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Author Topic: Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world  (Read 6263 times)

Offline Living-In-Clip

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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2003, 02:51:35 PM »
Quote


So why isnt being pro-war trendy?


Because, that wouldn\'t fit in his argument and it would go against what he keeps spouting out.

:rolleyes:

Offline SirMystiq

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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2003, 10:07:21 PM »
More Retarded Views:

1.) Bush is covering up his daddy\'s mistakes.

2.) 75 Billion dollars for war!? WTF!?

3.) All of Iraq\'s neighbors are completely against this war. Except the ones that have been affected by them. Who the hell are we to play God or Guardian Angels? If they want to keep on getting bombed and killed by some Loco then let them be.

4.) Terrorism has been part of this world since the longest. There was terrorism way before 9/11. Not only in the US all over the world. But this war isn\'t about terrorism. If Hussain did sell Bio weapons to terrorist, how the hell are we going to stop them now? Why the hell didn\'t we stop him before? 9/11 was a rude awakening to Americans. Bush now feels threatened by every little thing. It\'s alright to want to protect his people, but you just can\'t rid the world of these kinds of things. Especially when most of the world is against their current actions.

5.) Unicorn is right, he has a completely different look at what is going on.

Put yourselves in the Iraqi people\'s position:

If you were here in the US, some country from the other side of the world lets say Russia decides that it doesn\'t like democracy any more and decides to rid the world of it. So they see how the people of these country are living and decide its not right for people to live like that. They decide that those people are unhappy, but they are forced to be happy because they are free. They decide the US are evil because of all the wars they have been involved with and the things they have done.
They decide to come and set us "free" according to what they believe we want. They go to the UN and try to get the world to free the US people. The UN doesn\'t agree that there should be a war....How do you feel?...Do you feel happy about the fact that you won\'t be in any danger and your family is safe?...Do you feel angry because you don\'t agree with Russia and you are happy the way things are?.......So they invade bomb our capital. You go to the capital and notice dead bodies lying around....your sister..your brother.....you go home watch the news and find that the Russians are saying "We are trying to prevent civilians deaths"...How do you feel then?...Only 4 people died during that attack, but among those people were your family. How do you feel?......

Your brother, uncle, grandpa, dad, are all in the army. They go to fight for what they believe is right. Russia claims they have no choice because they were trained to do so. Do you support them? Do you wish them well?...What about the Russian troops that are coming to "free" you?

You see protesters against this war all over the world. Do you hate them for doing so and hope Russians will succeed in freeing you? Or do you applaud them, and hope they get this war to stop so no more people you love get hurt?

...........

........

OH well, I tried. Some dude tried to brainwash us into not having sex with an article that asked those kind of questions....

Wether there was a war or not there would probably be protest anywas.

If there wasn\'t a war, Pro-War people would rally in the streets and make their case.
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

Offline Unicron!
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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2003, 09:48:56 AM »
From your replies I can only see that your government has succeded at covering up the truth.You arent even informed about the whole situiation.Your government succeeded their propaganda.

Offline Ace
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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2003, 09:52:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Unicron!
From your replies I can only see that your government has succeded at covering up the truth.You arent even informed about the whole situiation.Your government succeeded their propaganda.


Please, do not tell us that we are being fooled into something we don\'t understand.

There are many different types of media in the US with varying views and perspectives. It is up to the individual to take it all in and make a judgment on what to believe and what to throw away.

Ace
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Offline GigaShadow
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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2003, 09:52:41 AM »
Like Al Jazeer hasn\'t gotten to you?
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
[/i]
[/size]One Big Ass Mistake America

Global Warming ROCKS!!!![/b]

Offline Ashford
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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2003, 11:05:55 AM »
Russia and China shouldn\'t even talk after all that has happened in Afghanistan/Chechnya and Tibet...
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline Unicron!
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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2003, 03:03:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ace


Please, do not tell us that we are being fooled into something we don\'t understand.

