What side are you on?

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by GigaShadow
1.  That will change.

2.  Don\'t quote the 80\'s in that context if you don\'t even remember them.

3.  What do you not understand Mystiq... No habla English?  The Declaration of Independence IS NOT the Constitution.  There are no laws in the DoI.

4.  I fast forwarded past your mindless rant about Iraq and Bin Laden...  Now as for your claim about being rich to go to college... yeah I am rich :rolleyes: that is why I have $30,000 in Federal Student Loans I am repaying :rolleyes: Unlike you, I don\'t get grants (a grant is money you don\'t have to pay back) for being a minority.  I had to borrow money to get my education - I would bet there are not many people on this board who have gone to college and paid for it all with cash.  

You think everyone besides you and your mexican pals have it so easy here in the US.  Think again.  The US is no longer a level playing field.  If you are white you are at a disadvantage - whether it is paying for college, starting a business or getting a home loan.  Those are just a few examples.  Don\'t believe me - ask any banker.

1.) You keep telling yourself that...

2.) I know that those years there was alot of tension between whites and any other race.

3.) I never said it was the law. The DOI was written with some of the prime beliefs of the people at the time.

4.) You\'re right. White people are the only ones in the US that have to pay for college and don\'t have the opportunity to get a grant. There are no scholarships out there for white people...Give me a break. Did you try to apply for any Scholarships? What were your ACT/SAT grades?(I\'m assuming that they were around back then) What rank where you in when you graduated high school?

These "grants" minorities earn are also earned. Private companies fund this grants and have the right to give it to whomever they so please. There are Government grants but most of them are open to everybody. You can\'t be succesful without trying. Minorities, immigrants, blacks they all work their asses of whether you fail to recognize it or not. The difference is that they can\'t afford to feed their families by earning 5.50 an hour and they can\'t afford to live nowhere else but the "projects" and live off welfare. Did you ever have to live through down right poverty?

America is unequal. It has always been and probably will always be. It will never be balanced b/c there will always be people who consider that their race is treated worst than the others. But by saying that my Mexicans "pals" have more opportunity...I think you\'re wrong. If you are implying that they are illegal then they can\'t take out a house loan, they can\'t start a business and they can\'t get good jobs. If you got to a construction site what do you see? Minorities. It\'s not a matter of getting a job or not for the white people, it\'s a matter of getting the job they want. "Immigrants do the work that Americans aren\'t willing to do" If the white people are so at a disadvantage, why don\'t they go make lines at a construction site, McDonalds, Taco Bell, Wal-mart...I know this for a fact. My aun\'ts husband owns a construction company in Denton and I\'ve seen the lines that form out when he is hiring...nothing but blacks, mexicans and even a few Asians. There were a few white people...and they spoke spanish.

[clips]

Originally posted by SirMystiq
1.) You keep telling yourself that...

2.) I know that those years there was alot of tension between whites and any other race.

3.) I never said it was the law. The DOI was written with some of the prime beliefs of the people at the time.

4.) You\'re right. White people are the only ones in the US that have to pay for college and don\'t have the opportunity to get a grant. There are no scholarships out there for white people...Give me a break. Did you try to apply for any Scholarships? What were your ACT/SAT grades?(I\'m assuming that they were around back then) What rank where you in when you graduated high school?

These "grants" minorities earn are also earned. Private companies fund this grants and have the right to give it to whomever they so please. There are Government grants but most of them are open to everybody. You can\'t be succesful without trying. Minorities, immigrants, blacks they all work their asses of whether you fail to recognize it or not. The difference is that they can\'t afford to feed their families by earning 5.50 an hour and they can\'t afford to live nowhere else but the "projects" and live off welfare. Did you ever have to live through down right poverty?

