Separation of Church and State

Really and what did you learn from your visits? That the battle was bad? What historical knowledge did you get from visiting the landmark that you can\'t get from a book?

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by GigaShadow
Or Normandy - I have walked both and there is no comparison when it comes to just reading about something or actually visiting it as well.

I have been to Verdun as well - of course no one thinks about WWI that much, but after seeing that place and how the earth still bares the scars of that battle is amazing almost 100 years later.  The bunkers, spent rusted casings which can still be found litter the ground, rusted barbed wire, and even remains can be found.  I remember hearing about a group of boyscouts who brought a live landmine back on their tour bus and the bomb squad having to remove it!    

Visiting historical landmarks and monuments are some of the best and most memorable forms of education one can receive as opposed to just reading about it in a book.  Sitting in a classroom is no substitution for having the opportunity to do both.

Oh I\'m sure books can\'t deliver the sites and smells of the old battle grounds.....but it can\'t always tell you what caused all that destruction and bloodshed to begin with. You see the end result. It\'s true that history buffs should go to the sites they\'ve read about. But you can\'t be just a tourist and know its history from just looking.

[GmanJoe]

I killed this thread.

Originally posted by GmanJoe
I killed this thread.

Not really. In many cases you back up a lot of my statements.

Thanks :thumb:

Originally posted by cloud345
Really and what did you learn from your visits? That the battle was bad? What historical knowledge did you get from visiting the landmark that you can\'t get from a book?

A greater understanding of the event.  A book with pictures desensitizes you for the most part.  

Take Pickett\'s charge for example.  By actually seeing how large and open the field is where he charged Union troops you gain a greater appreciation for the men that participated in it.  

Same goes for Normandy.  Looking down on the beach from the old German bunkers you gain a much better picture of the courage of those men who stormed the beach.

Go visit Dachau and see the camp for yourself - that place will haunt you.  Then you realize they just aren\'t far off places on the pages of books.  I agree books should be read first, but to totally appreciate history such memorials and landmarks give one a greater understanding of the courage and/or tragedies that took place there.  This whole argument is because certain people here believe they aren\'t relevant in today\'s society.  Obviously these people haven\'t traveled much to make such ignorant observations.

Giga, you misunderstand my comments.

Historical monuments should not be changed because they lack modern political relevance, not modern relevance all together. I agree that they have value, just not political value.

Originally posted by Deadly Hamster
Giga, you misunderstand my comments.

 

misunderstand = Misunderstood

oh now we\'re getting snippy

I Pledge Allegiance
To the Flag
Of the United States of America
And to the Republic
For Which it Stands
One Nation
Under Allah
Indivisible
With Liberty
And Justice
For All

Hmm... just wondering how that little modification would actually sound. Before you flame those who oppose the word "God," have your kids say that every single day in school. If you don\'t suffer some kind of pang in your heart, then I will shut up. But you shouldn\'t, after all, if the issue is irrelevant and Allah means the same thing as God.

Allah=Submission to God, same person.

And i will flame people who oppoese the word god because those people are too touchy and want the world to satisfy their every need. Why should they care about a pledge saying one nation under god if they believe in god too. They just thing its a crime that you should be put to death to if you associate politics to religion.


Also canada has the word god in their pledge but i dont hear them complaining. I wonder why :rolleyes:

[Jumpman]

cuz canada>US thats why

[GmanJoe]

Originally posted by Jumpman
cuz canada>US thats why

They wish. Canada is like America\'s refrigerator.

Hay if America were a person she\'d fight right into that fridge.

[SirMystiq]

Originally posted by cloud345
Allah=Submission to God, same person.

And i will flame people who oppoese the word god because those people are too touchy and want the world to satisfy their every need. Why should they care about a pledge saying one nation under god if they believe in god too. They just thing its a crime that you should be put to death to if you associate politics to religion.


Also canada has the word god in their pledge but i dont hear them complaining. I wonder why :rolleyes:

Allah and God ARE NOT THE "same person"

First off, Allah to Muslims can not be given any form or fashion. Allah is "not a person" This way the Muslims keep the purity of their God intact.

Muslims do not believe in the trinity and Allah can only be singular. Therefore, Christian God and Muslim Allah are not the same there either.

Muslims believe that Allah is the PERSONAL NAME of god. God for Christians is just sort of a nickname. Allah is one and only and nothing else can be Allah. So for you to even compare the two by the "=" sign is blasphemy. The word Allah has no gender and it is not plural.

You are insane for even trying to connect "God" to other Gods.

"Why should they care about a pledge saying one nation under god if they believe in god too."
Maybe because their God is not the one that gave up his life to save humanity. Maybe their God has not come. Maybe because their God is not divided into three separate beings?

I don\'t know, could that be it?

The people are not being "touchy" It\'s a matter of beliefs. Saying the word God is nothing of course. But when you are not only subjecting yourself verbally to a nation AND as a bonus to a deity then there is a problem. It is a problem for people that do not believe in the Christian God. It is a problem for people who do not wish to be associated with the Christian God. It is a problem with people that have a religion that punishes them for being submissive, in any way or fashion, to another God!

The words "under God" were nothing but a result from the Communism scare that this country went through. Signed by Eisenhower(sp), merely an attempt to keep the country people happy. The problem with the word is that it implies that America:

That a deity exists. Traditionally, God is viewed as at least omniscient (all knowing) and omnipotent (with infinite powers). Many religions add other attributes, such as all-loving.
 
Maleness: "God" implies a male deity. There is no room in the Pledge for any female deity/deities who are normally called "Goddesses."


Uniqueness: The phrase implies monotheism: that there is only a single deity who one who rules over America.
 
Omnipresent: The phrase implies that God rules over all of America, and is present everywhere.
 
Control: Most Americans probably believe that the phrase indicates a God who interferes with events on earth, guiding the U.S. in the direction that he wishes.


Get it? By using the phrase "under God" the Government is acknowledging the existence of a God, not only that, they are putting this countries faith in the hands of that God. They are not just "words" They are a statement. A statement that pretty much says that this country only identifies with the Christian God.

It is almost as bad as having prayer in school. Of course, I\'m sure it will never happen again, but that again was opposed because of the same reasons.

That is why people are "touchy" about it. Not to whine, not to bother you, it\'s just to make sure that this country\'s freedom of religion foundation is still intact.

[clips]

damn mystiq, i\'m tryin to follow you bro, but honestly..that\'s just too much to read...i think you\'re wrong about allah...i could\'ve sworn that allah and god where the same person in both religions...god for christians is a nickname? i\'m not a bible head at all but i know when i went to church that god wasn\'t a nickname...