The Japanese hate the Xbox!

Originally posted by Chrono
The ps2 is the first console with
1.) Back-Compatiblity
2.) 2 USB ports
3.) Firewire (ILINK)
4.) Truely expandable console, with major plans
5.) DVD playback out of the box.
6.) to play your older games better
7.) modern design
8.) pressure sensative buttons
9.) DVD medium
10.) The first have ethernet/hardrive (sorry, they will be out before your x-box)

WOW! thats ten things
and you only have two
Both of which is not unique and the ps2 will accomplish before the x-box release
so in other words, what is so innovative about the x-box!
NOTHING!

I love how you take nothing, and try to make it into something and include to much bulls*it that it seems like alot.

Greatly put.

People who already has a DVD player might not think that the DVD in PS2 is that hot, however, there\'s a HUGE market out there with people with no DVD player and all the covenience of a top class game console and DVD player is sure the hell attractive to first time DVD buyers.

Furthermore, I can do without another piece of h/w equipment(and cables!!!) in my living room considering that I\'ve other equipments and consoles to hook up to.

This year will sees the beginning of the first wave of titles that\'ll truly take advantage of the PS2 ( GT3, MGS2, the new Naughty Dog game etc). The recent announcement by Climax on their new graphics engine that can do 19 million poly/sec seems to prove the early sentiments of most developers that mentioned "The PS2 will have the biggest jump for a console in each generation of games" seems to be coming true as developers learn to grasp the complexity and weirdness of the PS2.

btw, from what was mentioned by MS, the X-box will undoubtly be much higher priced than the PS2(which will probably have a small price drop when the X-Box is released too).

and oh yes, I pretty much agreed a console will NEVER make it big time without the support of japanese developers.

In the end, it\'s the games that makes the console. I would rather play FF9 in low-res on my trusty old PSX than another me-too Quake game or PC ports on the X-Box with superior graphics anyday.

so in other words, what is so innovative about the x-box!
NOTHING!

That I totally DISAGREE! Look at this!
(1)  A huge X on the top of the console!
(2)  A crossbred SideWinder/Genesis pad that everyone complains!
(3)  Ton & tons of PC ports which I already have on my PC(and will probably be playing on much faster machine by the time X-Box is released)!
(4) Lock away DVD! So cool! Hackers will love it!
(5) Propriatery USB!!(It propriaterly universal - that\'s like saying it\'s a CLOSED OPENED SYSTEM ).
(6) A 32-bit CPU! (Eat dust, 128-bit suckers!)
(7) A yet to be completed graphic chip that noone knows for sure how it\'ll perform!!
(8) Built in hard drive for bug patches which all PC developers dutifully released every week!
(9) Direct X!
(10) Illegal Operation Error!!!

See? It does have it fair share of innovations!

Originally posted by Chrono
The ps2 is the first console with
1.) Back-Compatiblity
2.) 2 USB ports
3.) Firewire (ILINK)
4.) Truely expandable console, with major plans
5.) DVD playback out of the box.
6.) to play your older games better
7.) modern design
8.) pressure sensative buttons
9.) DVD medium
10.) The first have ethernet/hardrive (sorry, they will be out before your x-box)

WOW! thats ten things
and you only have two
Both of which is not unique and the ps2 will accomplish before the x-box release
so in other words, what is so innovative about the x-box!
NOTHING!

I love how you take nothing, and try to make it into something and include to much bulls*it that it seems like alot.

1-Gameboy had backwards compatability first.
2-USB ports do not enhance gameplay.
3-See number 2.
4-So was Genesis and N64. No innovation here.
5-That doesn\'t affect games themselves.
6-The enhancements are minimal.
7-What? WTF does that do for the games? Pull your head out of your ass.
8-Bravo! That\'s one for Sony!
9-While not as innovative as cd\'s were (it\'s just a extention of it), Sony was the first console w/
It. That\'s 2 for Sony.
10-Ethernet...sorry, Sega has you beat. HD? Well, it will be the first (probably) , but being a add-on, it\'ll likely fail. XB including it means the feature will be more successful by default than Sony\'s. So that\'s well, I\'ll give em the point for Sony anyways, they are the first.

That\'s 3, count em, 3 examples of innovation on Sony\'s part.

Microsoft\'s innovation:
1-Read interviews w/ developers. MS has the best creative support team for developers *ever*.
2-Will have broadband and a HD out of the box.
3-The best controller ever. Maybe they stole plenty of seperate ideas to make it, but it is the best controller ever. Innovative? Not too much, but since it\'s the only controller to have everything it does, and it\'ll be the most funtional one ever, it\'s just too good not to give a point to. (Hey, Sony only \'kinda deserved there last \'point\' I gave em)

That\'s 3 to 3....no difference there.

