DVD\'s are fine for this generation

Ofcourse

Well, you asked!
 
;]
 
-Dan

I know

Its just that everyone discusses only the importance of BR in movies, when there is a huge possibility that their storage will be needed for games. There are games like the Getaway for example that I am sure will need that extra storage.

 They have data gathered from London worth of lots and lots of GB.  I remember the developers mentioned a huge number although I cant recall the exact one.

 Since next gen aims for HD quality, Getaway on the PS3 will use the same data as much as possible. London wont be a blurred mess just like PS2\'s in many occasions.

 Also I think games like Gran Turismo might need that space too. I am not expecting more cars than GT4, but I think the same number of cars or even fewer may need much much more space than GT4.

 Final Fantasy as well. Square Enix is always aiming to make huge games with each Final Fantasy. There are more dialoques, the game may have bigger and more detailed worlds, and the CGI parts will have to be shown at High Definition.

 I remember similar discussion 7 years ago. Many claimed that DVD is useless for games, the DVD feature is only a way of marketing, that CD\'s are enough and as such but at the end even games that didnt have almost at all any CGI surpassed the 1GB mark.

Yeah it\'s better but by how much? I work in video and the differences I see between the different standards 720p etc is not that great and sometimes takes a trained eye to see the difference.

Not saying I\'m a videophile (just enthusiast), but I can definitely tell 720p from 1080i/p.

1080i vs. p is noticable when the content is moving, and it really bugs me.  I hope 1080i is the LAST resolution that will ever be interlaced.  It\'s the 21st century and it\'s sad we still have to put up with it.

Trying to get back on topic...the arguement was whether DVD\'s are adequate for this generation of gaming.  Where is the proof that it\'s not?

Toriyama and Versus producer Shinji Hashimoto defended the decision to release FFXIII on the PS3. According to Hashimoto, the development staff determined that one DVD would not be enough for the type of visual expression they were attempting to make. Toriyama noted that, regarding visual expression, the PS3\'s shader abilities are a big factor.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710761p1.html

Just the first of soon to be multiple games that need bluray.  And please don\'t bring up PS1 generation multiple discs :rolleyes:

I also found this at the Beyond3D forums

"The Darkness" developer:

"The 360 is a fantastic machine. I really really like it. The only thing, you know, that is going to cause trouble is the amount of storage space available on a DVD... thats really a problem."

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=446554


Quote:
Team Ninja:

"The infamous Team Ninja front man has a thing or two to say about Microsoft\'s decision to assign standard DVD format to the Xbox 360. Limiting his development team to a measly 9GB does not sit well with Itagaki, especially when Team Ninja is looking to include any number of (MS-coveted) HD cut scenes. It\'s ironic that Microsoft has been the most outspoken about the "HD era", but is the least prepared for HD. However, don\'t be surprised to see an Xbox 360.1 springing up in a year or two, complete with HD-DVD drive."

http://www.joystiq.com/2005/07/05/it...f-on-xbox-360-
limitations/


Quote:
"Enchant Arms" developer:

"The developer of "Enchant Arms," an upcoming role-playing game in Japan, told Gamespot.com last year it was hoping to be able to fit the game on two discs, but admitted "that\'s even looking grim." Any old school gamer can tell you that switching discs while playing is not a fun experience."

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/05/comm...r/column_gamin
g/index.htm


Quote:
Vivendi Universal:

"The technical requirement for game development today demands more advanced optical-disc technologies," said Michael Heilmann, chief technology officer for Vivendi Universal.
"Blu-ray offers the capacity, performance and high-speed internet connectivity to take us into the future of gaming."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4153813.stm


Quote:
EA

"EA, a leading games developer and publisher, added that the delivery of high-definition games of the future was vital and Blu-ray had the capacity, functionality and interactivity needed for the kinds of projects it was planning."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4153813.stm


Quote:
Ninja theory:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arfi-Gorgona-O
Well i want to ask something if i may.Do you guys use/plan to use the extra space the blu-ray provides,for the benefit of the game,or its just to early for that yet?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arfi-Gorgona-O
Guys,someone to answer my question too?At least tell me if you cant so i wont ask again,even a no comment is good enough for me


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja Mikey
[NT-DEV] Chief Technology Ninja

Sorry Arfi - let\'s see if we can\'t get you a decent answer....

