Well, I just returned from the midnight session of Episode 3:

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Very critical.


[sp]I agree it was a little to easy to kill all the Jedis though. Seemed like they were all dead in about 2 minutes flat.[/sp]

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

The only thing that i thought was to quick was [sp] palpatine killing the 3 other jedis with windu[/sp]


that was way to quick.

Yeah.. I forgot to mention that!  WTF?

4 on 1 reduced to 1 on 1 in 30 seconds...

[Bobs_Hardware]

SPOILERS FUCK OFF SPOILERS SPOILERS

Originally posted by Coredweller
[sp]Why was it so easy knock off all the Jedi "Masters?"  Getting zotted in the back by a gddamn clone is not a very believable way for a Jedi to go down.  Why were Yoda and Obiwan the only ones bright enough to dodge the bullet?

I remember in episodes IV – VI when we heard how Vader "betrayed and murdered" the Jedi back in the day, I always figured it would have been done in a much more underhanded way.  You\'ve got to acknowledge that the Jedi are a force to be reckoned with, so for one or two Sith to take them all out should have required a very devious plan.  I figured it would have been done in true dark-side manner, by tricking them into a situation where they couldn\'t fight back.  Like maybe blow up a planet they were on, or poison them or something.  It would have strengthened this story to make that a little more interesting.

I also didn\'t understand why Vader was so trusting of the Emperor at the end.  For several scenes, Palpatine was suggesting that only by joining the dark side would Anakin be able to learn the unnatural power of restoring life to Padme.  He holds this carrot out for Anakin, then when Anakin helps him off Windu, Palpatine continues:  "As I was saying… together, I\'m sure you and I could discover the lost skill of restoring life…"  WHAT?  You mean you never knew it to begin with????  If I were Anakin, I would have jabbed Palpatine in the crotch with my light sabre on general principles.  Later, Palpatine tells Vader "Oh… it seems you accidentally killed Padme, dumbfuck."  AND HE BELIEVES IT???  When exactly does he find out that one of his children actually lived?  Sometime between Episodes IV & V, I guess.  I wonder how the Emperor broke that news to him?  Should have been another opportunity for a light sabre stroke to Palpatine\'s testicles, in my opinion.

I also didn\'t quite accept that it was so easy for Obiwan to sever Vader\'s legs at the end of the battle.  Their sabre battle seemed like a total standoff until that point.  They set it up in an obvious manner… Obiwan saying "don\'t try it!  I have the high ground!"  Then he tries it anyway.  I guess this was supposed to be some nugget of light sabre dueling wisdom that we can\'t appreciate.  Well, I didn\'t appreciate it.  [/sp]
Overall, good movie though.  

Uhm..

You don\'t think that puppeteering the entire events of the first 3 movies is underhanded?? Palps organized the creation of a clone army with a secret "Operation 66" or whatever programmed into their brains to do as he said, when he said. Given that he orchestrated a war, in which the best possible chance for the Republic to win was to use a clone army that he himself had organised purely for this one event in the future.. that seems pretty darn underhanded to me.

More so than luring them to a planet, then blowing the planet up. :rolleyes:

I figured it would have been done in true dark-side manner, by tricking them into a situation where they couldn\'t fight back.

Well, the thing is, he did trick them into a situation that they couldn\'t fight back from.  Near 100% reliance on a clone army who were programmed to betray them. OB1 and Yoda were merely lucky to escape. OB1 would have been dead too, had the Emperor ordered Operation 66 merely 30 seconds earlier. And Yoda only had to face one (or was it two?) individual troopers.

The other Jedi deaths (and I would presume that there were far more than the mere 5 or so Jedi\'s they showed) all seemed perfectly plausible.

As far as trusting Palpating goes, did he really? All he really wanted from him was the ability to save Padme\'s life. He even planned to kill the Emperor when the time was right. After that, I suppose he became too twisted with the dark side. Though, that\'s an easy rebuttle. It\'s like saying "How did he manage to beat all those bad guys!?" "... magic."

Palps killing the other Jedi\'s was merely meant to show how powerful he was.  Though, I would expect the Jedi\'s to put up a few parries, or something.

If those Jedi Masters didn\'t have enough defensive skills to avoid being blizasted by some dumb clones, then they shoulda been back on the homeworld studying the Jedi Torah or whatever.

But they were shot in the back. You can\'t defend if you don\'t know that you need to defend..

I also didn\'t quite accept that it was so easy for Obiwan to sever Vader\'s legs at the end of the battle. Their sabre battle seemed like a total standoff until that point. They set it up in an obvious manner… Obiwan saying "don\'t try it! I have the high ground!" Then he tries it anyway. I guess this was supposed to be some nugget of light sabre dueling wisdom that we can\'t appreciate. Well, I didn\'t appreciate it.

That was the experience of OB1 up against the arrogance of Anakin. He wanted to upstage OB1 by doing what OB1 told him he could not. Though, I think his biggest mistake was instead of doing a little hop, he did a massive summersault.

100% agree with Bob..

