We are animals just like every one else on this planet!

Originally posted by Tetrad
Lavan if you dont have a conflict of religion you are bound to have a conflict about something else.

You lost me, what do you mean?

Originally posted by Tetrad
His point about religion being the sole reason for all hate and war has no base.

He didn\'t say it was the SOLE reason for ALL hate and war. But just look at history and how many wars have been waged over religion - European colonization was fueled by Catholicsm (heck, the Pope divided up South America for Portugal and Spain) - many wars were fought, millions died, and much of the political and civil instability in Africa is a result of the barriers brought up by Colonialism. This is just one example, with one religion.

Everyone points at Jews and Muslims, but look at Northern Ireland, the Protestants and Catholics still don\'t get along.

One of Bossieman\'s points was that religion has caused so much war and bloodshed - that\'s something I agree with wholeheartedly.

But that doesn\'t mean we should just get rid of all organized religions - I don\'t think we can live without faith. I know I can\'t.

Anyone see Dogma? Tetrad, if you haven\'t you should.

No never seen it but i will since you suggested. As far as i could tell he blaimed war and hate on human emotion and then he said

And human emotion is based on religon. .

Thus he was saying it is the falt of religion. Yes because of misguided cathlolics thought it was right to kill the native americans because they didnt except their god. There is no question that is wrong but they werent just fighting over religion they were fighting over a conflict in beliefs. There woulda been plenty of wars without religion and its late and i have no idea what im talking about anymore im out for the night and will be going on vacation tomorrow so see you all in the end of July.

That is where my opinion steps in.

Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Muslims, etc, are following a wrong faith here. They are willing to kill people over their opinions, while other faiths would never act on others unless being in the defense.

Many people such as the ones listed above will never forgive such as Jews in terms of the Holocaust. I know so many old Jewish people that are bitter and hateful because of that and it happened over 50 years ago. forgive. I have forgiven the mobs that killed the first leader of my church or how people drove my people out of New York, Missouri, etc. causing the deaths of thousands. The assassanation of the leader of the Jewish faith would\'ve been probably caused less of an uproar among old Jews than the death of around 7 million in WWII.

forgive and forget! Make peace not war! open your mind to anothers perspective and RESPECT that opinion, while explaing your own point of view! so many of the people in this world make me sick to my stomach just thinking of the hate they have over things that happened before they were born.

Case in point: Japanese demanding an apology for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, while NEVER giving one for Pearl Harbor. Jews having an apology from the pope himself for killing so many of their people. african americans taking action on slavery that happened over 100 years ago, probably only causing more hatred of them by idiots like KKK members, etc. I am sorry that my race had slaves, but why should I be punished for it?


don\'t get me started on this junk!


Eric Jacob

"To err is human"  (somebody famous said that).

Oh boy, I said I\'d wait a day, but by then I\'d have too much to say!

I believe that through misinterpretations and loss of original transcripts some of the stories could have been altered, but the principles remain.  
I believe that while going to church is not absolutely necessary, but to gather with others of your faith to "keep you in check" is always helpful.
Science explains the start of our material universe by a random event.  Now I don\'t have the numbers of that happening, but if the start of the universe was random, then I\'m buying a lottery ticket for every state and I\'m going to win every one \'cause I have a better chance of doing that then having a universe start.  God is a "timeless" entity, and in accordance to his "master plan" he started up a little thing we call the universe.  I believe that it is not in our capacity to understand this master plan.
During the time of the Dinosaurs, the Bible focuses on the Garden of Eden, a place separate to the rest of the world.
I too believe in adaptation, not full scale evolution.  We could very well have steered away from God\'s image when he created us.  We\'ve changed a lot, but I am not a descendent of a one-celled organism.
I can\'t remember words exactly, I\'m not a writer.  But "Blessed are those who believe me when they see me, but even more blessed are those that belive and never seer me" - Jesus.
I believe that I will be blessed when I pass my soul and be able then to understand all the questions I have on God.  I\'m not going to waste my life questioning something that I\'ve already decided I\'m not meant to understand in my physical state.

