. I never said the "hardcore" gamer couldn\'t enjoy MGS2 - but I did say it was a crap game. Get over it.

You know, I expect stupid posts, even idiotic posts from you, but this is reaching an all time low on the dumb scale.

Yeah WAS. The UGLIEST. Not the worst

You read mm\'s, and eiksirf\'s comments that were posted when my post was a mess of colors and quotes and decided to copliment them. What a great opportunity to lick some ass and bash me

 Dont tell me I pull shit out of my ass.

Although you posted stupid remarks like you always do
 So hardcore gamers that love and praise Kojima\'s work on the MGS series actually praise a crap game?

 You tend to throw all MGS fans into the same basket with the label "gamers that play MGS because its popular" attcached on it.

 You are the one that should get over it that there are many hardcore gamers praising and enjoying MGS, and appreciating it for the reasons I mentioned earlier(including the plot), the reasons you dont have the ability to understand, the reasons you bash but you tend to think that anyone who appreciates these reasons  are "brainwashed" casual gamers.
 
 Its simple. Its your own personal comprehension, your own personal taste, your own personal understanding doesnt match with the game.

 But you never respect anyone that likes something you dont, or doesnt like something you do, often throwing them all in the basket of the "mass consumer that doesnt know whats good" even if you are the one that is wrong.

[Living-In-Clip]

ecided to copliment them. What a great opportunity to lick some ass and bash me

Huh?
I\'m already a mod - what would I "lick some ass" for?
You\'re a fool who can\'t understand simple logic and who doesn\'t get the hint - everyone makes fun of your idiotic posts around here. Why is that? Because, you\'re an idiot.
Simple enough.
End of discussion.
I\'d close the thread - but it does have some valid points, just none that you posted.

Is the name calling & ego bashing still going on ?

C\'mon, you guys could and should do better than that.

The thread topic is in light of the Gamespy article to discuss
wether hardcore gamers still matter or not.

Firstly, one\'s definition of \'hardcore gamer\' obviously differs
quite a bit amongst everybody here. So, what have we got here ?

- I listed some examples and game examples
- Jumpman finally listed some of his arguments about
what he says what makes a \'hardcore gamer\'
- Clips stated some arguments about that as well,
plus some of his thoughts about the state of gaming in
general
- Unicron listed his arguments about the topic & his arguments of defense for
MGS2 & it\'s fans.
- Evi & Paul just confined their arguments to the mini discussion
about one of my examples ; MGS2 & it\'s fans.
- MM & Eiksirf posted virtually nil

LIC (Eiksirf & MM) ... putting it mildly, you only posted by means of elimination ;
trashing some examples here and there and bashing the fans of these
games. Nothing but bad karma.

So then, why not contribute in a positive manner for a change and state your
games and arguments for them ?
Arguments like : what defined the \'hardcore gamer\' of yesterday....and what defines the hardcore gamer of today and tomorrow ? ; what games did they play, what games do they play now and why would those games qualify as hardcore gamer food ? Also, what do you see as hopefull developments in gaming for the future and which not ?

If you can\'t be bothered to think about this and contribute, then don\'t post or refrain from that childish flaming :fighting:

I\'ll post some more examples of what I think are good developments in gaming in general and why they may contribute to keeping gaming from a slump ;

- single player action adventures are not gonna be extinct ; games like ES:Oblivion, Alan Wake, Condemned, Indigo Prophecy etc are imho prime examples as to why online mmorpg\'s are not gonna whipe them from the planet. Hardcore gaming doesn\'t and shouldn\'t confine itself to online mp gaming. A good thing, devs still understand that. Whatever range of games they produce indirectly defines it\'s audience.

-  physics in games. Yes, I\'m still reluctant like many others to buy a seperate physics accelator pci card. But, I truly applaud the latest & greatest
physics developments in games. Like any tool, it will be used by many ; some will handle it poorly others will create Great achievements with it.

This stands or falls with computational power. There needs to be at least x amount of power & efficiency to make it shine within a game. Personally I think PS3 is gonna be an opporunity for this sake ; some devs will fail, others
might excell. Using physics to expand depth of gameplay is crucial.

Nintendo\'s Rev could establish a same sort of action-reaction interactivity with it\'s human interface. Hopefully, devs will work efficiently enough to make physics and Rev control work hand in hand. Only interface renewal is imho not enough to innovate. A bit too superficial as building blocks of future \'hardcore\' gaming.

So,I think physics might pave the way for games which cater to both main stream and hardcore gamers ; If devs implement physics play in such a way that it\'s depth is \'scalable\'.

Fortunately, E3 is not far off anymore. Then we will know more.