There are many different types of media in the US with varying views and perspectives. It is up to the individual to take it all in and make a judgment on what to believe and what to throw away.

Ace


Not enough perspectives.You arent being fooled into something you dont understand.You understand what you see.You dont understand what you cant see.Or perhaps reject what you cant accept.

Everyone wants to beleive he/she is as independent or as unique as possible.But we live as masses.The end result is that even if someone is missinformed, fooled etc or even a bigot he/she will never realise it.When we are kids our personality and consious is like clay.It has no form or shape.Thats the target of a government.To shape it.What we see as children, hear or better, live form a personality which when we grow older rejects and chooses whatever fits with the past experiences.For example most protesters in New York dont have an american nationality.
Another example is when parties choose a person for future president for the next elections irregardless which candidate is the most qualified people will vote for the person that belongs to the party they belong to.Which of them is right?The democrats or the republicans?Can a party convince another party they are wrong?One of them must be right.

The same thing happens with nations.

How would I think if I was an Iraqui?How would I think if I was American?What if I was a Turk?A taliban?A russian?Or a French?

Do I really know if I am being fooled or not in Cyprus?Does an I iraqui know if he is being fooled?Do the Soudi Arabians understand they live under religious control that violates many of their rights?Perhaps thats how they realise a rightful life.Thats how they have grown.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2003, 03:06:09 PM by Unicron! »

Offline SirMystiq

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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2003, 05:37:23 PM »
"You arent being fooled into something you dont understand.You understand what you see.You don\'t understand what you cant see.Or perhaps reject what you cant accept."
                                ---Unicron---

Deep man, real deep........and so true so very true...
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

Offline Ace
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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2003, 05:48:07 PM »
I don\'t even know what that means.

Ace
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There never has been a time when the power of America was so necessary or so misunderstood . . .
Tony Blair\'s Address to Congress

Offline videoholic

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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2003, 06:11:55 PM »
I want to thank Unicron and Mr. Bling Bling (Mystiq) for making it very apparent that not a single intelligent human being can give a single reason why we shouldn\'t go to war.
I wear a necklace now because I like to know when I\'m upside down.
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Offline SirMystiq

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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2003, 07:00:12 PM »
It\'s not moral. War can never be a moral act, not even as a "last resort." In the best case, war is a necessary evil. What is the moral difference between a crusade and a jihad?

A war on Iraq would not qualify as a just war, conforming to a set of principles that have evolved among civilized societies. A just cause should not be confused with a just war.

A war on Iraq for the purpose of "regime change" would not be a legal war under international law. Article 2(4) of the UN Charter states: “All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations."

Bombing of civilian populations is a form of terrorism even more abhorrent than low-tech terrorist street bombings of innocents. This has been so ever since the first instance of "strategic" bombing (coincidentally, in Iraq, in 1917 by the British), up to the devastating bombing of Afghanis in our efforts to destroy Al Qaeda, and our continuing bombing raids into Iraq over the past ten years.

"Preemptive war" is anti-American. The concept was made infamous by Adolf Hitler, who claimed his aggression was necessary, to prevent attacks on Germany.

Killing fleeing conscripts in a "turkey shoot" like the one that ended the 1991 Gulf War, another likely feature of a new war in Iraq, is un-American, and will certainly take a postwar psychological toll on the combatants who participate in such repugnant acts, and on their families.

War without a new, specific U.N. resolution based upon evidence of Saddam\'s continued non-compliance with U.N. demands would undermine the U.N. and the ideal of a world system based on lawful principles.

War now would reaffirm ugly precedents in U.S. Constitutional law. The U.S. Congress has earned disrespect for its abdication of responsibility for declaring war. The shame is mitigated only by the fact that Bush has not yet rendered their abdication effective, by waging war without a declaration.

War always has corrosive effects on Constitutional rights. It brings out the worst in presidents, vice-presidents, and attorneys general who are tempted to take Nixonian shortcuts.

