US Healthcare

I mean if some of you really think "I have money so I can go to the doctor and poor people can just go die," then that\'s your view point.

My message to the poor.  Don\'t beg for money, get a job.  I understand that the job market isn\'t great, but how about becoming a waiter or working in retail until you get a better job.  It\'s not glamorous, but I\'d respect your efforts.

I\'ve been working since I was 14.  I have never had anything spoon fed to me.  Just about everything I own I worked for.  I spent two years working in child care when I was 14 so that I could buy myself a computer.  I spent my college years bartending and waiting tables so I could pay for college so I could get a better job.

Stop crying about there being nothing they can do.  I was poor, I\'ve been there, I\'ve experienced it.  The fact of the matter is the poor in this country feel they have a sense of entitlement.  I know its just a movie, but watch the pursuit of happiness.  If you put in the time and effort, you can overcome poverty.

President Kennedy was speaking about working together to bring about noble improvements in the condition of mankind.  
 

Now the trumpet summons us again - not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need; not as a call to battle, though embattled we are - but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation" - a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself.
 
Can we forge against these enemies a grand and global alliance, North and South, East and West, that can assure a more fruitful life for all mankind? Will you join in that historic effort?
 
In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shank from this responsibility - I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavour will light our country and all who serve it -- and the glow from that fire can truly light the world.
 
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.
 
My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.
 
Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God\'s work must truly be our own.

It seems that Conservatives and Libertarians do not want to participate in an alliance against poverty and disease.  Not willing to make a sacrifice to assist those in need.  I give you credit Mr. Kennedy for opposing war, but in other respects you are just like the Neocons.  "I got mine, you get yours."
 
The glow from our fire is not lighting the world.

[clips]

Didn\'t vote for the war?  Doesn\'t want more troops in afghanistan clips?



http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080714/world/obama_afghanistan_2

Well i actually agree with us being in afghanastan,..since the A**hole that attacked us is actually somewhere in that region....i thought you were referring to the iraq war,...so i respectfully disagree with you on the issue of afghanastan...

It seems that Conservatives and Libertarians do not want to participate in an alliance against poverty and disease.

I\'m not against fighting poverty and disease (I donate lots of money to cancer research).  I am against being FORCED by the government to surrender more of my paycheck each year to pay for wasteful government programs.

Well i actually agree with us being in afghanastan,..since the A**hole that attacked us is actually somewhere in that region....i thought you were referring to the iraq war,...so i respectfully disagree with you on the issue of afghanastan...

My bad clips, I thought you actually watched the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez5robAWmu4

In order to participate in the conversation you have to read/watch the material.

[Living-In-Clip]

I\'m not against fighting poverty and disease (I donate lots of money to cancer research).  I am against being FORCED by the government to surrender more of my paycheck each year to pay for wasteful government programs.

W.I.C
Welfare.
Healthcare.

Not wasteful government programs. They are there for a reason. Well, two of them are, we need the third..

[clips]

My bad clips, I thought you actually watched the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez5robAWmu4

In order to participate in the conversation you have to read/watch the material.

*sigh*...i was willing to disagree with you on the subject of afghanastan and leave the issue alone....what is it exactly that you want me to see in this vid?(i watched it previously)...Paul states that Obama doesn\'t want to bring the troops home and he doesn\'t want to balance the budget when that could not be further from the truth. He\'ll end the war in iraq, but more troops are needed to engage the enemy in afghanastan, so he\'ll most likely use more troops in that area, and i agree with that.

I know you all think I\'m "in it for myself", but I just have a different ideology.  Since we\'re throwing quotes around, here\'s one more for you, I feel it sums up my stance better than anything I could say.

No, a libertarian world isn\'t a perfect one. There will still be inequality, poverty, crime, corruption, man\'s inhumanity to man. But, unlike the theocratic visionaries, the pie-in-the-sky socialist utopians, or the starry-eyed Mr. Fixits of the New Deal and Great Society, libertarians don\'t promise you a rose garden. Karl Popper once said that attempts to create heaven on earth invariably produce hell. Libertarianism holds out, not the goal of a perfect society, but of a better and freer one. It promises a world in which more of the decisions will be made in the right way by the right person: you. The result will be, not an end to crime and poverty and inequality, but less of most of those things most of the time--often much less.

Also clips, your last post was actually impressive.  It responded to the topics in the video, I wish more of your posts were like that.  I do have to ask, how is he going to balance the budget with all of these government programs he\'s proposing?

[clips]

Also clips, your last post was actually impressive.  It responded to the topics in the video, I wish more of your posts were like that.  I do have to ask, how is he going to balance the budget with all of these government programs he\'s proposing?

