Bombs kill 173 in Spain

I lived in Germany - but I must say the worst country other than France in Northern Europe is the Netherlands.  There was some guy I knew there who was in his early 20\'s and collecting disability.  The joke was he went to heavy metal concerts regularly and I couldn\'t see anything physically wrong with him.  He could go party, but he couldn\'t work...  yeah ok.  So basically this guy was going to slack his entire life while the government picked up the tab.

Another thing that bothered me about the Netherlands was their misconceptions about history.  A lot of them believe that Canadians liberated Holland by themselves.  Why do they think this way?  The textbooks don\'t give the Americans credit for anything regarding the Dutch and WW2.  In addition he pointed out that there was a Canadian military graveyard across the street from where he lived to back up this claim.  I tried to explain to him that the liberation of Holland was a joint venture - British, American and Canadian, but he would have no part of it.

Do socialists also subscribe to revisionist views on history?  The reason I ask is because you haven\'t acknowledged that the forced sterilization in Sweden was due to the Swedish trying to create a balanced welfare state.  The Washington Post is valid source, yet you deny that it had anything to do with welfare and the structure of Swedish society.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
I lived in Germany - but I must say the worst country other than France in Northern Europe is the Netherlands.  There was some guy I knew there who was in his early 20\'s and collecting disability.  The joke was he went to heavy metal concerts regularly and I couldn\'t see anything physically wrong with him.  He could go party, but he couldn\'t work...  yeah ok.  So basically this guy was going to slack his entire life while the government picked up the tab.

Ok, well there are people like that everywhere, when I lived in the US I met a person like that, a drunk living on welfare (her kid was in my brothers class, she even came to school drunk several times), I reckon she was pretty capable of working.

I don’t know how it is in the Nederland’s, but here if you need welfare support they will be on you like a wolf to try and get you back to work as soon as possible.

Do socialists also subscribe to revisionist views on history?  The reason I ask is because you haven\'t acknowledged that the forced sterilization in Sweden was due to the Swedish trying to create a balanced welfare state.  The Washington Post is valid source, yet you deny that it had anything to do with welfare and the structure of Swedish society.

Revisionist, you mean like people who say the holocaust did not take place? Godness no, they do everything to remind us of what happened both in Germany and Soviet Union.. You can get a free book "Om detta må ni berätta" which is about the holocaust, I hope they will make a similar one about Stalin’s Soviet. They also had a Jewish man who was a prisoner in Auschwitz come to our school, he was one of the translators who took part in the Nuremberg trail, he lives here now and has written several books.

On the sterilization thing, I acknowledge it happened, its a well known fact that it was done to people with not wanted "racial" differences such as mental retards etc. I do however not trust where it says that it was done for keeping a balanced welfare system. If you read the quote they say they did not directly do it because of the welfare system, they though they were contributing to the system. Also, there has been studies made on the matter, and none of them brings up anything about it being done for welfare.

Read the quote again.. what does it say?

"who believed they were helping to build a progressive, enlightened welfare state"

They believed, they thought.. Its very much iffy.

#1: The quote says they thought, believed.
#2: It is the only source that "tries" to state something like it.
#3: The website it comes off seems to have an agenda. :cool:
#4: Do not trust everything you read on the internet, even if he states it comes from a newspaper it CAN be made up (note: CAN be, Im not saying it is).

As I said before, I dont know why it was brought up, it happened a long time ago and the people know it happened, there have been countless of documentaries on the matter which have been aired on television.
If you want to bring up the past there are several other issues we are not so proud about, but of course they are not related to the social democrats, so you might not be interested.
Perhaps the 12 page American history book can reveal some “not so proud” moments?

Originally posted by fastson
Perhaps the 12 page American history book can reveal some “not so proud” moments?

Where would the fun in that be?  Everyone knows about America\'s questionable past... nothing new there.  I just find it interesting that other countries have their own skeletons in the closet so to speak, but are more than happy to point out all the flaws in US history.  I just used Sweden as an example because you were from Sweden - I personally don\'t have anything against Sweden or any of the nordic countries.

Back to the subject though... yes its been 24 hours since we last talked about it

I think Spain made a serious error by electing a candidate that endorses pulling out of Iraq - regardless of whether it was popular or unpopular.  After the bombings, I would think a country would be defiant rather than give in to what Bin Laden and friends want.  To me it doesn\'t make sense and is a sign of weakness.  It also sends a message to terrorists that they can acheive their goals through terror.

Originally posted by GigaShadow
I just find it interesting that other countries have their own skeletons in the closet so to speak, but are more than happy to point out all the flaws in US history.  .

I think (and hope!) everyone knows that all countries have done something not-so-good in the past.
I can agree that the US sometimes gets too much flak from some people.

It also sends a message to terrorists that they can acheive their goals through terror.

Do you think that your government never should negotiate with terrorists? Even if they helled 100 of your countrymen as prisoners and threatened to kill them?

Isreal made a deal with (hamas? or was it some terror group from Libya?) to release XX-prisoners in exchange for the bodies from some of their soldiers and one (I think) alive soldier.

No I don\'t think terrorists should be negotiated with.

