Microsoft HD-DVD 360 player and console for $900??

[Titan]

Click Me

Circuit City had the same one for $480 just yesterday.

Hardware will improve as time goes on.  Just so you know, the HD-DVD players have scored higher in consumer reviews than the blu-ray players.  That probably has much more to do with the movie quality rather than the hardware, but...yeah.

You notice Amazon says 700 with a strike out, right? They may be selling them at a discount price but its still retailing for 700.

[Living-In-Clip]

Its surprising that you know about calibration and Avia. Not sure if it requires calibration to see the picture different between DVD and Blu Ray or HD-DVD.

What is surprising? It\'s the first thing I done when I bought my HDTV.
And to address the rest of your post, first off, it goes without saying that a properly calibrated HDTV is going to show the true potenial of the high-def formats, as opposed to a regular tv, right outta the box.  Also, as for "extras being over-rated", yeah, I agree, I never watch them, but that doesn\'t matter to the average consumer. If he see\'s the regular version, with another disc of extra\'s and he see\'s the high-def version with nothing but chapter stops, all for the same price (maybe the high def is even more EXPENSIVE), then what will he buy? The standard DVD.


And as for all this talk , let\'s remember that store tv\'s at Wal-Mart / Best Buy and others are NEVER calibrated properly and will not demostrate the true potenial of the high-def formats.


And HD-DVD\'s can be bought at around $500, according to most websites. Blu-Ray players are more expensive. Are either worth it right now? I truly doubt it. First generation hardware, first generation titles, it\'s all crap right now, some more so than others.

[Paul2]

What is surprising? It\'s the first thing I done when I bought my HDTV.

By surprise, I mean I wouldn\'t expect you to know about proper video calibration, or care about it.  Its a good thing you were interested and care enough to get it calibrated properly, because like you said.  Most average consumers wouldn\'t know or into it enough to care about it.

When I said "not sure if it requires calibration to see the picture different between DVD and Blu Ray or HD-DVD."  I meant that I think you still could see the improvement that High Def sources deliver over DVD, even before calibration.  If an average consumer is watching DVD on an uncalibrated HDTV, and then he switch to Blu Ray and watching it on the same uncalibrated TV.  I still think he would be able to tell the picture quality difference between DVD and Blu Ray.  Depends on how big the screen size is and how close he is sitting to the TV.  Sure, the uncalibrated TV will possibly have black push that crushes all the shadow details, and white brightness level is so high that it blooms and reduce resolution and crushes white level detail.  Red is so oversaturated that it looks like everybody is having a sunburn, and other sharpness enhancements, high frequency filtering, and limiters which reduce picture detail on the TV.  So, when watching DVD movies, he\'s already watching movies on an uncalibrated set, and when he switch to blu ray.  He is still watching on the uncalibrated set, except at higher pixels detail.  I still think he can distinguish those finer detail from high def sources.

Like you mentioned wal-mart, best buy, and other stores.  Their TV are never calibrated, but if they do a side by side picture comparison between DVD and Blu Ray on two uncalibrated HDTVs that are the same size and model.  I still think consumers can still see the difference.  TV sets that are uncalibrated are done on purpose to woos and draws uninform consumers into thinking its better in store.  Like black crush, and flashy white will gives consumers the impression that they are seeing a high contrast, great picture when it\'s actually not true.

But of course, we know better.  And proper calibration will show the tv to their best optimal viewing experience with picture quality that is natural, and accurate.

btw, Blu Ray burners are already coming out from Sony and Panasonic that can burns either single or dual layers Blu Ray discs in 2x speed.  They are somewhat cheaper than Blu Ray player right now.  But are still expensive.  I can imagine later generation blu ray writers having bigger price drop, and faster burning speed.  Same could be said about blu ray medias.

[Evi]

How the f^ck do you "calibrate" an HDTV?

most high end tvs have a technicians calibration mode where you can adjust the hell out of it (but most don\'t know how to access it).

And you can buy these dvds that can help you get your brightness and contrast and all that crap set-up right.  Like a series of gray boxes....

[Titan]

most high end tvs have a technicians calibration mode where you can adjust the hell out of it (but most don\'t know how to access it).

And you can buy these dvds that can help you get your brightness and contrast and all that crap set-up right.  Like a series of gray boxes....

Sounds like a lot of work. I like to take it out of the box and plug and watch.

[Paul2]

what JBean said.

If you are interested, for basic calibration, you need some sort of test patterns to adjust/calibrate your tv.  If you own some DVD Videos that are THX certified, like the DVD Video of "The Incredibles", they have some Audio and Video test patterns in one of those menus...it might be a good start for you to go from there so you won\'t have to spend any money on other tools...

so, once you go into the video test patterns, follow the instruction to adjust the basic:  picture (contrast), brightness, color, tint, and possibly sharpness.  Use your TV remote control to adjust your tv is more preferable.  To me, even to this day, I have trouble adjusting color, tint, and picture (contrast):aka white level.  The easiest adjustment to me is black level or brightness...

