Something I pondered...

Those aren’t true Christian’s man. The name Christian means "little Christ". It was a term used to mock those that followed the teachings of Jesus. Jesus healed the lame and fed the hungry. He had no such fun at the expense of those who had any type of handicap. I would have been inclined to give those two hosers a sound lashing. Man that makes me angry!:mad:

Regarding dinosaurs - I believe that Scientists dating methods are completly wrong. I beleive the earth was created around 6500 years ago (est) along with EVERY single animal (even dinos). I beleive that dinos died out around the time of the flood. I beleive that a few \'dino\' species survived the flood (such as large lizards that we know today).

Also, if the earth was 60 millions years old, then the sun would have been too close to the earth for anyone to have been able to survive.

You see, the sun shrinks at a certain rate every single year, ever so slowly getting smaller (not small enough to make any issues for anyone in the next 6 milleniums)... But, if it was shrinking at the same rate as it is now, then at 60 million years ago, the sun would have been SO LARGE that nothing would have been able to survive on the earth.

No, I didn\'t just make this up.

Also MM, shows how often you go to church when you say \'wooden pues\' and \'stained glass windows\'. Freaking hell, Christian churches ARE NOT LIKE THAT. They are NORMAL buildings, with comfortable chairs! With coool music!

Gosh, it doesnt say in the Bible anywhere that church had to be boring!

me being a Buddhist i get to stay at home and watch all the football i like.  also i get to celebrate any religious holiday i feel like, as long as that religion is based on love.  (which most all are)  damn i rule!!

Originally posted by ##RaCeR##
Regarding dinosaurs - I believe that Scientists dating methods are completly wrong. I beleive the earth was created around 6500 years ago (est) along with EVERY single animal (even dinos). I beleive that dinos died out around the time of the flood. I beleive that a few \'dino\' species survived the flood (such as large lizards that we know today).

Also, if the earth was 60 millions years old, then the sun would have been too close to the earth for anyone to have been able to survive.

 

I don\'t mean to bag on your reasoning man, but my god, do u have a grip on how crazy this sounds?  Your saying that present day man was around during the same time as the dinos?  and your saying present day carbon 14 dating can be off by millions of years?  this is a bit far fetched

Wha...?? MM? Civil Argument? nahhhhhh...

Alright, about this religion business. I\'m Catholic, and that\'s all well and good, but the last 2 times I\'ve been in a catholic church were simply for a funeral. When they start ranting their usual stuff, and they ask the whole room to reply as a whole, I don\'t have the damndest clue as to how they know that sutff.

I\'m a passive catholic, and I believe in dinosaurs and such, and there are possibly way that Darwinism and Religion can relate as one, but that\'s for another discussion that I won\'t be caught dead discussing, simply because I don\'t know enough about it.

See Yuz.

Originally posted by luckee


for it to be that free..one shoudlnt even have to go as long as they prayed or had faith in the least..but it isnt like that now is it?

you\'re right about that, but praying and having faith is not what a church is all about.

as for the sun shrinking, this is a quote from the stanford solar center:"


There have been claims over the years that the Sun is contracting slowly over time. Here, we examine that claim.

Let us assume that the Sun is shrinking is by gravity. Then from the equation that scientists have for the change of the Sun\'s luminosity (luminosity is an energy output) versus its radius, the Sun would be shrinking in its radius 74 centimeters per year. We would have detected such a noticeable change over the past history (over 500 years this would be a 0.005 arc seconds difference in the radius of the Sun from our viewing position on the Earth), and we haven\'t detected such a change. So our observations don\'t show the Sun to be shrinking by gravitational contraction.


the only place that i found that talked about the sun actually shrinking was at a creationism site, and it\'s research was dated to 1980, remember people let\'s use critical thinking.  if you have a greatly bias site providing info that greatly supports there own beliefs, you have to take it with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by mm
actually, sunday is the 7th day, the day god rested

as should we all

the jewish sabbeth actually goes from friday sunset to saturday sunset...

so sunday is the 1st day.

About this first day of the week thing:

The common explanation is that the seven-day week was established as imperial calendar in the late Roman empire and furthered by the Christian church for historical reasons. The British Empire used the seven-day week and spread it worldwide. Today the seven-day week is enforced by global business and media schedules, especially television and banking.

The first pages of the Bible explain how God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. This seventh day became the Jewish day of rest, the sabbath, Saturday.

Extra-biblical locations sometimes mentioned as the birthplace of the 7-day week include: Babylon, Persia, and several others. The week was known in Rome before the advent of Christianity.

 - http://webexhibits.org/calendars/week.html

AND THEN:[/u]

What Is the First Day of the Week?

The Bible clearly makes the Sabbath the last day of the week, but does not share how that corresponds to our 7 day week. Yet through extra-biblical sources it is possible to determine that the Sabbath at the time of Christ corresponds to our current \'Saturday.\' Therefore it is common Jewish and Christian practice to regard Sunday as the first day of the week (as is also evident from the Portuguese names for the week days). However, the fact that, for example, Russian uses the name "second" for Tuesday, indicates that some nations regard Monday as the first day.

In international standard ISO-8601 the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) has decreed that Monday shall be the first day of the week.

 - (same source)




____________________________________________

Originally posted by theomen


I don\'t mean to bag on your reasoning man, but my god, do u have a grip on how crazy this sounds?  Your saying that present day man was around during the same time as the dinos?  and your saying present day carbon 14 dating can be off by millions of years?  this is a bit far fetched

Carbon dating is not as accurate as some people want to believe, we\'re not sure how close it is when we go back really far.