America is unequal. It has always been and probably will always be. It will never be balanced b/c there will always be people who consider that their race is treated worst than the others. But by saying that my Mexicans "pals" have more opportunity...I think you\'re wrong. If you are implying that they are illegal then they can\'t take out a house loan, they can\'t start a business and they can\'t get good jobs. If you got to a construction site what do you see? Minorities. It\'s not a matter of getting a job or not for the white people, it\'s a matter of getting the job they want. "Immigrants do the work that Americans aren\'t willing to do" If the white people are so at a disadvantage, why don\'t they go make lines at a construction site, McDonalds, Taco Bell, Wal-mart...I know this for a fact. My aun\'ts husband owns a construction company in Denton and I\'ve seen the lines that form out when he is hiring...nothing but blacks, mexicans and even a few Asians. There were a few white people...and they spoke spanish.

damn..those are all good points..i just want to point something out and i\'m not sure if i\'m totally right on this but here it goes. It seems that if you are born in this country & try to get a loan it will be harder you to get it than somebody just coming into this country. i don\'t think race has anything to do with it..i\'m not sure tho. Even if you\'re a mexican born here i think it will be harder for that mexican born here to get that loan than it is for the mexican that wasn\'t born here.

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by clips
damn..those are all good points..i just want to point something out and i\'m not sure if i\'m totally right on this but here it goes. It seems that if you are born in this country & try to get a loan it will be harder you to get it than somebody just coming into this country. i don\'t think race has anything to do with it..i\'m not sure tho. Even if you\'re a mexican born here i think it will be harder for that mexican born here to get that loan than it is for the mexican that wasn\'t born here.

From my understanding I believe that alot of grant\'s given out are only to Citizens. There are some exceptions though. I honestly believe that when it comes to those things they are all equal levels. The only reason why theres "mexican grants" or "black people grants" is b/c there are private companies/corporations or whatever that feel the need to help out their own "kind" you know.

Originally posted by SirMystiq
1.) You keep telling yourself that...

2.) I know that those years there was alot of tension between whites and any other race.

3.) I never said it was the law. The DOI was written with some of the prime beliefs of the people at the time.

4.) You\'re right. White people are the only ones in the US that have to pay for college and don\'t have the opportunity to get a grant. There are no scholarships out there for white people...Give me a break. Did you try to apply for any Scholarships? What were your ACT/SAT grades?(I\'m assuming that they were around back then) What rank where you in when you graduated high school?

These "grants" minorities earn are also earned. Private companies fund this grants and have the right to give it to whomever they so please. There are Government grants but most of them are open to everybody. You can\'t be succesful without trying. Minorities, immigrants, blacks they all work their asses of whether you fail to recognize it or not. The difference is that they can\'t afford to feed their families by earning 5.50 an hour and they can\'t afford to live nowhere else but the "projects" and live off welfare. Did you ever have to live through down right poverty?

America is unequal. It has always been and probably will always be. It will never be balanced b/c there will always be people who consider that their race is treated worst than the others. But by saying that my Mexicans "pals" have more opportunity...I think you\'re wrong. If you are implying that they are illegal then they can\'t take out a house loan, they can\'t start a business and they can\'t get good jobs. If you got to a construction site what do you see? Minorities. It\'s not a matter of getting a job or not for the white people, it\'s a matter of getting the job they want. "Immigrants do the work that Americans aren\'t willing to do" If the white people are so at a disadvantage, why don\'t they go make lines at a construction site, McDonalds, Taco Bell, Wal-mart...I know this for a fact. My aun\'ts husband owns a construction company in Denton and I\'ve seen the lines that form out when he is hiring...nothing but blacks, mexicans and even a few Asians. There were a few white people...and they spoke spanish.

1. :rolleyes:

2.  There was no more tension in the 80\'s than there is now.  Like I said don\'t talk about things unless you know for certain they are true. :rolleyes:

3.  YOU DID IMPLY that the DOI was the same thing as the Bill of Rights.  Now you are trying to backpedal.  

4.  Really... there are grants specifically for White Anglo Saxons?  Based soley on their race?  I don\'t know what planet you live in.  The grants minorities earn aren\'t earned... have you ever heard of quotas??  I believe some school in Michigan recently wanted to do away with the quota system and they were attacked by minority groups for trying to make the college admissions based on performance rather than race.  

Also, don\'t lump blacks in with the Mexicans.  The blacks in this country for the most part are citizens and are entitled to everything this country has to offer.  The illegal immigrants are entitled to NOTHING.  It is the illegals that hurt the other minorities in this country by taking jobs away from those minorites that are here legally.

Oh and whites do work at "Taco Bell, McDonalds, and do construction work" - come to Alabama some time and see for yourself.  