[sp]Palp planned everything. the creation of the clone army, the creation of droid army. Fueled the separatist and created the war. Kept himself hidden as a Sith, went from senator to chancelor to supremem chancelor to Emperor.. Palpatine is the Phantom menace.

in 4-5-6 my fav caracter was Darth Vader.. it\'s slowly turning out to be Palpatine.

I still dont understand why Yoda told Obi he "found" a way to speak with is old master Qui.. ? i mean, i dont see the relation it has with "a new hope". Was it only so Obi could find is uncle Owen ?
[/sp]

[§ôµÏG®ïñD]

no, it was so luke could talk to obiwan when he was dead and vise visa..


gezz, do i have to write a book to explain these simple things.


and bob, jedis are meant to sense attacks, no matter where they\'re from. Watch the movies and take note of how many blaster attacks they defend that they don\'t even see and sabre attacks.

[Bobs_Hardware]

They\'re ability to use the force had been diminished. They were distracted, and by the time they would have seen it coming, it was too late. All the situations they showed turned out plausible.

[GmanJoe]

True, a Jedi cannot single handedly take on an entire regiment of Storm Troopers. Especially when they\'re surrounded. They can only leap for so long and so high. Even Boba Fett\'s dad gave Obi plenty of trouble at the clone factory.

[CHIZZY]

also, these weren\'t "dumb clones"... they were clones of the most gifter warrior they could find, Jango Fett....

BS.  They were cannon fodder.  Are they any better than the dumb stormtroopers who got their asses whipped by a bunch of teddy bears in Return of the Jedi?  I don\'t think so.

The Jedi Masters on the various frontline planets even didn\'t put up much of a fight against those clones with their clumsy blasters.  The whole idea of Jedi Masters getting beaten down with blasters is completely wrong.  These dudes eat up blaster fire for breakfast.  It just felt completely false to me.

The Jedi Masters on the various frontline planets

for what it matters most were knights, not masters.

I am pretty sure that those Jedis were confident about their "teammates" and didnt have to wory about them...

Anyway, it\'s the part of the movie i didnt like.. i wish vader would have slaughter them all by himself..

Originally posted by Coredweller
BS.  They were cannon fodder.  Are they any better than the dumb stormtroopers who got their asses whipped by a bunch of teddy bears in Return of the Jedi?  I don\'t think so.

The Jedi Masters on the various frontline planets even didn\'t put up much of a fight against those clones with their clumsy blasters.  The whole idea of Jedi Masters getting beaten down with blasters is completely wrong.  These dudes eat up blaster fire for breakfast.  It just felt completely false to me.

I agree with Core.  The Jedi have the ability to sense attacks from all directions - ie. Luke learning to use the Force with the practice droid in Ep IV on the Falcon with the blast shield on his helmet down.

Also Bob, how was their ability to use the Force dimished?  Apparently OB\'s and Yoda\'s hadn\'t.

I think Shockwave linked a site that had the original script and after reading that one - with a few edits would have made much more sense.

[Bobs_Hardware]

What?? They only have a slight sense of direction of blaster fire, it\'s not like they can sense "an entire regiment is about to be ordered by a secret Dark Master of the force and attack me".

I don\'t care who you are, deflecting one or two blaster bullets at a time, or deflecting about 20 of them is completely different. These people were relying on the clones, and the last thing they expected (regardless of their current abilities to use the force) was for them to turn on them. And by the time they did realize that, it was too late.

And I already explained how Yoda and OB1 managed to escape. It has nothing to do with their force not being diminished, it was nothing more than luck.

Also Bob, how was their ability to use the Force dimished?

It was explained in Episode II. Yoda says so. And the only person that knows is the Dark Lord of the Sith.

The jedi, all of them, had a diminished ability to use the force.  This was talked about in both Ep2 and Ep3, I think especially in Ep2.  

Both OB1 and Yoda\'s abilities had diminished as well.  OB1 didn\'t see the attack coming either, and no one sensed that Palpetine was a sith lord, something they said showed their lack of ability to use the force, at the time.

Some of the Jedi did know something was wrong and try to fight back, such as the first one they showed, but were just in two tough of a position.  The first Jedi they showed tried to fight back, but being at the front of a squadron of troops, attacking a squadron of robots, and having both sides firing on him and only him was a bit too much, even for a jedi.

And there is a difference between the blaster droid on the falcon and this, because on the falcon, Luke knew something was coming.  He knew to look for it.  The jedi didn\'t.  As another example of this from ep 4-6, look at how the emporer, who clearly had a good deal of control of the force, didn\'t sense Vader\'s turning on him in the end of ep6.  Look at how Vader didn\'t see the attacks from the falcon coming until it was too late in Ep4.  The difference between that and a blaster droid?  They were both situations where no attack was expected, so they didn\'t know to look for one.  It was the same case here.

Though I agree, Vader hunting them down and killing em all would have been cooler

Im with cored and everybody on that side of the argument. I was going to explain until i got caught up in doing something. I think everybody summed everything up pretty well.