MGS2 is pretty weak as a pure game. As an interactive movie, it gains credibility.

Stealth-cutscene-stealth-cutscene-weak boss battle-longass cutscene-stealth-longass confusing cutscene-20 minute codec cutscene-easy stealth-unintuitive boss battle-cutscene-cutscene-cutscene-stealth-heavy handed cutscene.

[Jumpman]

I am so flattered

But its clear that you have no idea. Games like FIFA and NFS often get good scores in reviews. Is that enough to make you buy them?
(hell DMC2 got a 7 in many reviews. I d give it a 2)

Also having all popular/succesful consoles doesnt make you a hardcore gamer either

Yes, I never said being a hardcore gaming was simply watching the reviews, I also mentioned other characteristics which you conveniently chose to ignore.

Yes, I never said being a hardcore gaming was simply watching the reviews, I also mentioned other characteristics which you conveniently chose to ignore.

Yeah that also contribute to hype before game\'s release.

Huh?
I\'m already a mod - what would I "lick some ass" for?
You\'re a fool who can\'t understand simple logic and who doesn\'t get the hint - everyone makes fun of your idiotic posts around here. Why is that? Because, you\'re an idiot.
Simple enough.
End of discussion.
I\'d close the thread - but it does have some valid points, just none that you posted.

You lick ass to show off and gain some credit from others.

I am the idiot yet you are the one that cant answer a simple question?

Hell you are using the lowest shalowest IQ logic possible yet you are judging me and anyone who doesnt have the same opinion as yours. You are the only one that used "names". Talk about maturity. Not to mention the PMs you ve sent me.

If you were in another forum you wouldnt have been a mod, you d be banned thats for sure.

I asked it before and I ll ask it again

Are there hardcore gamers that love and praise the MGS series for the reasons you cant accept?

You stated earlier MGS is a crap game. What are you trying to suggest? That  just because you personally dont like it its a crap game? That hardcore gamers that praise it are actually praising a crap game? Get a clue and learn to respect others even if they dont agree with you. They are often more intelligent than you.

Is the name calling & ego bashing still going on ?

C\'mon, you guys could and should do better than that.

The thread topic is in light of the Gamespy article to discuss
wether hardcore gamers still matter or not.

Firstly, one\'s definition of \'hardcore gamer\' obviously differs
quite a bit amongst everybody here. So, what have we got here ?

- I listed some examples and game examples
- Jumpman finally listed some of his arguments about
what he says what makes a \'hardcore gamer\'
- Clips stated some arguments about that as well,
plus some of his thoughts about the state of gaming in
general
- Unicron listed his arguments about the topic & his arguments of defense for
MGS2 & it\'s fans.
- Evi & Paul just confined their arguments to the mini discussion
about one of my examples ; MGS2 & it\'s fans.
- MM & Eiksirf posted virtually nil

LIC (Eiksirf & MM) ... putting it mildly, you only posted by means of elimination ;
trashing some examples here and there and bashing the fans of these
games. Nothing but bad karma.

So then, why not contribute in a positive manner for a change and state your
games and arguments for them ?
Arguments like : what defined the \'hardcore gamer\' of yesterday....and what defines the hardcore gamer of today and tomorrow ? ; what games did they play, what games do they play now and why would those games qualify as hardcore gamer food ? Also, what do you see as hopefull developments in gaming for the future and which not ?

If you can\'t be bothered to think about this and contribute, then don\'t post or refrain from that childish flaming :fighting:

I\'ll post some more examples of what I think are good developments in gaming in general and why they may contribute to keeping gaming from a slump ;

- single player action adventures are not gonna be extinct ; games like ES:Oblivion, Alan Wake, Condemned, Indigo Prophecy etc are imho prime examples as to why online mmorpg\'s are not gonna whipe them from the planet. Hardcore gaming doesn\'t and shouldn\'t confine itself to online mp gaming. A good thing, devs still understand that. Whatever range of games they produce indirectly defines it\'s audience.

-  physics in games. Yes, I\'m still reluctant like many others to buy a seperate physics accelator pci card. But, I truly applaud the latest & greatest
physics developments in games. Like any tool, it will be used by many ; some will handle it poorly others will create Great achievements with it.

This stands or falls with computational power. There needs to be at least x amount of power & efficiency to make it shine within a game. Personally I think PS3 is gonna be an opporunity for this sake ; some devs will fail, others
might excell. Using physics to expand depth of gameplay is crucial.

Nintendo\'s Rev could establish a same sort of action-reaction interactivity with it\'s human interface. Hopefully, devs will work efficiently enough to make physics and Rev control work hand in hand. Only interface renewal is imho not enough to innovate. A bit too superficial as building blocks of future \'hardcore\' gaming.

