Bombs kill 173 in Spain

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Actually the communists aren\'t nearly as bad as you socialists... at least they had (USSR) a spine and dealt with threats instead of submitting to them.  Fast forward to Russia today and you see the same thing - When terrorists attacked that theater in Moscow - it didn\'t deter Putin from doing what was right - don\'t negotiate with terrorists.

Communism is socialism with a dictator.

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
It is easy for you to condemn Europe during WW2 when you know what happened.

You can\'t predict the future, at the time, avoiding another World War was a better option.

:bsflag:

Churchill saw it coming from a mile away and he wasn\'t alone.  Europe is hollow shell of its former self for the most part.  I am not condemning all Europeans, but most of the ones I have seen here spouting their misguided and illogical opinions are quite worthless.

Can someone list the main differences between all the different types of governments?

Communism, Socialism, etc etc etc and a country for each...

Originally posted by Ashford
Can someone list the main differences between all the different types of governments?

Communism, Socialism, etc etc etc and a country for each...

Here is what Socialism is:

As defined by the American Heritage Dictionary

"Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy."

or by Princeton University\'s Worldnet

"n 1: a political theory advocating state ownership of industry 2: an economic system based on state ownership of capital."

Socialism is often looked at as being soley a "welfare state", but that is not true as state ownership of industry is key in defining what a socialist country is.  

Sweden for example, is NOT a socialist country since 90% of its industry is privately owned.

Communism is like socialism - as Black Samurai said it is socialism with a dictator - Cuba, North Korea, etc.

A lot of European countries like to look at themselves as socialist - ie. Sweden when in fact all they really are are welfare states.  Sweden has a population of roughly 9 million - which is about the size of NYC and is far better suited for welfare programs than a country like the US.  In some respects countries like Sweden are more "comfortable" for living than the US, but it does have its drawbacks.  No military, high illegitimacy rate (53%), 20% higher suicide rate than the US - and lets bring up the "forced sterilization" that was practiced for 40 years to try and model Sweden into the ultimate welfare state by lowering its population growth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Originally posted by GigaShadow

 No military, high illegitimacy rate (53%), 20% higher suicide rate than the US - and lets bring up the "forced sterilization" that was practiced for 40 years to try and model Sweden into the ultimate welfare state by lowering its population growth. [/B]

No military? During the cold war we could mobilize 800 000 men with the 4th largest airforce in the world, though the military is smaller today its still one with the highest technological standard (JAS 39 Gripen is the world\'s best light weight multi role combat aircraft in production).

Bofors AT4, Carl Gustav, ring a ding-ding-dingely bell?

higher suicide rate

Actually that might have been true 20 years ago, but today.. No

forced sterilization

:rolleyes: And this is something caused by socialism? Please. Why bring up something old btw? Trying to smear something on us?

Originally posted by fastson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism



 

No military? During the cold war we could mobilize 800 000 men with the 4th largest airforce in the world, though the military is smaller today its still one with the highest technological standard (JAS 39 Gripen is the world\'s best light weight multi role combat aircraft in production).

Bofors AT4, Carl Gustav, ring a ding-ding-dingely bell?

 

Actually that might have been true 20 years ago, but today.. No

 

:rolleyes: And this is something caused by socialism? Please. Why bring up something old btw? Trying to smear something on us?

Sweden is neutral and hasn\'t been in a war since the 18th century.  It only figures that pacifism runs rampant in Sweden.  Yes I agree, you do have some technological marvels, but as far as defense spending goes - it is microscopic compared to the US.  During the Cold War, the only thing protecting Sweden was the US/NATO alliance - otherwise the USSR would have gobbled Sweden up and made it another Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia.

If I wanted to run a smear campaign I would just ask what percentage of the Swedish population works?  For those who are curious the answer is roughly 17 percent!  The rest are either in school, on pension, on "stress leave", or on sick leave...  It is a slackers paradise!  I have to admit I am a bit envious though.  The government acts as your safety net if you become ill or jobless.  Here in the US we are fighters... survivors if you will... we have to battle for a decent education and a good job.  If we become unemployed we will most likely lose our homes and most of other vital possessions (ie. automobile).  

Yes, the Swedish policy of forced sterilization was due to the attempt at creating the perfect welfare state.  There is no way the Swedish welfare system could work with a high population.

