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Author Topic: Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!  (Read 62649 times)

Offline GmanJoe

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #210 on: July 07, 2008, 03:52:54 AM »
I skip the story lines.
\"Gee,  I dunno.  If I was a chick, I\'d probably want a kiss (or more) from Durst, too.\"--SineSwiper 9/23/03 (from another forum)
Originally posted by Seed_Of_Evil I must admit that the last pic of her ass will be used in my next masturbation. She\'s hot as hell, one of my

Offline Eiksirf
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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #211 on: July 07, 2008, 09:33:53 AM »
Quote
I was was a solider.
I killed people, but those people came back to life.
One of them was a twin - who had sex with my mother.
That mother was a clone of my grandmother tho\'.
So now her spirit lives in my evil clones foot..becuase they..you know..had sex.
I have to fight them.
Because the arab people are evil and own weird robots.

I don\'t play MGS games. I tried once but didn\'t like the controls. But from what I\'ve read about the storyline and the characters... it wasn\'t until "evil clones foot" that I realized you were making something up and not summarizing the MGS plotline.

So, from an outsider\'s perspective, you have a convincing point LIC.
\"What are you supposed to be, a clown or something?\"
\"Sometimes.\"
 
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Offline Living-In-Clip

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #212 on: July 07, 2008, 05:59:04 PM »
Quote from: Eiksirf
I don\'t play MGS games. I tried once but didn\'t like the controls. But from what I\'ve read about the storyline and the characters... it wasn\'t until "evil clones foot" that I realized you were making something up and not summarizing the MGS plotline.

So, from an outsider\'s perspective, you have a convincing point LIC.


Well, I wasn\'t really making it up. I mean - a man was cloned and somehow a hand being on another guy makes him evil. I don\'t remember the whole thing. I just know it is plain retarded.

Offline Viper_Fujax

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #213 on: July 07, 2008, 06:29:17 PM »
Quote from: Living-In-Clip
Well, I wasn\'t really making it up. I mean - a man was cloned and somehow a hand being on another guy makes him evil. I don\'t remember the whole thing. I just know it is plain retarded.



half- Spoiler

they explain this in mgs4. not going to explain what just incase you do you\'re wall-e thing
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Offline Paul2

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #214 on: July 07, 2008, 06:33:26 PM »
i wonder if the handjob be the same anymore when someone\'s hand was grafted to his.  handjob and cloning eh? sounds like its possible that they could go hand in hand together...

Offline Bobs_Hardware

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #215 on: July 08, 2008, 01:28:01 AM »
With Unicron\'s new avatar, sometimes I get confused over whose posts I\'m reading.

He and LIC are too similar.

Offline Bobs_Hardware

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« Reply #216 on: July 08, 2008, 01:52:33 AM »
Quote from: Living-In-Clip
I\'m sorry, but a story line does have to make sense. It\'s a friggin\' story. If a story doesn\'t make sense, then anyone could just write a bunch of jibberish.

I was was a solider.
I killed people, but those people came back to life.
One of them was a twin - who had sex with my mother.
That mother was a clone of my grandmother tho\'.
So now her spirit lives in my evil clones foot..becuase they..you know..had sex.
I have to fight them.
Because the arab people are evil and own weird robots.

See? That was a pointless story that made no sense. Much like Kojima\'s self masturbation.


What I love about the post-modern is how deceiving it can be. If you set a ridiculous storyline in a fantasy motif, the story can be accepted en masse. Someone might not like the fantastic nature of the game(s) because it\'s set in a realistic domain. But that\'s kind of the whole point.

This isn\'t a defense of MGS (or Kojima). If you don\'t like his work, you don\'t have to. If you don\'t like that it\'s ridiculous, you don\'t have to.