So,I think physics might pave the way for games which cater to both main stream and hardcore gamers ; If devs implement physics play in such a way that it\'s depth is \'scalable\'.

Fortunately, E3 is not far off anymore. Then we will know more.

Best post in this thread. Unlike some others this is probably the only objective post

edit: Something about what you said. It seems that although physics and other elements can be used to enhance gameplay and make gaming more immersing there are a few concerns I ve heard from many developers.

 Although technology offers the chance to developers to add things they couldnt before, they are also limited by other factors. Visual detail often forces the developer to spend too much time and money to things that dont have necessarily to do with gameplay.

For example, they should spend hours on facial expressions, hours on animation to extreme detail (take Tekken for example. When a character graps another character his hands arent actually touching/ holding the other one), on physics etc because the more realistic graphics get the more out of place visual flaws will look.

Fortunately or unfortunately as I said in my first post in this thread few big developers have the time and money to spend for all aspects(graphics and gameplay).to perfect their offerings

Since you name dropped me, I\'ll add that because I think the term "hardcore gamer" is meaningless, I have been unable to add to this conversation at any juncture.
 
Good games are what sell. Or, games that are marketed to be perceived as good games.
 
That and, likely, budget games (also marketed as good games, see: Greatest Hits, Platinum, Player\'s Choice).
 
Marketing and demographics matter. Spending patterns matter.
 
Hardcore or not, you can\'t generalize where the dollar goes. If a hardcore gamer buys Madden, then he matters. If he sits at home playing Atari, he doesn\'t.
 
The dollar matters.
 
Companies who are creative for the sake of preserving the art, are really just being creative for the sake of making money off people who buy into that kind of thing.
 
-Dan

:thumb:  Good post, Eiksirf.

I listed every poster in this thread to make an objective analysis of the overheated discussion as best as i could.

The negative \'waves\' were really non beneficial to the thread so i \'ll
weed them out.

You make a good point ; in many ways i agree, that the term \'hardcore gamer\' or \'hardcore gaming\' is vaporous or non descript.

In fact, the Gamespy interview with the marketing dude maybe hints at what his strategy is ; to use the term \'hardcore gamer\' in whatever way is profitable to him.

Publishers might say to devs ; "ow sorry, we\'re not gonna publish your game becuz it only caters to \'hardcore gamers\', not to our mass sales \'mainstream customers\'.

Of course, when the game hits the store you might even see the word \'hardcore\' on the box of that same game. Ironic eh ?

[Living-In-Clip]

Since you name dropped me, I\'ll add that because I think the term "hardcore gamer" is meaningless, I have been unable to add to this conversation at any juncture.
 
Good games are what sell. Or, games that are marketed to be perceived as good games.
 
That and, likely, budget games (also marketed as good games, see: Greatest Hits, Platinum, Player\'s Choice).
 
Marketing and demographics matter. Spending patterns matter.
 
Hardcore or not, you can\'t generalize where the dollar goes. If a hardcore gamer buys Madden, then he matters. If he sits at home playing Atari, he doesn\'t.
 
The dollar matters.
 
Companies who are creative for the sake of preserving the art, are really just being creative for the sake of making money off people who buy into that kind of thing.
 
-Dan

Brilliant post.

I do have a slight problem with the logic, well not really the logic, but how "hardcore" can be defined.

I would consider someone "hardcore" when they go out of their way to own obsecure games, import games and things like that. That takes them above the "casual" gamer who only buys what is at his local Ebgames.

Since you name dropped me, I\'ll add that because I think the term "hardcore gamer" is meaningless, I have been unable to add to this conversation at any juncture.
 
Good games are what sell. Or, games that are marketed to be perceived as good games.
 
That and, likely, budget games (also marketed as good games, see: Greatest Hits, Platinum, Player\'s Choice).
 
Marketing and demographics matter. Spending patterns matter.
 
Hardcore or not, you can\'t generalize where the dollar goes. If a hardcore gamer buys Madden, then he matters. If he sits at home playing Atari, he doesn\'t.
 
The dollar matters.
 
Companies who are creative for the sake of preserving the art, are really just being creative for the sake of making money off people who buy into that kind of thing.
 
-Dan

Great points. Though I d split the companies in two categories.

One being the ones that truelly want to be creative but are forced not to be or choose to be only when they can profit so they wont get banktrupt

Second being the ones that dont care but sometimes they get creative just because they see potential to profit.

Strange that a certain someone agrees with your points though, since previously he stated a few contradicting opinions :rolleyes: