Schiavo Case

 The sad tale of Terri Schiavo, minus the three ring circus

3/25/2005 3:47:50 PM, by Jonathan Gitlin

In the proud tradition of Ars, we\'d like to encourage some intelligent discussion on this matter by trying to do what so many in the media have failed to do, which is actually talk about the case, rather than the circus surrounding it. Now, this case clearly raises several important issues regarding the separation of powers and the relationship between not only the federal and state governments, but also the judiciary. Such are the symptoms of a complex conflict involving technological advances, the nature of scientific knowledge, and the very definition of life.

Unless you\'ve been in a persistent vegetative state for the last two weeks, you cannot have escaped the furor surrounding the case of Terri Schaivo. To recap, 15 years ago Terri Schaivo suffered a heart attack caused by an eating disorder. This deprived her brain of oxygen for about 14 minutes, which caused significant brain damage. Of the different cells that make up our bodies, neurons are particularly sensitive to hypoxia, and will rapidly die off. They are also notorious for their inability to regrow. Following this event, Mrs Schiavo fell into a persistent vegetative state:

    A persistent vegetative state (commonly, but incorrectly, referred to as "brain-death") sometimes follows a coma. Individuals in such a state have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands. For more, see: http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/coma/coma.htm

Over the next few years, her husband pursued aggressive treatments to try and help his wife recover, including an experimental treatment involving the implantation of electrodes in her brain to stimulate neuronal growth. Despite these treatments, there has never been any improvement in her condition and she remains unaware, non-sentient and dependent on a feeding tube. Her husband, Michael Schaivo was close to the Schindlers, her parents, to the point where they encouraged him to begin dating, and they lived in the same house for several years.


CAT scan of a normal brain


CAT scan of Mrs. Schiavo\'s brain

The controversy begins in 1998. Once he realized there was no hope of a recovery, Mr Schaivo petitioned the Florida courts to remove her feeding tube, claiming that Terri would not have wanted to be kept alive in a PVS. Although her parents protested this, the court found in favor of Terri\'s wishes, and so began several years of legal battles, all of which were decided in favor of Terri Schaivo\'s right to withdraw treatment. Her parents have presented arguments to the court claiming spousal abuse, false diagnosis and that Terri\'s wishes had been misinterpreted. Each time, the courts in Florida have rejected these claims as lacking credibility, but backed by religious conservative right-to-life campaigners, the Schindlers have kept appealing.

In 2003, having been turned down repeatedly by the courts, the Schindlers successfully lobbied Gov. Jeb Bush to pass "Terri\'s Law" that would restore her feeding tube. Terri was hospitalized and the tube was replaced. The matter went back to the courts yet again, where once more the Schindler\'s claims were found to be without merit. Furthermore, "Terri\'s Law" was struck down by the Florida Supreme Court as unconstitutional, and eventually March 18th 2005 was set as the date the feeding tube would be removed. Repeated appeals by the Schindlers failed, and on Friday 18th March the feeding tube was removed. As you likely know, congressional Republicans decided to intervene. Embattled House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) engineered special legislation over the weekend, despite Congress being in recess for Easter, that gave the Schindlers standing to bring the case before a Federal Judge. Prior to this, the federal courts had refused to hear the case, citing lack of jurisdiction. President Bush cut short one of his holidays in Texas to fly back to Washington to sign the legislation into law, citing the importance of a ‘culture of life.\' Critics quickly noted that Bush passed legislation in Texas in 1999 that allows hospitals to withdraw treatment from patients despite family wishes in cases where there is no hope for recovery.

From here the case moved through the federal court system, to the Eleventh Circuit court of appeal, where the Schindler\'s appeals were denied due to no substantial likelihood of success. In-depth details of the legal cases can be found here. Despite the claims of Terri\'s parents and her supporters on the religious right, each examination has shown that she is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery. Comparing a 1996 CT scan of her brain to a normal brain, it is possible to see the atrophied areas throughout the cerebral cortex (above and to the sides of the large ventricles in the centre). Although there have been calls for an MRI scan, MRIs use powerful magnets for imaging and would cause the implanted electrodes to act as a blender inside her skull.

With no higher brain function, Terri Schiavo exists in a form of limbo - able to breath uninterrupted, her eyes move and she vocalizes. According to physicians who have actually diagnosed her in person, she displays no awareness of her surroundings, is unable to swallow, and any consciousness or personality died in 1990. Campaigners to reinsert the feeding tube have claimed that she has been misdiagnosed, on the basis of 4 minutes of edited footage, allegedly showing responsiveness. They have also claimed that Michael Schaivo is only concerned with benefiting financially from Terri\'s death, although it must be noted that there is little money left from a malpractice settlement, he has repeatedly turned down offers of large amounts of money to walk away, and unlike the Schindlers, he has not signed any book or TV deals. Some claim that medical advances could repair her brain damage, although the irony of these claims from such vehement critics of stem cell research are not lost on your correspondent. Despite questionable medical diagnoses from afar, in reality there is no hope of any recovery in this case. Public opinion overwhelmingly rests with Michael and Terri Schiavo, although there is some distaste over simply withdrawing her feeding tube and allowing her to die from dehydration. But as euthanasia remains illegal in the US, there is no other option.

The blogosphere has been on fire over this issue, with increasingly shrill calls from commentators decrying the judiciary and Michael Schaivo. Others castigate the Republicans as false champions of states rights and limited federal government, since they were so quick to try and overrule Florida\'s courts.

Barring Terri Schiavo having a secret Living Will somewhere, what do you think is the appropriate solution to this matter, and what should society take away from what may be the first of many such challenges in the future?

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050325-4737.html

idiots = PWN3D.

[videoholic]

Looks like you made things a bit wuiet around here nonamer.  

nonamer and so many others just don\'t get it.

Originally posted by Ace
nonamer and so many others just don\'t get it.

I have to agree.

BTW what is arstechnica?  It won\'t even display for me.  

But with quotes like this only an idiot would link it and then claim "idiots=pwn3d" :rolleyes: :

Despite questionable medical diagnoses from afar, in reality there is no hope of any recovery in this case. Public opinion overwhelmingly rests with Michael and Terri Schiavo, although there is some distaste over simply withdrawing her feeding tube and allowing her to die from dehydration. But as euthanasia remains illegal in the US, there is no other option.

This is euthanasia - plain and simple.

Vid, the only reason it is quiet in here is because there is nothing more to say on the issue.  The appeals are finished, the courts have decided - its over.

Link worked for me.  arstechnica.com is a well known site.

Oh no wonder - its a PC enthusiasts site.  No problem with the article for what it is - a post on a PC enthusiasts site.  

Problem with linking it as some sort of factual article that proves its points beyond a shadow of a doubt as was the nonamer\'s intent.  It raises good points, but as this case has proven there is a lot of gray area we the public aren\'t priviledged to.

After reading the discussions there it seems 2 out every 3 posters appear have an MD and knows for a fact this woman is feeling no pain due to their glancing at the catscan images. :rolleyes:

Anyway, as I have said before - most people are getting it wrong.  The real issue here is Michael Shiavo being the guardian when he obviously has a conflict of interest in this.  No one here who supports the tube being removed has answered my question - why not let the family be the guardian?  Now they are having to sue to get a proper funeral for her?

I don\'t think it is obvious that Michael Schiavo has a conflict of interest in being the legal guardian.

One aspect you haven\'t mentioned Giga is that perhaps Terri Schiavo really did express a desire to not be kept living as a vegetable.  In that case, I consider it important to respect her wishes and permit her to die.  Some people consider that kind of existence the worst hell imaginable.  It\'s not just a question of keeping the parents happy by granting them guardianship and letting them pay for it.  There\'s also an issue of freewill.  She\'s not just a slab of meat, she is a human being who once chose her own fate.  I think that is what Michael Schiavo has been fighting for against considerable opposition for many years.

Then explain this statement:

The full exchange featuring Schiavo\'s contradiction went like this:

KING: Michael, what do you expect to happen? Congress is in recess now, they have to come back into special session. The Supreme Court could put a stay on it. What do you think is going to happen?

SCHIAVO: I don\'t think the Supreme Court is going to put a stay on it. And I hope and implore that everybody call their legislators. They have to stay out of people\'s personal lives. There\'s no place for government. Call them and tell them.

KING: Have you had any contact with the family today? This is a sad day all the way around, Michael. We know of your dispute.

SCHIAVO: I\'ve had no contact with them.

KING: No contact at all?

SCHIAVO: No.

KING: Do you understand how they feel?

SCHIAVO: Yes, I do. But this is not about them, it\'s about Terri. And I\'ve also said that in court. We didn\'t know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want.

KING: You\'re not – it didn\'t cost you anything. This is not something where you\'re looking to save money?