On the issue of language, I am not going to let my son learn Spanish...  I refuse to... it is not part of our heritage and I don\'t feel that he should be forced to learn a language to accomodate those too lazy to learn English.  Some of you may say I am going to be hindering my son\'s opportunities...  I don\'t believe so.  If he is successful than anyone he deals with whether they are from another country or a different culture will most likely speak English as it has become the worlds universal language.

[GmanJoe]

The definition of Minority is changing to "Non-Asian Minority". The euphemism is not used but that\'s basically what it means. When universities site that they have met "quotas", minority leaders say "No, not Asians, we meant non-Asian minorities". Apparently, Asians exceed the average test scores among minorities and ironically, are now finding it hard to get accepted in top universities.

Why? Quotas. A few years ago, too many Asians and not enough non-Asians are being accepted so RECENTLY, the quotas were changed.

Dang it! I have a meeting to attend! AARGH!

Originally posted by GigaShadow
No they have them for minorities as well - regardless of income.  I have yet to see a white folks grant though

I think you might be confusing grants and scholarships. Grants are given 99.99% of the time to low income students. I can\'t even think of any that AREN\'T need based. Scholarships are pretty arbitrary.

Even some of the bigger scholarships for blacks/latinos can and have been awarded to whites. Its just that a lot of white people don\'t know that. Some people have even tried to apply to the united negro college fund thinking that they could sue for discrimination and they got the scholarship.

Its all about perspective. There are scholarships that are offered to school minorities(whatever the minority is at a particular school) which were intended for blacks/latins/asians but went to whites and asians at historically black Colleges and Universitys.

Another thing you have to take into account is that blacks only make up 11% of all college students with latinos and asians making up even less at 9 and 6% respectively. So its more of an attempt to raise the admission levels of all minorities.

There are no "whites-only" scholarships and grants; but by the force of sheer numbers they end up that way.

Nah I am not confusing scholarships with grants... scholarships are earned and those who win them should get them - I really don\'t have a problem with that.  What I do have a problem with are the grants  - who the hell wants to come out of school after getting their Bachelors and Masters degrees with $60,000 + of debt?  Just because someone is poor they should go to school for free while someone from the middle class should be saddled in debt upon graduation?

^^^The thing about that is there aren\'t that many grants that cover a full 4 years of college. Most of the larger grants just give a nice amount of money that lowers tuition. They still have to take out loans and things like that. They just end up in LESS debt when they get out of school.

I don\'t have a problem with grants that make college a little more affordable. I have a problem with colleges that make the tuition so high that grants are needed in the first place.

{EDIT} No point in making this thread TOO political.

Well I can\'t relate what we are spending on Foreign Aid to College Tuition, but you are right that the average college tuition is out of perspective with what you get when you graduate.  Lower tuitions are the responsibility of the individual institutions and not the government.

^^^Yeah thats true. It is the responsibility of the schools; but they have a racket. They know that we HAVE to go so they will charge as much as they can get. Supply and Demand. Just like book publishers who put out a new edition of a $130 book every year so that students can\'t resell their old versions.

You hit the nail on the head about the book prices Samurai.  That is one of the rackets in the University system.  They sell you a new one for $130.00 buy it back from you for $20 and resell it used for $115.00 - talk about a rip off.

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by GigaShadow
1. :rolleyes:

2.  There was no more tension in the 80\'s than there is now.  Like I said don\'t talk about things unless you know for certain they are true. :rolleyes:

3.  YOU DID IMPLY that the DOI was the same thing as the Bill of Rights.  Now you are trying to backpedal.  

4.  Really... there are grants specifically for White Anglo Saxons?  Based soley on their race?  I don\'t know what planet you live in.  The grants minorities earn aren\'t earned... have you ever heard of quotas??  I believe some school in Michigan recently wanted to do away with the quota system and they were attacked by minority groups for trying to make the college admissions based on performance rather than race.  

Also, don\'t lump blacks in with the Mexicans.  The blacks in this country for the most part are citizens and are entitled to everything this country has to offer.  The illegal immigrants are entitled to NOTHING.  It is the illegals that hurt the other minorities in this country by taking jobs away from those minorites that are here legally.

Oh and whites do work at "Taco Bell, McDonalds, and do construction work" - come to Alabama some time and see for yourself.  