Here\'s what I think (take it for what it\'s worth):

Universe: 12-16 BYA
Our solar system: 5 BYA
Earth formed: 4.5 BYA
Cellular structures evolved on earth: 3.8-3.5 BYA
And that\'s as far as I am now in Organismal Biology @ UGA.

Originally posted by Troglodyte


Carbon dating is not as accurate as some people want to believe, we\'re not sure how close it is when we go back really far.

Here\'s what I think (take it for what it\'s worth):

Universe: 12-16 BYA
Our solar system: 5 BYA
Earth formed: 4.5 BYA
Cellular structures evolved on earth: 3.8-3.5 BYA
And that\'s as far as I am now in Organismal Biology @ UGA.

I agree with you, we had this conversation (about carbon 14) in my cultural anthropology class, it isn\'t as acurate as some think, but it is acurate enough to not be off by 64 million years.  it\'s alos only good for 50,000 years, but there are ways to tell if something came before another, i\'ll get into this in another post, shortly.

as for the shrinking sun argument, this is a link to a scientific study by the asa, i\'ll try to find some more if any1 is interested-
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/Astronomy-Cosmology/PSCF9-86VanTill.html
it\'s quite a good read.

Originally posted by mm
im VERY serious

if yer a true chrisitan, then  its inconceivable that  dinosaurs were put on earth by god millions of years before humans.  then what?  god killed them all?

my ex-fiances parents were VERY, VERY christian and boldly stated that dinosaurs never existed and that they are a facade created by the heathens to support the evolution theory.  that the skeletons in musuems were all fake.

i know what yer thinking,  :rolleyes:

hang on there mm, how do you know that earth was around millions ago?

the thing is that how old the earth is cannot be proved or disproved by science, because it\'s not observable or repeatable.

the \'old style\' scientists came up with the billions of years earth age from assuming that the rate of change (errosion for example) of the earth was constant.

however, recently \'new style\' scientists found that castrophies (floods, volcanos) can produce the same geological features over a period of a decade, of which \'old style\' scientists would have claimed to take hundreds of thousands of years to form.

so in short, we know dinosaurs did exist (because the skeletons ar there). we don\'t know how long they \'ruled\' the earth.

personally, i won\'t say that dinosaurs ever \'ruled\' the earth, becase God created man to rule the earth on the 6th day.

Originally posted by Ryu


Besides, who\'s going to Heaven first, the guy who is generally nice to everybody or the guy who would stomp you to death to get to Mariah Carey?  Enough said.

being nice is not a key to heaven, neither is stomping someone.

Originally posted by Alkimo



hang on there mm, how do you know that earth was around millions ago?

the thing is that how old the earth is cannot be proved or disproved by science, because it\'s not observable or repeatable.

the \'old style\' scientists came up with the billions of years earth age from assuming that the rate of change (errosion for example) of the earth was constant.

however, recently \'new style\' scientists found that castrophies (floods, volcanos) can produce the same geological features over a period of a decade, of which \'old style\' scientists would have claimed to take hundreds of thousands of years to form.

so in short, we know dinosaurs did exist (because the skeletons ar there). we don\'t know how long they \'ruled\' the earth.

personally, i won\'t say that dinosaurs ever \'ruled\' the earth, becase God created man to rule the earth on the 6th day.

The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.

While these values do not compute an age for the Earth, they do establish a lower limit (the Earth must be at least as old as any formation on it). This lower limit is at least concordant with the independently derived figure of 4.55 billion years for the Earth\'s actual age.

Originally posted by ROL Jamas
Wha...?? MM? Civil Argument? nahhhhhh...

Alright, about this religion business. I\'m Catholic, and that\'s all well and good, but the last 2 times I\'ve been in a catholic church were simply for a funeral. When they start ranting their usual stuff, and they ask the whole room to reply as a whole, I don\'t have the damndest clue as to how they know that sutff.

I\'m a passive catholic, and I believe in dinosaurs and such, and there are possibly way that Darwinism and Religion can relate as one, but that\'s for another discussion that I won\'t be caught dead discussing, simply because I don\'t know enough about it.

See Yuz.

Yes I am, but I dont want to get into any massive debate.

I believe that dinos were no more dangerous as were any other animal still alive today. I mean, just because scientists think they were man eaters doesnt make it true. Just because they have massive teeth, it doesnt mean they used them for meat (but the certainly may have). Lotsa animals have limbs/features that dont apply directly to lifestyle.

I also dont know enough about all this to coment on alot of it, but I have read alot of interesting things.

Also, if humans evolved from monkeys etc, then why arent animals these days still evolving? There is NO chemical proof to suggest that an animal can morph or evolve over time into something else.

But then again, I dont know much on the subject.

as i said carbon doesn\'t work for things over 50,000 years old there are ways to date items that are older than 50.000 years.
it involves measurement of three isotopes of lead (Pb-206, Pb-207, and either Pb-208 or Pb-204). A plot is constructed of Pb-206/Pb-204 versus Pb-207/Pb-204.

If the solar system formed from a common pool of matter, which was uniformly distributed in terms of Pb isotope ratios, then the initial plots for all objects from that pool of matter would fall on a single point.

Over time, the amounts of Pb-206 and Pb-207 will change in some samples, as these isotopes are decay end-products of uranium decay (U-238 decays to Pb-206, and U-235 decays to Pb-207). This causes the data points to separate from each other. The higher the uranium-to-lead ratio of a rock, the more the Pb-206/Pb-204 and Pb-207/Pb-204 values will change with time.