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Author Topic: Bombs kill 173 in Spain  (Read 5083 times)

Offline fastson
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« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2004, 01:09:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Looky here...

http://www.nek.uu.se/Pdf/2002wp1.pdf

and yours is all in Swedish does that include seasonal workers?


It includes everyone that works. As you can see the percentage of the population that works now, aged 16-64 is 73.6%.

Thats a long ass document, would you mind quoting or saying what page that 17% figure is given?

Do you think that if only 17% of the population works, we could afford healthcare, schools etc. etc.? ;) We might be good, but not gods :p

http://www.ccsd.ca/pubs/2002/olympic/indicators.htm ;)

Quote
"From 1934 to 1974, 62,000 Swedes were sterilized as part of a national program grounded in the science of racial biology and carried out by officials who believed they were helping to build a progressive, enlightened welfare state...In some cases, couples judged to be inferior parents were sterilized, as were their children when they became teenagers.



I searched and found nothing about it in Swedish, may I have the address, I\'d like to read more on it.

Quote
Is it also true that Child Welfare in Sweden can take children away from their parents at will?  Apparently Sweden has lost several cases in the European Court of Human Rights.


You mean the social services? If the child is mistreated, like if the parents are drunks, drug users, then yes the children will be taken away.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 01:12:08 PM by fastson »
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2004, 01:20:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fastson



You mean the social services? If the child is mistreated, like if the parents are drunks, drug users, then yes the children will be taken away.


The Civil Servants are pretty much immune from prosecution under current Swedish law correct?  I guess that is why social services can get away with taking someones child away on a whim, which can only be challenged after the fact.

Some 15,000 children were subject to care orders in 2002, 4,300 under these particularly heinous circumstance.  This is 4 times the number of those in the UK.

My source on the one above is a Swedish Civil Servant who worked for the Employment Department.

More on the sterilization:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman33.html

It quotes the article from the August 29, 1997 issue of the Washington Post.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline fastson
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« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2004, 01:47:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
The Civil Servants are pretty much immune from prosecution under current Swedish law correct?  I guess that is why social services can get away with taking someones child away on a whim, which can only be challenged after the fact.


I dont know, I doubt it.
Believe me, they only get involved if absolutely necessary. And they do not always take the child away, there are other options also.

Quote
More on the sterilization:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman33.html

It quotes the article from the August 29, 1997 issue of the Washington Post.


That was a nice read, right-wing "skit" in short.. I like his request to leave the socialistic ideas behind. ;)
No, I ask for more serious sources, his site is like http://www.socialism.nu but the other way around.
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2004, 01:54:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fastson
I dont know, I doubt it.
Believe me, they only get involved if absolutely necessary. And they do not always take the child away, there are other options also.

 

That was a nice read, right-wing "skit" in short.. I like his request to leave the socialistic ideas behind. ;)
No, I ask for more serious sources, his site is like http://www.socialism.nu but the other way around.


The link regarding the social services issues is fact - look at the cases and see how many are against Sweden.

http://www.nkmr.org - do you dispute what this website says?

Not that the US isn\'t in there as well, but Sweden is not the enlightened nation it likes to sometimes portray itself as being.

The second link was for the Washington Post Article which is quoted in that link.  That is the only link to the original article I could find on short notice as the article is from 1997 - I didn\'t even read the rest of it.  Sorry if the truth hurts.  

;)
« Last Edit: March 15, 2004, 02:02:47 PM by GigaShadow »
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline fastson
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« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2004, 02:07:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
The link regarding the social services issues is fact - look at the cases and see how many are against Sweden.


I never questioned it, and not very shocking that the most cases are against Sweden, the organistaion only covers the Nordic area, and we\'re the biggest country.


Quote
The second link was for the Washington Post Article which is quoted in that link.  That is the only link to the original article I could find on short notice as the article is from 1997 - I didn\'t even read the rest of it.  Sorry if the truth hurts.  

;)


The one about sterilizing for welfare? Well I doubt it very much as that is the only source I have ever seen where that has been stated. The first link you gave me didnt even mention it, since it should be an important part of the whole sterilization deal and not being mentioned anywhere else I see it as pretty unbelievable.

So kids, what good has come out of this discussion?
#1: My post count has gone up.
#2: GigaShadow has learned something :D ;)
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2004, 02:50:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fastson
The first link you gave me didnt even mention it, since it should be an important part of the whole sterilization deal and not being mentioned anywhere else I see it as pretty unbelievable.