To those who try to be nice people and still don\'t believe in God.  I believe that your conscious is in fact, you soul, being guided by the Holy Spirit.  Just as we are born into sin, we have a natural tendency to be like God.

I wouldn\'t use Hollywood (movies) as an argument for anything.  Most movies change facts for entertainment value.

Originally posted by Troglodyte


  a)God is a "timeless" entity, and in accordance to his "master plan" he started up a little thing we call the universe......b)During the time of the Dinosaurs, the Bible focuses on the Garden of Eden, a place separate to the rest of the world.

a)Perhaps this is the answer to the question :who created God.Time is what determines a state,condition and place of something.With time you can explain a begining and an end,a creation and its alteration.If God is timeless.Plain and simple.timeless=never started and it will never end.
b)Did you know that archeologists discovered manmade drawings in caves and rocks,manmade tools,and footprints that are estimated to had been made in the ages of the dinosaurs??
When Sofoklis(if I remember well from what I ve read) went to egypt an egyptian told him that earth was destroyied 3 times and that  more advanced humans excisted before them.
Then there is someone else(I dont remember who he is)that beleives human beings lived in another planet before coming to earth.Could this be the Garden of Eden??
We should remember that the Bible is parabolic.

Originally posted by Troglodyte

I wouldn\'t use Hollywood (movies) as an argument for anything.  Most movies change facts for entertainment value.

"Left Behind" was a pretty good movie. As far as I know, it was directed by a Christian director. The movie is pretty good and gives an eerie representation of what will happen when the Rapture arrives. ooo spooky

Originally posted by Unicron!
When Sofoklis(if I remember well from what I ve read) went to egypt an egyptian told him that earth was destroyied 3 times and that  more advanced humans excisted before them.
Then there is someone else(I dont remember who he is)that beleives human beings lived in another planet before coming to earth.Could this be the Garden of Eden??
We should remember that the Bible is parabolic.

That\'s quite interesting!  It is a possiblity, and when I can find the time I will look into it.  It could be a parallel to what is recorded in the Bible.


I also saw "Left Behind,"  but the movie did have it\'s inconsistencies.

Originally posted by Sublimesjg
hmmm i don\'t seem to recall Dinosaurs or Neaderthals in the book of Genesis do you?

No I certainly don\'t and that should tell you all you need to know.

Religeion is Opium for the MASSES. It corrupts the mind OF THE WORKER!!! IT must be ELIMINATED!!!!!

*que Soviet Banner
*que Soviet Anthem

[insert hammer and sykel image here]

Originally posted by Bossieman


Prove it, tell me some things that science can´t explain ok?

Okay...explain God...try that one!  

You asked for the challenge, so don\'t hit me with
suppositions.  Prove it.  Prove God exists...if science can explain everything.  Again,...proof...not supposition & theory.

Originally posted by Bossieman


Is our God more correct than a the God that some people belive in Africa. It has to to be 1000 of Gods, what makes your God the right one?

Remember people are killing eachothe because they belive in different Gods, isn´t that pathetic?

To this basic point, you and I agree.  A zealous and jealous human nature seems determined to believe itself more important than all others (including other humans)...and to that end, we destroy each other in the vain attempt to be "the chosen few".  What *is* truely sad is how similar (not to say that different religions have their differences, they do) religions are to one another...their histories, their purposeful intentions, and their desire to foster loyalty to a supreme being(s).  Its ashame that each looks to its "own god" as THE GOD...and seems to lose site that perhaps "they" [G/god(s)] are all just one and the same.

I realize, bossieman, that as a scientist that does not believe in a God, you will not agree with this point.  That is your choice.  And I say God gave that to you.

Originally posted by nO-One
There are ofcourse good things that have come from this religion,for example christmas is a time when most people are happy.