But lets also compare the other 2 systems innovation.

Sega DC:
1-VMU-While not usually utilised, it has the potential to do great things esp. in sports games.
2-Modem. DC has a modem o.o.b. It has a broadband adapter out now. It wins the online innovation hands down.
3-The first 128 bit system. Despite what PS2 fanboys think, this is the first next gen system, and at its launch, was being drooled over by celebrities and the media. It lead the industry in the inevitable direction of generational shift, and, was bringing in new gamers who thought PSX and N64 looked too fake/unrealistic.


Thats all that comes to mind here. So if your counting, its 3-3-3, or if your cynical, and wouldn\'t give credit for the last ones for each, its 2-2-2

Nintendo GC.
1-I\'m thinking, but I can\'t think of anything that would affect gameplay....NGC will be more about breakthrough games, than breakthrough technology that will aid games. Little help with this one? Anyone??


So, leys be conservative, and use the cynics numbers here. Thats 2-2-2-0.

You might be thinking, why does it seem so... well, bad? Surely there\'s more innovation than this! Have you been paying attention? There\'s little innovation so far by any of the 4 companies. Even with the generous optimists numbers, 3-3-3-0, these innovations still pale in comparison with good ol\'creative developers. Nintendo and Sega got the best in that field. Whats the point of my rambling??? I\'ve been sniffing glue, don\'t ask me. But it might be something like this: Stop whining company X is less innovative than company Y, because, in the end, it\'s the games, and the developers that make em, that matter.

EThugg MY GOD!!
I thought that post was by the reverand!
Just read ryu\'s above comments...

I would agree that most of Nintendo\'s innovation comes from their software rather their hardware.
 
  However, innovative or not, they have really thought about whats going into the GCN.

 One 1st for the GCN would be the S3 Compression. Innovative...?

 
 Anyways, I believe that the 64DD was a hard drive...

 

  Also, I find it funny that you already tote the Xbox controller as the best when you most likely have never even held, much less played a game on it. You probably haven\'t even seen it in person. (I could be wrong, of course)




 

"Anyways, I believe that the 64DD was a hard drive... "

It was sorta, it was basically a advanced zip disk..
the medium was way too much money cause the data was store ON the game, and not on one medium

weird.

 I wouldn\'t know too much about the 64DD. (not that i\'d want to anyways!)

 What, about 4 people bought it over in Japan? Something like that??

 ...talk about a flop.

Originally posted by Chrono
EThugg MY GOD!!
I thought that post was by the reverand!
Just read ryu\'s above comments...

Ryu\'s post is too long. Make your own reply pussy. Nothing I said was wrong.

This has been one of the best debates Ive heard in a while.
and Ive been reading here awhile(dont be fooled by october 2000,just never registered.) and it has ::gasp:: stayed mostly civil without many name calling which is cool. Thats just immature. Grown people resorting to insults in a debate, how juvenile.

You ever watch political debate? This is still civil.

I agree it still is civil.
Yes i watch them frequently, Im very much into politics for some sick reason. When Al Gore walked over to George Bush in the third debate and made him stop talking that was hilarious.

I didn\'t even read the whole thread, so don\'t flame me for being off topic, I just have one thing to say: Same old Dockwiz.

1-Gameboy had backwards compatability first.
2-USB ports do not enhance gameplay.
3-See number 2.
4-So was Genesis and N64. No innovation here.
5-That doesn\'t affect games themselves.
6-The enhancements are minimal.
7-What? WTF does that do for the games? Pull your head out of your ass.
8-Bravo! That\'s one for Sony!
9-While not as innovative as cd\'s were (it\'s just a extention of it), Sony was the first console w/
It. That\'s 2 for Sony.
10-Ethernet...sorry, Sega has you beat. HD? Well, it will be the first (probably) , but being a add-on, it\'ll likely fail. XB including it means the feature will be more successful by default than Sony\'s. So that\'s well, I\'ll give em the point for Sony anyways, they are the first.

1-But it can be argued that it is not a console either.  I can say that I play my older games for my old TI-86 on a new TI-90 graphing calculator and consider that backwards compatible, but that\'s not really a console either now is it?

2-Perhaps not, but they do if you want to use a USB mouse and keyboard you already own rather then buying a new set.  It also opens up the field for many different peripherals from many different companies that never were open before, like digital cameras, USB modems, or maybe even those new optical mice.

3-This was mostly for Sony peripherals like their memory stick, but in either case, it does not help in games as far as I know.