My HDTV out of the box have black level so dark that many of the shadow details are lost as black.  So, I use a specific test pattern (from avia calibration disc) to adjust black level.  On this test, I cranked up the brightness (black level) until I can see two vertical very dark gray scrolling bars on the black screen.  The left bar is darker than the right bar.  I have to cranked up the brightness (aka: black level) several ticks for me to be able to see those scrolling dark gray bars..I adjust until the left scrolling bar is nearly invisible into the black screen while the right scrolling bar is somewhat visible...

By doing that, i am optimally adjust black level to its proper place where black is not too dark or too gray so i can see the shadow details of many movies and stuff.  The other basic adjustments (picture: white level, color, tint, sharpness) are trickier and harder for me to adjust...

Of course, for more advanced adjustment, you need to go into the service menu to calibrate...

Like JBean said, you need the code to get into the service menu.  The reason why code is require is because once you are in the service menu, and you don\'t know what you are doing in there, you could ruin your tv and the manufacture will void you warranty.  As for the brand of my tv, i just pushed some combination buttons on the remote control and I enter the service menu on the tv.  In there, I manage to calibrate color temperature, color decoder, turn off sharpness enhancements, unclip, and unfilter both luma and chroma resolutions, and turn off black level limiter, adjust video overscan, etc...

There are other stuffs that I still haven\'t adjust since I don\'t know how or understand what those abbreviation means in the service menu.  Stuffs that I still have trouble adjusting is focus, geometry, and convergence...

I think it\'s better if you play around with the basic calibration on the user menu using a video test pattern than going into the service menu, unless you are an enthusiast or a pro and know what you are doing in there...if you go into the service menu by accident, you can turn the service menu off, on my tv, i turned the service menu off by turning off the tv...

I know that Videoholic can explains better than me since he\'s the one that shows me a website about it years ago...

Sounds like a lot of work. I like to take it out of the box and plug and watch.

Hence the reason why you and millions of others aren\'t seeing what their thousands of dollars worth of equipment can really do. Besides, a basic calibration is easy to do and helps a lot. It doesn\'t even have to cost money. DVDs like Terminator 2 and others have a little "THX calibration" that you can access. For easy and money, it\'s the best you can do. If you want a better tool, you\'ll have to buy a setup DVD (or a technician, which IMO is overkill for 99.99% people).

On a related note - why do so many people insist to turn the color up so high on their sets? Everything looks like a goddamn cartoon. And often blooming and such. I cringe every time I see it.

[Evi]

I\'ll see if I can find a calibration DVD. Just got a 52" plasma, so I might as well get the best of it.

Coror/tint/hue is generally not individually adjustable without going into the service menu if you use digital inputs, so you don\'t have to worry about that.  Just properly setting the brightness/contrast though with any of the simpler video-calibrators (on many disks), will make a huge difference, and be more than enough for almost any non-videophile to notice a gigantic improvement in their HDTV over an SD set.  If you are an enthusiast, you have to take the time to get educated and spend a few hours and some money calibrating your video and sound system (something you will reap the rewards for for much more time than you spend on it), but for everyone else, just properly setting up the bright/contrast is the best thing to do.

Here\'s a site with the basics on calibrating a TV, including those service numbers for anyone feeling adventurous.  Just page down to the index below the books.

So anybody holding off on DVD purchases until this all pans out?

So anybody holding off on DVD purchases until this all pans out?

No, I\'m going to continue buying DVD\'s.  Then when I get my PS3, I\'ll start getting the movies I like in Blu-Ray format while still continuing to get the movies/TV shows I like that aren\'t in that format on DVD.  I\'m not wasting an extra $200 on an add-on for my 360 that will probably fail.

So anybody holding off on DVD purchases until this all pans out?

I am... simply out of pragmatism.

I ended up re-buying a lot of my collection on DVD from VHS, and I do not want to do the same thing with the movies I buy today in a few years.  I think then NEXT format after this wont be able to be worth rebuying movies (unless its holographics or something), so I figure Ill be safe with HD format once a winner emerges.  I just dont want to buy something now that Ill wish I had bought a year later in a better format... and it also keeps me from buying impulse movies.

PS - Sorry, apostrophy key isnt working today.

So anybody holding off on DVD purchases until this all pans out?

Yes.  The last time I bought a DVD was back in December.  I don\'t recall how long it was before that.  I rent now, borrow from friends, or wait to see it on HBO or something.

I\'ll probably start building up a library again when I can buy movies and store them on a hdd, like I do with music now (haven\'t bought a cd since November).

Buy it online once, have access to it forever.  Sounds good to me.  Now we just need hdd\'s big enough to store all of it.

on an HDTV, the difference is very noticeable.
especially on CRT HDTV\'s like mine.

You tried a BR or HD-DVD on your TV?

Personally I doubt it since I already find DVD quality crisp and clear enough I dont find any problem with the image quality or any room of improvement that will make a difference.

Probably on a huge TV screen I might? Well thats something not many have.

But I think DVDs will be replaced nevertheless by one of the new formats