Saudi Arabia, not Iraq, is the homeland of Osama and most of his 9-11 suicide squad: "The U.S. warmly supports the royal kleptocracy next door in Saudi Arabia, fully as totalitarian, if not quite as violent, as Saddam\'s government. Any non-Muslim and most women would probably prefer living in Iraq," points out the conservative National Review, in an antiwar editorial.


Internationally, too, PR techniques, propaganda, and intelligence operations are replacing diplomacy and genuine culture-to-culture outreach in our dealings with other nations, a process war will accelerate.

War will also accelerate our drift toward empire, increasingly the subject of popular discourse, cover articles in magazines, learned journal articles.

In a war on Iraq we\'ll lose friends all around the world. That\'s true generally. Specifically:

War on Iraq would have serious consequences in Turkey, where sympathy for 9-11 has faded and antiwar protests reinforce polls that show not only opposition to war on Iraq, but also that only 30% support America\'s war on terrorism.

War plans are alienating the French public, where 75% believe that  "the main reason the United States would go to war with Iraq would be \'because the U.S. wants to control Iraqi oil.\'" A L\'Humanité poll published Jan. 17 tracks antiwar sentiment: "Asked by the CSA polling agency whether they would support US intervention in Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein, 66 percent of those who responded said they were opposed, up from 58 percent in a poll conducted in August." We read reports this morning (Jan. 21) that France will not only oppose immediate military action, but will seek "to mobilize the European Union to avert a war against Iraq."

The British are not with us. In the wake of massive demonstrations in the U.K. (200,000 in London last September, a survey found that 69 percent of Britons felt that Mr. Blair was too supportive of US policy toward Iraq." A Jan. 15 BBC poll asked, "Has the government proved the case for a war with Iraq? 81% said no. Just 19% said yes." A poll reported today (Jan. 21) "shows that opposition to a war has risen steadily from 37% in October to 47% now." "British military leaders question mission and ethics " of a preemptive war, the Guardian reports (Feb. 5).

Pakistanis are against war on Iraq. In a recent poll, 70% of the Pakistani public said they hold an unfavorable view of our country. A Yankee war would fuel the fires of Islamist extremists there who, should an unstable government fall, could inherit Pakistan\'s nuclear weapons.

War will create new terrorists. "9-11" has been described as an unintended consequence of the 1991 Gulf War. Certainly, experts agree, Osama has little genuine interest in the plight of Palestinians or other Mideast issues. Osama\'s stated casus belli and recruitment tool was the U.S. violation of sacred Saudi soil.

Arms inspectors are saying that Iraqi officials have granted completely open access to every site, are permitting the questioning of Iraqi scientists, and are otherwise in compliance with U.N. Resolution 1441.

A war with Iraq would be very costly. "Informal estimates by congressional staff and Washington think tanks of the costs of an invasion of Iraq and a postwar occupation of the country have been in the range of $100 billion to $200 billion. If the fighting is protracted, and Iraqi President Saddam Hussein blows up his country\'s oil fields, most economists believe the indirect costs of the war could be much greater," according to various reports.

Occupation of Iraq would be a disaster. "You ought to see a therapist if you want to occupy Iraq," says political scientist Charles A. Kupchan "It\'s just the last place I would want to set up shop. The whole region is deeply anti-American. They\'ll probably be dancing in the streets for 24 to 48 hours and then they\'ll take up sniper positions. That\'s where I think things could go wrong with barracks exploding, etc. If that were to happen, at the end of the day it would cause us to pull in our horns and cause Americans to say, \'What have we gotten ourselves into?\'"

Postwar trials will prove embarrassing for American officials and corporate executives, as we hear testimony from Iraqi officials whose war crimes were committed under U.S. tutelage – in the 1980\'s when Saddam was our ally/client fighting Iran.

The rationale for preemptive strikes and the war against terror gives the Chinese a free hand to "preempt" "terrorists" in their own sphere of interest.

It gives the Russians a rationale to deal preemptively with Chechens and other dissidents.

It gives the Turks a precedent in dealing with their Kurds.