So kids, what good has come out of this discussion?
#1: My post count has gone up.
#2: GigaShadow has learned something :D ;)


I suppose your English skills aren\'t quite what I thought they were.  Those are two seperate links.  The last one quoted the Washington Post which quotes sterilization.  :rolleyes:

Also how can you say that is not surprising - that is quite Third Reich like of Sweden don\'t you think?
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline fastson
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« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2004, 03:04:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
I suppose your English skills aren\'t quite what I thought they were.  Those are two seperate links.  The last one quoted the Washington Post which quotes sterilization.  :rolleyes:


Yes I understand that.

Now when I read the quote again it does not say anything new.
"who believed they were helping to build a progressive, enlightened welfare state..."

They though they were "contributing" to society, they did not do it for the welfare system, or because of it.

Quote
Also how can you say that is not surprising - that is quite Third Reich like of Sweden don\'t you think?


What do you mean? Sterilization is of course shocking, but it happened a long time ago, and it has been done in countless of countries.. It does not have a direct link to socialism so I don’t know why its even in this debate. Same with lobotomi.
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Offline Ashford
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« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2004, 03:34:19 PM »
How about them masseuses?
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline fastson
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« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2004, 03:42:13 PM »
Better then a heart clogging big mac, thats for sure. ;)
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Offline Ashford
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« Reply #69 on: March 15, 2004, 07:23:29 PM »
Okay...

So, can someone elaborate more on the different types of governments?

Commies and others?
July 2002: If you had bought $1000.00 worth of Nortel stock one year ago, it would now be worth $49.00. Enron, $16.50 left. Worldcom, $5.00 left. If you had bought $1,000.00 worth of Budweiser beer one year ago, drank it all and turned in the cans for the 10 cent deposit, you would have $214.00. Based on the above, my current investment advice is to drink heavily and recycle.

Offline fastson
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« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2004, 02:47:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Ashford
Okay...

So, can someone elaborate more on the different types of governments?

Commies and others?


Well this is sort of funny. ;)


Socialism -- If you have 2 cows, you give one to your neighbor.

Communism -- If you have 2 cows, you give them to the government; and the government gives you some milk.

Fascism -- If you have 2 cows, you keep the cows but give the milk to the government, who then sells you the milk at a high price.

Nazism -- If you have 2 cows, the government shoots you and keeps the cows.

New Dealism -- (FDR Version) If you have 2 cows, you shoot one, milk the other one; then pour the milk down the drain.

Capitalism -- (Reaganomics) If you have 2 cows, you sell one and buy a bull; you then sell all the excess milk to the government who in turn ships it to fascist and communist governments.

Anarchism -- If you have 2 cows, your neighbor on your left takes one cow, and the one on the right takes the other; while your backyard neighbor takes the milk, the bucket and the stool.

Utopianism -- If you have 2 cows, Mother Nature zaps the cows, turning their udders into eternal milk-shake dispensers.

Pure Socialism -- You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else\'s cows. You have to take care of all the cows.The government gives you as much milk as you need.

Bureaucratic Socialism -- You have two cows. The government takes them and puts them in a barn with everyone else\'s cows. They are cared for by ex-chicken farmers. You have to take care of the chickens the government took from the chicken farmers. The government gives you as much milk and eggs as the regulations say you should need.

Pure Communism -- You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk.

Russian Communism -- You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk.

Cambodian Communism -- You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you.

Dictatorship -- You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you.

Pure Democracy -- You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk.

Representative Democracy -- You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk.

Bureaucracy -- You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. Then it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows.

Pure Anarchy -- You have two cows. Either you sell the milk at a fair price or your neighbors try to take the cows and kill you.

Surrealism -- You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

Programmers-Trying-to-Meet-Year-2000-Deadline -- You have two cows. You keep them both, force them to produce the milk of four cows, then act surprised when they drop dead.


If you want to read more there is always the splendid Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2004, 05:21:00 AM »
See in socialist countries you are hated if you become rich through working.  Its ok if you win the lottery though. ;)
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline fastson
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« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2004, 07:36:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
See in socialist countries you are hated if you become rich through working.  Its ok if you win the lottery though. ;)


Is that a fact? I didnt know you lived in a socialistic country. ;)
I dont hate the rich people I know, I do dislike brats though :)

If someone here hates the rich, its probably because they believe in the Jantelag. ;) (Jantelag = Jante law = A "law" made up by the Danish/Norwegian author Aksel Sandemose.)

http://www.danishcanadiancc.org/jantelaw.html

Btw, Giga.. Have you ever been in Europe?
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Offline GigaShadow
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« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2004, 07:43:24 AM »
Lived in Europe for 4 years and yes I have been to quasi socialist countries.
\"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.\"  - Churchill
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Offline fastson
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« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2004, 08:08:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GigaShadow
Lived in Europe for 4 years and yes I have been to quasi socialist countries.


Where in Europe? Germany? France (:p )?

Are you angry because they did not grant you the social benifits? ;)
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