"Yes!"

There you go

Seriously though the game is gonna need a whole lot of data for all the levels and characters that we are planning. At Sony\'s presentation on Monday last week they had a slide showing that the storage medium for a console is usually 100 times the size of the consoles main RAM - the point being that a DVD wouldn\'t be able to hold enough data for a AAA quality game. So yes, we\'ll definitely be needing the space that\'s available on the BD!

http://www.ninjatheory.com/forums/sh...p?t=111&page=3



Quote:
Mar Rein:

Unreal Tournament was 6GB compressed. Next Generation games are going to be 20GB plus, and how we\'re going to fit them on DVD9\'s I don\'t know, they\'ll probably be a few of them. On the PS3, we\'re going to be using the majority of the space on those Blu-ray disks. So, online isn\'t really the best option in some instances.Downloading 30Gb isn\'t really feasible. What online could be, is the back-channel to get additional content. Patches and things like that. I think what Valve has done is great. It\'ll be interesting to see where marketing fits in. Now they\'re going with EA in the future, the biggest publisher of all. You can\'t do one without the other, otherwise no-one knows about your game. Unless you have the huge marketing budgets that major retailers have when launching your game, so I think there\'s still a very important role for retailers. For even more ownage here is an article about blu ray movies that already require and use 50gb discs

http://www.computerandvideogames.com....php?id=125925


Quote:
Toriyama and Versus producer Shinji Hashimoto:

"Toriyama and Versus producer Shinji Hashimoto defended the decision to release FFXIII on the PS3. According to Hashimoto, the development staff determined that one DVD would not be enough for the type of visual expression they were attempting to make. Toriyama noted that, regarding visual expression, the PS3\'s shader abilities are a big factor."

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/710/710761p1.html


Quote:

Q: Will the graphics improve from F1 05?

A: We try hard every year to improve where neccessary, but as I said before, the PS2 is running on it\'s limits with the 22 cars. Graphically it is similar to F105, although we believe that the driving experience is much more rewarding with the new kerbing and the new phyiscs. The PS3, though, is something else! That machine is a Beast! We are adding an enormous amount of graphic detail to absolutely everything. To give you some idea about detail levels, one car in the PS3 game takes up the same amount of memory as all 22 cars in the PS2 version!! That\'s a 22 fold increase! You can damage the sidepods on the PS3 cars and see in side the car and it has radiators and exhaust pipes and everything. It\'s awesome. Gameplay-wise the PS3 also allows us to use much more accuarate collision models. In a PS2, the car has an invisible sensor that detects collisions all the way around the car, but in the PS3, there is no single box you can get the wheels interlocked with the other cars.

http://www.f1gamers.com/f1/apanel/vi....php?id=130&pa
ge=4


Quote:
Ubisoft

OPM: How\'s your experience with the storage media of the PS3, the HDD and the BluRay disc? And do you have any comparable experience with HD-DVD technology?

M.M.: Our focus is 100% BluRay, so I cannot compare with HD-DVD. I can only say that the new BluRay disc format is truly awesome. The capacity is immense, and the Data Transfer Rate is way beyond what we are used to. And that\'s really important, because Data Streaming (OPMED: where the console constantly loads new data from disc) is truly the only way to push next-gen games to the limit. The Playstation 3 HDD is something that we have so far given less attention to, because it hasn\'t been certain all that long yet that it will be standard on every console. Decreasing load-times by copying a part of the game to the HDD is one possibility, though it doesn\'t matter all that much for a streaming game like ours. But there are tons of other applications, such as the possibility to as it were record your whole game, to be able to watch a replay of it later on. We intend to use the HD optimally, but how, I can\'t tell yet currently.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...essage?board.i
d=ps3&message.id=404546#M404546
Looks like blu-ray is going to make a real difference.

elitefaction.TK HTML and webdesign experts needed.