Ouch...man, I wish you hadn\'t said that...  Care to dig up some statistics regarding which part of the year comprises some of the highest rates of suicide?  Yup...Christmas time.  All religion aside, folks are most depressed during this time of the year.  Although this point is debatable, there is merit in the fact that the commercialization of Christmas can depress a portion of society that cannot meet the economical and/or emotional demands of holiday expectation or handle the contempt felt for not having friends/family to share in a time that, again, the images of Norman Rockwell have inshrined as "perfect".

Originally posted by Toxical
Shiiaaat, this is getting nasty

Let us just say the following:

1) We can not prove or disprove the existence of God.

2) God as a standalone icon of goodness and righteousness is alright.

3) Men take God, and through God religion to extremes, which ends up killing the innocent, robbing the poor, and limiting human growth.  IMO.

DAMN RIGHT and to the point!

w1ngman - okay, first off I have to say that I believe in God.

Now, about your screaming to the heavens PROOOOVEEEE ITTTTT!! Well, it\'s hard to prove an abstract concept. That\'s like pointing to a yellow car and asking me what colour it is, I say it\'s yellow, you say prove it, I say it\'s yellow because it reflects light at a certain wavelength, you say, but "prove it\'s Y E L L O W".

What are our conditions for proving the existance of God? Should we set up a test experiment - let\'s say we get some poor bastard to jump off a cliff, but before he does so, he prays to God to save him. I think we all know what the outcome of that will be.

Of course, just because we cannot prove that God DOESN\'T exist, means that he DOES exist. I mean, we could have other abstract concepts, say we can\'t prove that God DOESN\'T exist, but then does that mean that we are all really a part of a massive experiment by alien beings who have created a universe for us and are currently watching me as I type this on my computer? See it\'s all very absurd, but I hope you see my point.

When Bossieman said that science can explain everything, he didn\'t mean abstract concepts. He meant say, \'Explain emotions using science\' - and he would say they\'re merely electrical signals in our brain.

I\'m playing devil\'s advocate here, since I do believe in God, but I am also a scientist and Bossieman\'s not here right now to reply.

Does anyone know why this argument has died down? Well I will tell you.

It stems from a few select people whose opinions and ideas will never change, even when they are presented with other sides of the arguments, not suggesting they are even right, just suggesting that the other side open his mind.

Bossieman has apparently has a total lack of knowledge on what it is to present an argument. An argument is not made to impress people, an argument is to state your point, while coming out correct. Well, when you make statements you cannot back up and someone tells you to prove those ideas or states opinions directly opposite of yours while still not proving them, you should at least listen!

I don\'t know what you have against Americans but it really goes to show you that stereotypes run rampant, yes even among the "scientists". No, Most americans do NOT run around saying how we are better than every other country. You would be a fool to think that. Why? Because we are made up of every other country! My ancestors are mainly from Sweden and it mystifies me how I developed into such an open-minded person when all the Swedes, Norwegians, Icelandics, etc. I have met obviously do not know how to learn anything new or at least accomadate the idea.

I don\'t care what the heck you believe in, but you BETTER believe that the world is going bye-bye soon. Whether it be through chemical-nuclear warfare (your point of view) or the Second Coming of Christ (my point of view). I give it around 30 years. Be afraid, be very afraid. and if it is WAR. you know what will motivate this human ending war? Stupidity, ignorance, jealousy, pride, greed, all things some of the members on this board facilitate every day, unfortunately. It seems we have not \'evolved\', as we are still killing eachother over stupid crap like opinions. Get over yourselves.

I find it funny that we look at aliens to be of higher intelligence than us, therefore peaceful. How did they get passed this stage of evolution than? (our stage) Stopping war is easy, you follow simple Christian ethics: forgive and forget!


get over yourselves and get to church. Because faith without works is dead, and surely no faith is worse.


Eric Jacob