SCHIAVO: No. There\'s no money involved. We need to move on from that question. That question has been asked me 50 million times. There is no money! ("Larry King Live," March 18)

He contradicted himself on national TV.  Something is terribly wrong with this case - maybe its the judge, maybe its the Schindler\'s team of lawyers - I don\'t know.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0503/18/lkl.01.html

I have to tell you honestly and sincerely that I don\'t think those few words prove anything.  In other parts of the interview Michael Schiavo mentioned several times that he was supporting Terri\'s choice in the matter.  Schiavo could have been referring to something else when he said "we didn\'t know what Terri wanted."  Why did he put it in past tense?  I think the context of the statement is not fully available to us.

Earlier in the interview his attorney said this:

KING: Hold it Michael -- on hearsay, George, thought, the only word that she said that is Michael\'s, right, George?

FELOS: No. That\'s not correct. Because she made those statements to her best friend, Joan and also to her brother-in-law. There were three witnesses and numerous statements to those witnesses over different periods of time. I don\'t want to be kept alive artificially. No tubes for me. I want to go when my time comes. If I ever had to be dependent upon anyone, I wouldn\'t want to live that way.

"We didn\'t know what Terri wanted" in the past tense is correct, until he decided what she wanted.

Once again he flipped the story - first it was Terri told him, now it is her best friend Joan, etc... sorry Core - there are way too many inconsistances here.  

As for the argument she is in no pain - it is being reported she is now bleeding from the eyes and the mouth.  Yeah this is real humane.  Where are the numerous people who stated this would not be gruesome?

Originally posted by GigaShadow
This is euthanasia - plain and simple.

I don\'t know. I just can\'t equate giving someone a pill/injection to kill them with NOT giving any treatment.

If that were the case then people who couldn\'t afford life saving procedures would be victims of euthanasia.

[videoholic]

BS, you got some nips showing?  Or is that just wishful thining....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&ncid=2074&e=1&u=/ap/20050328/ap_on_go_co/brain_damaged_woman_delay

Tom DeLay\'s dad was injured in an accident in 1988, reduced to a vegetative state, and it only took the Texas Republican one month to pull the plug on his own father.  The only difference between this case and Terri Schiavo:  DeLay\'s mother "agrees with her son that Schiavo might have a chance of recovering if her feeding tube were reinserted."  Whereas doctors advised the DeLays in 1988 that their patriarch would "basically be a vegetable."  Isn\'t that what the doctors told Terri Schiavo\'s parents?  When did DeLay change his mind about euthanasia?  Apparently sometime before he said "This is a critical issue for people in this position, and it is also a critical issue to fight that fight for life, whether it be euthanasia or abortion."  http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1040968,00.html

Tom DeLay is such a worthless two-faced weasel.  He has no interest in the ethical questions of this case, or the rights of Schiavo\'s family, be it the next-of-kin, or the parents.  He\'s only in it for political gain, and even that is going to bite him in the ass when this story about his father gets around.

Core take off your liberal blinders - these are two totally seperate cases with entirely different circumstances.  DeLay\'s father was on a ventalator and a kidney dialysis machine along with a feeding tube - all keeping him alive.  Terri was breathing on her own - you and the liberal MSM are trying to make this into the same case which it isn\'t.  This story has been around for a week - and no matter what George Soros and the other liberal scum try and do by manipulating the media - this won\'t come back and "bite him and the ass".  

By this reasoning anyone who can\'t feed themselves should be euthanized - Christopher Reeve would have fallen into that category.  Rights of the Schiavo family?  You mean Michael?  :rolleyes:  

I wouldn\'t want to be this man.  The same nuts that blow up abortion clinics probably wouldn\'t hesitate in taking his POS ass out.  Why do I say this?  There are no winners in this situation.  No happy endings for anyone.  The politicians who stood up for putting the tube back in are taking heat from strict Constitutionalists.  The ones who want to keep it out are looking like uncaring pro death zealots.  The right to lifers out protesting look like a bunch of freaks, the Schindlers are losing their daughter and Michael Schiavo looks like an evil scumbag.

[videoholic]

I along with every other republican I know in this area (Where we\'ve had the story for 8 years) agrees that what Delay has done is emberassing.  The press conferences the weekend before last when they did all that legislative bull crap were so ridiculous.  Politicians are just giving the proverbial screw you to every single doctor who has treated her.  Delay has seen a video tape where her eyes move.  Holy shit, she must want to live.  I mean, she after all goes "wuh wuh girple girple."  Why wouldn\'t she want to live?

Thank the lord for republicans!!!  Oh wait, I\'m a republican.  I guess the difference is that my head doesn\'t have shit on it from being up my own ass.