Interesting article on how terrorism won in Spain...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114289,00.html

It was Hezbollah Israel negotiated with...

[Kurt Angle]

Just to get back on topic slightly it seems the spanish authorities are after six morrocan men in connection with the bombings. One is in custody, the other five are still at large.

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3515138.stm

[SirMystiq]

I didn\'t really bother to read everysingle word around here but I did come across one of the most ignorant and stupid comments ever made it went something like "anything the terrorist do benefits the anti-bush..."blah blah blah....Wow, pretty gay.

I think Spain is doing the right thing. They are protecting their own ass which is what GWB did with Iraq in the first place. Are they being cowardly and getting the hell out? Yes. Did the terrorist win? Yes. But are they going to keep on putting out their neck for more terrorist attacks in their country. Doesn\'t seem like it.

I also read that most Spaniards didn\'t agree with the war in the first place. Did the Government pay for it? Yes. Just like Blair is paying for his.

To me the Spaniards have finally realized that backing the Iraq war was not a good choice. What good did it bring? Don\'t give me the whole "Saddam WAS the nuclear weapon" bullshit b/c we all know he had nothing. Osama is still out and about and being the ORIGINAL terrorist who started all the shit it\'s pretty lame that he is even alive. GWB left his little wrath on Afghanistan to pick on Iraq. He rushed it. He probably forgot all about Bin Laden and now Spain pays the price.

If you can read this, you\'re too smart to vote Republican.

So if you were President you would just sit back and let Iraq take over Kuwait, Iran, and whatever the hell else he had planned?  I\'m guessing you wouldn\'t care for his "citizens" that were randomly gassed, just to test out a new chemical.

This is very crazy considering I\'m 50% Spanish and 50% American (White).

[Paul2]

^ Should I crack up?^

Well, why not.

Ashford: Ah yes, thank you.

A peice of news..

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=4&u=/nm/20040317/wl_nm/security_spain_truce_dc

""Because of this decision, the leadership has decided to stop all operations within the Spanish territories... until we know the intentions of the new government that has promised to withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq," the statement said.


"And we repeat this to all the brigades present in European lands: Stop all operations."

Al Qaeda wants truce with Spain? I wonder if its real.

And to make Gigashadow happy, today we made our small effort against the terrorists. SÄPO closed down Hamas website (which glorified suicide bombers and jew hate).

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by fastson


And to make Gigashadow happy, today we made our small effort against the terrorists. SÄPO closed down Hamas website (which glorified suicide bombers and jew hate).

Only now?

Anyway, I have my doubts about the truce. It\'s probably coz the cells in Europe are finding it a bit tough to carry out more bombings. Osama once said that he wanted the Andalucea (sp?) Penninsula back in Islamic power as it was in the early 1400\'s. That penninsula is Spain. All of Spain. They could have spread further until they lost a key victory in France (yes, the French actually did play a key role here ). El Cid pretty much drove the Moors out of Spain and back to North Africa.

And just so you guys know.....Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia and the Philippines have had several terrorist bombings and they have no troops at all in Iraq or Afghanistan. Do you really think they care whether Spain, a former Islamic territory, has troops or not in Iraq?

Originally posted by SirMystiq
I didn\'t really bother to read everysingle word around here but I did come across one of the most ignorant and stupid comments ever made it went something like "anything the terrorist do benefits the anti-bush..."blah blah blah....Wow, pretty gay.

I think Spain is doing the right thing. They are protecting their own ass which is what GWB did with Iraq in the first place. Are they being cowardly and getting the hell out? Yes. Did the terrorist win? Yes. But are they going to keep on putting out their neck for more terrorist attacks in their country. Doesn\'t seem like it.

I also read that most Spaniards didn\'t agree with the war in the first place. Did the Government pay for it? Yes. Just like Blair is paying for his.

To me the Spaniards have finally realized that backing the Iraq war was not a good choice. What good did it bring? Don\'t give me the whole "Saddam WAS the nuclear weapon" bullshit b/c we all know he had nothing. Osama is still out and about and being the ORIGINAL terrorist who started all the shit it\'s pretty lame that he is even alive. GWB left his little wrath on Afghanistan to pick on Iraq. He rushed it. He probably forgot all about Bin Laden and now Spain pays the price.

If you can read this, you\'re too smart to vote Republican.

You sir, are an idiot.  This world doesn\'t need appeasers and those that back them.  Obviously you don\'t read enough about history to understand that by appeasing a group or country you only open up the door to more concessions.  Like I said, it is good to be a Muslim in Spain... a few more bombs and the decendants of the Moor\'s will be invited back into Spain with that line of thinking.

The best way I heard it put is Spain has surrendered in the War on Terrorism.  200 casualties and they are waiving the white flag. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by GmanJoe
Only now?
 

Yes, only now.. Telia (the host/ISP, the same one I have) was not aware of the website.
The dude who uploaded it is living in Stockholm, they might get him on agitation against an ethnic group charges.

EDIT: And now the website has emerged again on a Russian webserver. The guy who uploaded it in stockholm was just renting the space, the people behind the website are students from Lebanon (according to him.)