Just the first of soon to be multiple games that need bluray.  And please don\'t bring up PS1 generation multiple discs :rolleyes:

Why not?  It is a perfectly valid alternative.

Not to mention a cheaper one.
 
And useful as a marketing tool.
 
Publisher: "Two discs!"
Consumer: "Wow!!!"

Not that much of a good alternative if countless games start appearing on multible disks.

And not very likeable from developers either according to their statements.

No I agree. Having more space on one disc is great if they\'re going to fill it up with hi-def images. But if it\'s just for the odd game, then multiple discs is just as practical as ever.

Ahm...if the game needs more than 1 DVD withought any Hi-def movies its a different case? I dont get your logic

Those games are few and far between, so it\'s a non-issue unless developers start gobbling up space with hi-def images moving forward.
 
Which could happen.

[Living-In-Clip]

Those games are few and far between, so it\'s a non-issue unless developers start gobbling up space with hi-def images moving forward.
 
Which could happen.

Could happen, but doubtful. Developers are still not using the full space of the DVD format. Not saying it won\'t, but I truly doubt it.
+

doubt it within the next 6 months?

It\'s hard to say mm. I said it could happen, but I\'m not familiar with the development costs for creating something in high-def. I know the push towards realistic graphics and CGI cutscenes equated to rapidly increasing development costs.

If that trend continues, how could pushing the limits with high-def really be common place? Big developers, sure, but it\'s a tough business for the littler guys.

OK I looked up some information...

A single layered bluray disc is 25GB and can hold 2 hours of high definition video.  A dual-layered bluray disc is 50GB and can hold 4 hours of HD video.

A dual-layered DVD is 9GB and can only hold 40 minutes of HD video.

So if you do the math it takes 12.5 GB of space to hold 1 hour of high definition CG.  That\'s nearly 1 and a half dual layered DVDs for high def CG alone.  Games like Final Fantasy usually average 1 hr of CG.  

So that leaves Square Enix just 5.5GB to finish the rest of Final Fantasy XIII and keep it on 2 dual-layered DVDs.

But it\'s not just the usual suspects (RPGS) who are worried about the space.  The DOA team is concerned as well.  I really can\'t and dont want to see a 2 disc fighting game.  So before long I can imagine certain games in almost every genre will need more than 9GB of space.  

Recently I went over to a friend\'s house and he had all the LOTR special edition discs,  and I was shocked they had to spread the movie over 2 discs, (with the extras taking up yet 2 more discs)  and it was annoying as can be having to eject the discs over and over so he could just show me the extra scenes and easter eggs.  

Same goes with games.  Whenever I want to play FF7 again I want to sometimes go to disc 2 or then to 3 and believe me having to get up all the time to switch discs has gotten annoying after being so use to games being on one disc during the PS2 generation.  

Just like with PS2,  games at first probably won\'t need the extra space.  Alot of first generation PS2 games were released on CD.  Then almost every single game needed DVD.  I see this happening with the current generation.  

DVDs are fine for this generation if you don\'t mind losing titles like Final Fantasy XIII or you don\'t care about popping in disc 2 of the latest DOA game just to see the ending cutscene.

Could happen, but doubtful. Developers are still not using the full space of the DVD format. Not saying it won\'t, but I truly doubt it.
+

Maybe developers didnt use all 9GBs of dual-layered DVDs last generation,  but this generation there is absolutley no doubt that alot of games will blow by 9GBs.  Final Fantasy  XIII is the first game that I know of that has confirmed it was not possible on DVD,  and I\'m sure the list will continue to grow larger and larger as we get deeper into the PS3\'s lifespan.