On the issue of language, I am not going to let my son learn Spanish...  I refuse to... it is not part of our heritage and I don\'t feel that he should be forced to learn a language to accomodate those too lazy to learn English.  Some of you may say I am going to be hindering my son\'s opportunities...  I don\'t believe so.  If he is successful than anyone he deals with whether they are from another country or a different culture will most likely speak English as it has become the worlds universal language.

1.) :rolleyes: You sure like that :rolleyes:

2.) People like you keep them that way.


3.) "We hold this truths to be self-evident, that ALL MEN are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalianable rights, among these are LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, to secure these rights, governments are instituted..."

The Declaration of Independence...Republicans should read that once in a while.
^^^ That\'s what I said. No where did I state that they were rules or laws, they are the basic believes of which the people sought independece.

4.) I believe Quotas affect whites also. The schools have to accept a percentage of blacks, whites, hispanics and so on. Right? So therefore, white people aren\'t really being discriminated against. Furthermore, with quotas anybody can be discriminated. In San Francisco the parents of Chinese students sued the school district b/c their kids weren\'t accepted into the school because the quotas have been filled.

I firmly stand on my position when dealing with the "clumping" of African Americans and Mexicans/Mexican-Americans. Why? B/c their community was one of the most harrased by the whites. The Hispanics are fighting now for the same rights the African Americans where fighting for. They were too "illegal" when they were slaves. But they gained their freedom when they helped fight the Civil War...Kind of like how many Mexican/Latin Americans are fighting the war in Iraq and Afghanistan now. They didn\'t have rights at all even if they were legal. They fought for their rights and eventually overcame their adversaries who opposed to them having any kinds of rights. That\'s the reason why I mention them also and to take it further, I "clump" all minorities together legal and illegal because they all have to or have overcome the simple minded thinking that has veiled some of today\'s Americans.

Well I never been to Alabama. I live in Texas and I report what I see.

I feel great sorrow for your kid. If you are raising your kid in such a segregated way then you really haven\'t learned anything from the past centuries of trouble this country has endured. Learning Spanish or any other language will offer many new opportunities to make friends, obtain a job and even meet his "significant other". My aunt\'s husband is white, the only reason he learned Spanish was too try to talk to my aunt...Anyways I really have nothing else to say on that subject. Any kind of language learned will be a token that can help anybody in the future. Whether you refuse to believe it or accepted, it\'s the simple truth.

And you failed to mention why you didn\'t apply for a Scholarship...

Right now I have many Scholarship opportunities and yes even from some "Hispanic Scholarships". But:

1.) Numero 9 in my class rank
2.) Took 8 APs and passed 6 of the exams. (Damn Chemistry and CS)
3.) I haven\'t taken any ACT/SAT but I\'ll get around to that soon.

For the last time Mystiq - try and comprehend that the Declaration of Independence is exactly how it sounds - a declaration proclaiming this country\'s independence from Britain - IT IS NOT A LAW - if you want to quote something quote the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.  Those are laws and would make a valid argument.

White people aren\'t being discriminated against due to the quota system???  Tell that to the kid who has all the grades and test scores, yet gets denied acceptance due a college having to take a minority that has inferior grades and test scores - THAT IS DISCRIMINATION.

I didn\'t feel like applying for any scholarships as you have to fill out enough paperwork to get student loans alone and I was 32 when I went through school to get my masters degree - they didn\'t give a crap about my class rank in high school LMAO... sheesh... My SAT\'s scores were somewhere slightly above 1200 and what class system would rank you at 9?  The remedial classes maybe?  Let me know what college accepts you (cough cough).  Don\'t even try and present yourself as even remotely intelligent or superior to me intellectually - just look at your moronic OJ thread as an example.

Oh don\'t feel sorry for my child, for he will never have friends like you.  You wouldn\'t be welcome in my house - and it has nothing to do with your race.  Its your tacky bling bling taste in everything and your moronic views on this country.

A black student getting a 28 on the ACT is about the same as a white student getting a 31 or 32.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
White people aren\'t being discriminated against due to the quota system???  Tell that to the kid who has all the grades and test scores, yet gets denied acceptance due a college having to take a minority that has inferior grades and test scores - THAT IS DISCRIMINATION.

Quotas are illegal. I don\'t think anyone uses quotas.