You what?..you need to be a polititian...how is it you can criticize me in a nice way?..*damn you*......as far as Obama balancing the budget?....he\'s not going to be able to balance the budget in 4 or even 8 years. He did state that he does plan to pass his programs that are the most important for the american public(healthcare/energy programs/housing crisis/education) and i agree that he should, if we can spend billions in iraq every month, then it shouldn\'t be a problem for him to push programs that matter to americans the most.

He didn\'t say that he would exactly cut some of his programs, but he did state that some would probably have to be put on hold until the economy improves...but i think in reality, if he becomes prez & see\'s the actual numbers in terms of the economy, i\'m sure he\'s going to have to cut or make some sacrifices to his programs.

Me, I\'d like to think that America is so awesome, its citizens can get an xray and a cast if they break their leg. But I\'m a dreamer.

If universal health care is so great, why do Canadians, Cubans, and Europeans flock to America when they need immediate specialized health care? ….. Cause when they need help, they’re told to “Get in line!”

[Jumpman]

Same reason Americans flock to Canada when they need immediate care...

Because one (the vast minority of rich people) can afford it while the other cannot.

So basically the conclusion is... it works both ways.  Neither system is superior.  Each has advantages and disadvantages, and there are workarounds for both.

[GmanJoe]

Same reason Americans flock to Canada when they need immediate care...

Because one (the vast minority of rich people) can afford it while the other cannot.

Not that many go to Canada.

Not that many go to Canada.

I doubt there are any objective studies that capture these statistics.

[GmanJoe]

I doubt there are any objective studies that capture these statistics.

I\'m gonna go with the demographics of Buffalo\'s hospitals vs Toronto\'s.

And Wiki\'s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#Wait_times

One of the major complaints about the Canadian health care system is waiting times, whether for a specialist, major elective surgery, such as hip replacement, or specialized treatments, such as radiation for breast cancer. Studies by the Commonwealth Fund found that 57% of Canadians reported waiting 4 weeks or more to see a specialist; 24% of Canadians waited 4 hours or more in the emergency room.[20]

A March 2, 2004 article in the Canadian Medical Association Journal stated, "Saskatchewan is under fire for having the longest waiting time in the country for a diagnostic MRI — a whopping 22 months." [3]

A February 28, 2006 article in The New York Times quoted Dr. Brian Day as saying, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years."[21] In a 2007 episode of ABC News 20/20, host John Stossel cited numerous examples of Canadians who had difficulty accessing health care.[22]

According to the Fraser Institute, treatment time from initial referral by a GP through consultation with a specialist to final treatment, across all specialties and all procedures (emergency, non-urgent, and elective), averaged 17.7 weeks in 2005.[23][24] However, the Fraser Institute\'s report is greatly at odds with the Canadian government\'s own 2007 report.[25]

Since 2002, the Canadian government has invested $5.5 billion to address the wait times problem.[26] In April 2007, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced that all ten provinces and three territories would establish patient wait times guarantees by 2010. Canadians will be guaranteed timely access to health care in at least one of the following priority areas, prioritized by each province: cancer care, hip and knee replacement, cardiac care, diagnostic imaging, cataract surgeries or primary care.[27]

[edit] Medical professional shortage

Canada\'s shortage of medical practitioners causes problems.[28] With 2.2 doctors per thousand population, Canada is well below the OECD average of 3.0, although its 10 nurses per thousand was slightly above the OECD average of 8.6.[29] Suggested solutions include increasing the number of training spaces for doctors in Canada, as well as streamlining the licensing process for foreign doctors already in the country.[30]

Doctors in Canada make an average of $202,000 a year (2006, before expenses).[31] Alberta has the highest average salary of around $230,000, while Quebec has the lowest average annual salary at $165,000, creating interprovincial competition for doctors and contributing to local shortages.[31]

In 1991, the Ontario Medical Association agreed to become a province-wide closed shop, making the OMA union a monopoly. Critics argue that this measure has restricted the supply of doctors to guarantee its members\' incomes.[32]

According to a 2007 article, the Canadian medical profession is suffering from a brain drain. The article states, "One in nine trained-in-Canada doctors is practising medicine in the United States... If Canadian-educated doctors who were born in the U.S. are excluded, the number is one in 12." [4]

In September 2008, the Ontario Medical Association and the Ontarian government agreed to a new four-year contract that will see doctors receive a 12.25% pay raise. The new agreement is expected to cost Ontarians an extra $1 billion. Referring to the agreement, Ontario premier Dalton McGuinty said,"One of the things that we\'ve got to do, of course, is ensure that we\'re competitive ... to attract and keep doctors here in Ontario...".[33]