4-If by expansion he meant ethernet and HDD, well, it\'s pretty innovative by your standards.  PS2 is getting the HD first and X-Box is getting it second, how does that make it to where PS2 is not innovative for doing it, but X-Box is?  Another contradiction, just like you claiming X-Box gets points for innovation on the ethernet adapter when you say Sega is the first to do it (Today) hands down?  get Altered Feast in here, we got another double standard.

5-True, but it\'s still the first console to ever do it, just like how Sony had the first console in Japan to ever play VCD\'s.

6-Any enhancement, no matter how minimal, is still an enhancement.  Just like Windows Service packs, if you didn\'t have them for 98, you\'d be suseptible to certain hacks and more crashes so the enhancements are good no matter how insignificant.

7-No arguement here

8-At least you and I see eye to eye.  No pun intended.

9-Read number 8.

10-ok.

Looks more like 5 rather then 3 to me.

1-Read interviews w/ developers. MS has the best creative support team for developers *ever*.

Dude, claiming a company has a *Creative support team* does not make it innovative just like how sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

2-Will have broadband and a HD out of the box.

That isn\'t innovative if another console has it available, it\'s just the people who don\'t want it won\'t buy it.  All because it\'s not included out of the box does not mean it doesn\'t have it, just like how the X-Box does DVD and how Sega does the 32X... you pawn off the ethernet adapter out of the box to be innovative, but give credit to sega for the first to have it?  That doesn\'t make any sense.  If anything, Sega gets all the credit for it and you can\'t refute that since you already said they did

3-The best controller ever. Maybe they stole plenty of seperate ideas to make it, but it is the best controller ever. Innovative? Not too much, but since it\'s the only controller to have everything it does, and it\'ll be the most funtional one ever, it\'s just too good not to give a point to. (Hey, Sony only \'kinda deserved there last \'point\' I gave em)

You don\'t get points for innovation when you steal ideas.  Sorry, that\'s just fact.  No one gave credit to sony for being innovative when they doubled up on the N64\'s single analog stick so why should MS get credit for making a rehash?  Answer:  They Dont.

Looks like 5-0 in my book.

2-Modem. DC has a modem o.o.b. It has a broadband adapter out now. It wins the online innovation hands down.

You cant give credit for X-Box on having broadband when you give credit to sega here "hands down" just like I said above.

Thats all that comes to mind here. So if your counting, its 3-3-3, or if your cynical, and wouldn\'t give credit for the last ones for each, its 2-2-2

I count 5-0-3, maybe my math is off?  Maybe yours is?  I\'m not the one who contradicted myself though so my figures look correct.

Nintendo GC.
1-I\'m thinking, but I can\'t think of anything that would affect gameplay....NGC will be more about breakthrough games, than breakthrough technology that will aid games. Little help with this one? Anyone??

So true.  Nintendo does bring more to the table software wise then they ever do hardware wise.

You might be thinking, why does it seem so... well, bad? Surely there\'s more innovation than this! Have you been paying attention? There\'s little innovation so far by any of the 4 companies. Even with the generous optimists numbers, 3-3-3-0, these innovations still pale in comparison with good ol\'creative developers. Nintendo and Sega got the best in that field. Whats the point of my rambling??? I\'ve been sniffing glue, don\'t ask me. But it might be something like this: Stop whining company X is less innovative than company Y, because, in the end, it\'s the games, and the developers that make em, that matter.

Hardware spawns ideas.  If hardware takes a step back, so does the games.  It\'s that simple and why I do not like MS\'s presence in the upcoming console fued.  Hinder an idea because of hardware restraints and the ideas get pushed off the table.  Remember what Hideo Kojima said: "In MGS, there was so many things I wanted to do but never could because the PSX was so limited, but thanks to the PS2\'s great leap in hardware, many of those lost ideas have been realised."

Ryu\'s post is too long. Make your own reply pussy. Nothing I said was wrong.

Heh, you tell him to make his own reply then say mine is too long even though it has all the answers you need.  if things were really that simple, I\'d be sure to give you the downsized cliff note versions, but this is a forum and my ideas may be long winded, but they\'re always educated and thought out which is something I can\'t say when it comes to most of the spam on this forum.  If only people would read most of the stuff on here, they might learn a little something about consoles and games, but sadly, that\'s just not the case as you have demonstrated here.

3-The first 128 bit system. Despite what PS2 fanboys think, this is the first next gen system, and at its launch, was being drooled over by celebrities and the media. It lead the industry in the inevitable direction of generational shift, and, was bringing in new gamers who thought PSX and N64 looked too fake/unrealistic.

Actually, the Hitachi SH4 is pretty much a 64-bit system. If i remember correctly there\'s only about 2 to 4 128-registers in the chip. You\'ve been conned, bud.