In fact, it so violates established precedents and principles of international law that it sets back the progress of the past 60 years of U.N. development.

The war policy is tainted by politics. War hype was postponed until the weeks immediately prior to the November 2002 elections. The explanation from White House chief of staff Andrew Card: "From a marketing point of view, you don\'t introduce new products in August."

U.S. policy vis-à-vis Saddam has been dominated by a clique of hawks (the Wolfowitz-Perle-Cheney "cabal" in the Pentagon), whose agenda has not been publicly aired and subjected to evaluation or Congressional debate.

Brent Scowcroft has argued against precipitous military action in Iraq.

"Already, the preparations for war are distracting Washington from the task of rebuilding Afghanistan," as Michael Massing writes in The Nation.

And from the ongoing violence in the Middle East.

War is also providing cover for political abuse here at home. When licenses to administration cronies for drilling in Alaska can be wrapped up in a "patriotic" agenda, we know we\'re near the bottom of the barrel.

The plight of the cities, and the economic problems afflicting all 50 states, also take a back seat when the country goes to war.

War will evoke massive antiwar rallies, further straining citizens\' relationships with local authorities, and further draining city budgets.

The talk of a "perpetual war," so reminiscent of Orwell\'s novel, 1984, suggests a willingness to accept a long-term suspension of civil rights, looser reins on Federal prosecutors, and more secret tribunals.

A "perpetual war" would also tend to institutionalize paramilitary practices on the part of police departments who will have to develop new routines for handling civil disobedience.

Despite claims that they are stalling or lying, in fact Saddam\'s officials appear to be complying with every request from U.N. inspectors.

There is no evidence justifying a war. The Bush administration has claimed to have it but they have not produced it – either to make their case to the American public or (as far as we know) to guide U.N. arms inspectors who have asked for it. Only this week (Jan. 14) did chief U.N. inspector Hans Blix announce that some materials "from several sources" have become available.

So far, the evidence formally presented has been a 50-page dossier British Prime Minister Tony Blair, presumably fortified if not supplied by U.S. intelligence, which was treated disdainfully by liberal and conservative critics alike: "While there was limited support for the prime minister\'s position that \'the threat [presented by Saddam Hussein] is serious and current,\' most commentators felt that the dossier failed to put forward a compelling case for military action in Iraq. Unusually in Britain\'s adversarial journalistic culture, feelings about the dossier were even strong enough to unite editorial writers from different ends of the political spectrum."
Don\'t try to confuse me with what you call  facts, my mind is already made up.

Offline Living-In-Clip

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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2003, 11:42:54 PM »
I never thought Mystic could post something half-intelligent, but he did. Sad part is, you people are so dead-set on war, than it won\'t matter. It\'ll give swept under the rug as "idiotic".

Offline mm
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« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2003, 04:01:07 AM »
could i get a condensed version of what he wrote?
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Offline videoholic

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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2003, 04:09:59 AM »
LIC, you really think he wrote that?  Let me guess, did he look up the UN charters to find Artcle #24 so that he could quote it?

I love this one: "Bombing of civilian populations is a form of terrorism even more abhorrent than low-tech terrorist street bombings of innocents. "

Since when have we been bombing civilian populations?  We are bombing military targets.  Hell, we haven\'t even knocked out their broadcast station yet because they built it next to a hospital (Or a daycare or something ridiculous, can\'t remember).  The Iraqi military in Basra have killed more civilians than we have.


And he is quoting Charles A. Kupchan....  Do you even know who that is?

Whatever.  I can\'t read anymore of this crap.  find your own shit and write yourself.  Otherwise give whoever you stole this from some friggen credit.
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Offline Unicron!
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Destruction of world order.What the USA government is causing to the world
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2003, 08:05:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by videoholic
I want to thank Unicron and Mr. Bling Bling (Mystiq) for making it very apparent that not a single intelligent human being can give a single reason why we shouldn\'t go to war.


And I want to thank everyone on this forum that support this war for making it very apparent, the few people that govern can manipulate millions of people.

 

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