Videogames are a unique artform in that they can toy with a persons perception, their suspension of disbelief, better than any other artform. That\'s precisely what Kojima does; and he does it masterfully. Unfortunately, the post-modern turns a lot of people off. Something he\'s done masterfully, also. If you want a game steeped in realism to be realistic in every aspect, then obviously you won\'t appreciate MGS. Though, perhaps the original on PSX and MGS3 could be played favourably.

It\'s a shame, I suppose. Kojima\'s grandiloquence and his, yes, avant-guarde perversions have turned many people off the game. People tend to think he was trying to create a masterpiece, and ended up just having this bloviated piece of self-indulgence trying to make an allegorical statement. He was trying to create a masterpiece, but a post-modern masterpiece.

If you don\'t like the story, I hear the gameplay is still fantastic. :)

Offline Living-In-Clip

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #217 on: July 08, 2008, 05:56:09 AM »
No. The gameplay also is broken.

And videogames are not an art form. Far from it. I\'ve yet to play a game that makes me think about something. The closest would be a survival horror and the fear that a good one can instill in the player.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 06:27:17 AM by Living-In-Clip »

Offline GmanJoe

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #218 on: July 08, 2008, 06:43:16 AM »
It\'s one of the best games I\'ve ever played. Only thing missing is the ability to swing from a vine and shoot baddies with my little monkey friends.
\"Gee,  I dunno.  If I was a chick, I\'d probably want a kiss (or more) from Durst, too.\"--SineSwiper 9/23/03 (from another forum)
Originally posted by Seed_Of_Evil I must admit that the last pic of her ass will be used in my next masturbation. She\'s hot as hell, one of my

Offline Viper_Fujax

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #219 on: July 08, 2008, 10:49:24 AM »
i have the controls mastered in my second playthrough and the game is infinitly better

there\'s a few mechanics that are stupid. like if the rebels kill 2 PMC\'s, and i kill one, they see that one and say "someone\'s here" and put people on alert. plus holding people up can be shoddy sometimes...i think the person can\'t be walking for it to work.
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Offline Luke
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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #220 on: July 08, 2008, 10:58:05 AM »
I think video games are an art form.

ART
–noun
1.   the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

Personally, I think almost ANYTHING can be art.
Helloski.

Offline Bobs_Hardware

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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #221 on: July 08, 2008, 03:35:37 PM »
They won\'t necessarily be art in the same way that a painting, or a movie, or a song, or poetry can be. But they are in a unique position of being art in all those ways, and many more. Usually not done to the same standard as what makes those artforms what they are, but to incorporate what makes that forms of art into a videogame is special.. even if it\'s a little trite in a sense.

Making a game that has fun gameplay is an artform. Super Mario Bros would be one of the best examples of videogames as an artform. As well as something like ICO. In their own unique ways.

We shouldn\'t have to discuss what art is. But oh well. :)

Offline Living-In-Clip

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« Reply #222 on: July 08, 2008, 03:43:41 PM »
When you reference ICO - is your point that all video game "art" sucks? Because that is all I can think of when I read the word ICO.....

:)

Offline Knotter8
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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #223 on: July 09, 2008, 12:40:46 PM »
As promised, my MGS4 review - incl. some spoilers, mostly gameplay related


MGS4 : Guns of the Patriots - Better than the sum of it\'s parts.

Gameplay
A snake theory


MGS1 & 2 were vintage \'Line-of-Sight\' stealth games. A very binary affair : either you\'re in sight or you\'re occluded from enemy sights by a wall for example. A twitch reaction control scheme provided
Snake with the ability to dash out of line of sight, supported by an overhead camera system to keep sight of where you\'d be running in case of sudden detection.
MGS3 broke with that tradition by means of a camouflage system ; a controlable variable between seen and unseen, even when the player is within the imaginary line of sight. MGS4 takes this blueprint and runs with it, providing a streamlined camouflage system - the automatic Octocamo suit camouflage system - this time, with a control / camera scheme & moves set which is tailored to sneak in & out of proximity
with slow paced precision.