Don\'t be bringing up the past giga, America has a bad one.

Originally posted by ViVi
Don\'t be bringing up the past giga, America has a bad one.

Is 1970 that long ago?  Please... I can bring up the current if you like.  It is typical for non US citizens to point out all the flaws with the US - I find it ironic that those same people get upset when part of their shadowy past is brought to light.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Sweden is neutral and hasn\'t been in a war since the 18th century.  It only figures that pacifism runs rampant in Sweden.  Yes I agree, you do have some technological marvels, but as far as defense spending goes - it is microscopic compared to the US.  During the Cold War, the only thing protecting Sweden was the US/NATO - otherwise the USSR would have gobbled Sweden up and made it another Lithuania/Latvia/Estonia.

Yes we are neutral, it was a strategy we took on after WW1. Yes we haven’t been in war since the 1814. Why? It was a choice we took on after 1721, you see we used to be a great power in the 1600-1700.. The cost of this was a almost constant state of war in the 1600-1700 (untill 1721), where Russia, Denmark, Poland, the small German states etc. wanted to get back what they had lost to us.

If I wanted to run a smear campaign I would just ask what percentage of the Swedish population works?  For those who are curious the answer is roughly 17 percent!

And may I ask for a source?

If we become unemployed we will most likely lose our homes and most of other vital possessions (ie. automobile).

And that shows how much you know about our system
If you want to apply for welfare you must present what our own etc. If you have a car, you might have to sell it before they will grant you welfare (depends on how long you expect to be on it), while you are on welfare you MUST activly seek employment.

Its your right to get welfare as a Swedish citizen, its nice to know that its there if something happens. It is not designed to pay for you for longer periods of time.. The welfare office and AMS (Arbetsförmedlingen = employment service) will help you with employment.

Yes, the Swedish policy of forced sterilization was due to the attempt at creating the perfect welfare state.

Never heard this, I have only read about it when talking about people with mental disturbances. May I have a source?

How did we go from the bombings in Madrid, to slamming socialism, to slamming sweden? :eek:

Bored and decided to pick on the insignificant neutral country of Sweden since Adan isn\'t around to defend Spain

As for the sterilization - yes, you are right it did involve disabled and those deemed genetically "inferior."  60,000 is a lot for a country of 9 million.

http://www.athensnewspapers.com/1997/082797/0827.a4sweden.html

Thanks.

And the source for only 17% of the people working?

Hold on talking on the phone and have a crisis at home...  The figure is for those working at any one time and represents the entire population, but I will get you a reference.

Thats nice.. But it does not say anything about them sterilizing to keep the population down and to preserve the welfare system?
Other than that, nothing new under the sun.. It has been known for years, and these news must be pretty old? Carl Bildt retired in 1999 from the party.

"The figure is for those working at any one time and represents the entire population, but I will get you a reference."

I have already checked the figures from SCB and you are way off..

http://www.scb.se/templates/tableOrChart____23314.asp

[clips]

still this does not bode well for spain, regardless if they wanted to send troops or not they made the decision to send troops. You don\'t back out when S**t hits the fan. what signal are you giving the terrorists? A lot of you already know where i stand with the war..but once the u.s. entered iraq i felt..and still feel the u.s. have to stay until things are under control.

Originally posted by fastson
Thats nice.. But it does not say anything about them sterilizing to keep the population down and to preserve the welfare system?
Other than that, nothing new under the sun.. It has been known for years, and these news must be pretty old? Carl Bildt retired in 1999 from the party.

"The figure is for those working at any one time and represents the entire population, but I will get you a reference."

I have already checked the figures from SCB and you are way off..

http://www.scb.se/templates/tableOrChart____23314.asp

Looky here...

http://www.nek.uu.se/Pdf/2002wp1.pdf

and yours is all in Swedish does that include seasonal workers?

As far as Sterilization goes this is from the Washington Post:

From the Washington Post:

"From 1934 to 1974, 62,000 Swedes were sterilized as part of a national program grounded in the science of racial biology and carried out by officials who believed they were helping to build a progressive, enlightened welfare state...In some cases, couples judged to be inferior parents were sterilized, as were their children when they became teenagers."

Is it also true that Child Welfare in Sweden can take children away from their parents at will?  Apparently Sweden has lost several cases in the European Court of Human Rights.

http://www.nkmr.org