Previews talked about Gears of War and GRAW influences, but imo that\'s BS. At the core of Snake\'s new control scheme I see hints of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory - but now it\'s Snake\'s theory ;
Big Boss had the \'stalk\'  walking, but MGS4 isn\'t ashamed to implement a full crouch walk similair to SC, including stepless to running speed, plus a Solid Eye system for Night Vision mode.
In a way it\'s a more primitive version of Sam Fisher\'s core moves, minus the "Closer-than-ever" animation system (emphasized moves when closing into enemy proximity), and minus the motion blended animations as seen in contemporary 3rd person games such as Uncharted & Assassin\'s Creed. Yet, coupled with the free cam, the new system is Chaos Theory at base level - and that\'s not a bad thing at all :  plenty of sneaking up on guards from behind then putting them into a choke hold down on the floor with that dense tension of getting caught by their little friends - and if you do get spotted, you can still turn the tide with CQC moves.

Non human enemies : Gekko\'s & Dwarf Gekko\'s. The big Gekko\'s are fun to fool around with, but unfortunately they don\'t pose such an enormous lethal threat as you\'d hope for. The small Dwarf Gekko\'s are a true nuisance though, if you don\'t have any chaff to scramble their sensors.

Furthermore, MGS4 adds diversity & utilitarianist multifuncionality, to that control scheme. Like SC Chaos Theory, there\'s the left side - right side shoulder gun switching and an array of wall & floor hugging moves ; to facilitate the Octocamo system. Two more moves deserve highlights ; the switch from prone on belly to prone on back and the inchworm move. At the tap of the triangle button Snake can switch from lying flat on his belly to flat on his back facing the sky ; very handy in case of a sudden enemy in proximity who hasn\'t yet detected you, instead of running away, which would mean instant alert status in that case. The inchworm move let\'s Snake progress very slowly while maintaining his Octomcamo efficiency.

So, the core moves are like Splinter Cell minus the ultra smooth motion captured animations or blending - but at least they flow well enough into each other and they still provide you with the functionality of twitch precision during boss fights. The only jarring omition is jumping : Snake still cannot jump up and grab a ledge in case enemies are closing in on him.This results in an artificial limitation where he still needs to find waiste high spots to climb up to higher plains out of enemy proximity.

The flow of evasion gameplay would feel alot more natural if Snake could jump up and grab a ledge and pull himself up instead of having to look around for waiste high spots. In a way, Snake\'s inability to jump is MGS4\'s set of \'invisible walls\'.

On top of that base layer control scheme / moves set, there\'s the new Drebin weapons shop system for weapons customizability. This helps Snake on the battefield to meet
his arms requirements in realtime, based upon the situation - No "what you find is what you\'ll use"  Procure on Site procedure anymore, but instead you get to exchange all found weapons for the exact stuff you want.

The Psyche meter is similair to MGS3\'s Stamina meter : the more stress Snake suffers, the less accurate he\'ll be. To replenish the Psyche meter is not as straightforward as replenishing MGS3\'s Stamina meter. Keeping Snake away from extended heated battles, bright spot exposure and age insults, will prevent the psyche meter to deplete too much.

the course of the Snake

The game is devided up into 5 acts. All acts take place in different places with varying circumstances.  Act 1 & 2 offer lots of enemy grabbing sneaking fun, mixed with potential battle participation. Act 2 includes the first boss fight which actually scared me a bit initially. Finally, act 2 ends with a high speed on rails shooting section, and then it finally ends after a quick rumble through a Gekko infused marketplace, dissolving into an ultra slick cutscene.

Act 3 changes pace dramatically, as you get to stalk someone in civilian ambiance, dressed as civilian. Yet, like many other games, there seems to be a curfue in place, resulting in rather desolated evening streets. After boss fight number 3 we get yet another on rails shooting section. Imo, that was really one on too many on rails, because by then, the game doesn\'t feel like a sneaking game anymore.

Enter Act 4 ; a marvelous return to the place where MGS started. Dubbed codec memories while exploring the now desolate Shadow Moses facility really bring back a heavy load of nostalgic emotions. This is where story narration and exploration gameplay mold into one immersive experience in a marvelous way. The downside of act 4 is that it doesn\'t contain any human enemies ; all (dwarf) Gekko\'s ; so, the fantastic CQC element gets thrown out of the window right there. Other than that, act 4 still provides some pretty nice sneaking thrills. Then it brings another boss fight and then the fight versus Vamp ; once you know how to take him down, you realize how ridiculously easy it is to get rid of him and it leaves you wondering how 1 syringe could have made such a huge difference in the MGS2 storyline.

After fending off a horde of kamikaze Gekko\'s you get to control Metal Gear Rex and fight the (anti) Metal Gear Ray. Controls were a bit clunky but i suppose that\'s fitting to such mech battles alike Xbox\' Tekki. The whole battle is integrated perfectly though and it looks and plays great.

Act 5 is the end of the road. It\'s first section does bring back some really nice sneaking action versus the Haven trooper guards and a coupla Gekko\'s. After that, it\'s shooting action, running action and a boss fight....and then it repeats again, but replacing a normal boss fight with a hand to hand fight versus Liquid Ocelot with the about same clunky controls as MGS1\'s fight on top of MG Rex. It does feature some neat quicktime actions though which trigger some really nice moves and Snake also delivers some cool roundhouse kicks. After that, you basically run towards the ending cutscene.

It took me about 23 hours to complete on first playthrough at Solid Normal level and I was awarded the title "Inchworm".

Graphics

MGS4\'s visuals are mostly very very pleasing except for a few let downs : in several indoor sections, Snake\'s character model doesn\'t feature self shadowing at all even when there\'s high contrast shadows to the floor from light through the window blinds or some strong indoor light bulb ;
this makes the Snake character model stick out like a sore thumb and it reminds me of the PS2 era where many PS2 game versions didn\'t feature self shadowing either because of the PS2\'s limited power, compared to Xbox. It also makes him look more \'flat\'  because the effect of normal mapping also fades away in those indoor situations.

The character models, art direction and level design are all top notch stuff and especially act 2\'s mansion and act 4\'s Shadow Moses facility feature some of the slickest shaders I\'ve ever seen.

As I stated earlier, Snake\'s moves and motions are solid enough, but they don\'t come anywhere near modern animation blending in games. Enemy rag doll effects look very nice though and interaction with small objects such as vases and bowls breath more life into the environments.

Storyline plot and message

Snake\'s story draws you in pretty quickly and you get that feeling of urgency and the sad feeling that he doesn\'t have much time left anymore. Until the end of act 5, the cutscenes never felt too long and certainly not boring. Only the very end of the game features some cheezy parts
( The Meryl - Akiba thing and their wedding ) but imo that just shows that Kojima isn\'t taking himself too seriously. Just as you think that MGS2 already fullfilled the moral plotline, the final end of MGS4 delivers the driving force, the moral message of the game to the player and Kojima doesn\'t turn Snake into a romanticised marter.

Conclusion


Even though it took me 23 hours, the game felt a tad short, but i feel there\'s still enough replay value in it because the game is so vast and detailed. Furthermore, you can sense that contemporary Japanese game development is lagging behind the West a bit, but Kojima Productions
still manages to impress, except when it comes to animation blending and (the lack of) self shadowing on character models. But overall, MGS4 is a bit better as a total package than the mere sum of it\'s parts ; a very worthy end to the Solid saga.

I give MGS4 a 9.0 out of 10
All in all it\'s a Master piece for the Sony platform just like Ico although i consider that game truly subliminal.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 12:45:43 PM by Knotter8 »
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Offline Unicron!
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Metal Gear Solid 4: The first review is out!
« Reply #224 on: July 09, 2008, 01:25:34 PM »
Did you post this in another forum?

 

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