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Author Topic: X-Box X-ageratted?  (Read 7030 times)

Offline Dwarrior
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Sigh.. People.
« Reply #75 on: December 28, 2000, 11:09:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Quote
Originally posted by Dwarrior
Quote
Originally posted by §ôµÏG®ïñD
Just so everyone knows. Dwarrior IS docwiz. Thank you. :D


   Just so everyone knows, you are offically confused.  I don\'t know who docwhiz is.  Look at my IP address. I would hope it would be someone who would agree with me who has some brains to understand simple concepts. [/B]


I did check your ip. Do u want mm and Bjorn too back me up on this.. You see. With VBB we can check a persons ip. then get the forum too search for OTHER people with the SAME ip.. Guess what.. DOCWIZ came up with your ip. Same ip, Same isp, Same person.

Whatever u think is a LIE is hype DW. Otherwise u MUST say PS2 Hype was also a LIE.. If not you are just another FANBOY. [/B]


  How could I post if my IP is banned.  Another thing my IP address is dynamic and not static and I am using Saber.net here in Ukiah, California.  I don\'t know my IP Addy because its different everytime when I dial up...

Offline Dwarrior
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X-Box X-ageratted?
« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2000, 11:21:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Let me get this straight.

When Sony hypes its lies.
When MS hypes its them just having problems, but being honest.

Uhm..Yeah
:rolleyes:


  I didn\'t say Microsoft lied at all.  You can do 100 million if you like I said strip off dynamic stuff like shading and lighting and no curved surfaces.  Sony outright lied, you can\'t even do 66 million even flat shaded.

  Sony lied about 66 million because even with the most basic abilities you will never see that number, never.  End of story.  At least with Microsoft\'s numbers you can meet them realistically.  Nvidia or Microsoft didn\'t say that xbox could do 250 or 300 million polygons sustained.

  Dude, I am just telling the truth.  Sony said PS2 could do 66 million, want to show me even with flat shading how this can be done????  Answer there is no way in Hell, its impossible.  

  I showed you how you could do 100 million and Michael Abrash shows you as well.  

  So please don\'t be such a jackass, just because you like to protect Sony doesn\'t mean we can\'t all see the light and understand phony numbers.

  At least with the Xbox you can meet that 100 Million polys, it might not be easy and you might have to sacrifice dynamic lighting and shading and curved surfaces but it can be done.  Sony can\'t even do 66 million even at its best and its not even realistic.

  Xbox, gamecube, and PS2 will all take hits for dynamic lighting, shading, and curved surfaces, so the more attractive games will average around 60 million polygons per second on the Xbox, thats more than what is possible on the PS2.

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X-Box X-ageratted?
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2000, 12:19:59 AM »
Almost every company hypes up their system. Sony did and Microsoft too. Why is everybody making such a big deal about it.



Offline §ôµÏG®ïñD

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X-Box X-ageratted?
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2000, 04:15:45 AM »
I haven\'t banned all docwiz ips man.. Just the one starting with 63.203.###.###, That is the STATIC ip.
But that ip had your name on it with DOCWIZ.

You have the SAME ISP, SAME IP. That means...

1. either DOCWIZ lives with you.
2. You have BEEN too docwiz house and posted with his com.
3. You ARE docwiz.

Its not hard too get ANOTHER ISP.. A dialup with a dynamic ip.. I can change my ip myself.




[Edited by §ôµÏG®ïñD on 12-29-2000 at 07:25 AM]
  Ǧµî✟å® Ĵµñķîë!!  

Offline Huddy
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X-Box X-ageratted?
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2000, 08:08:53 PM »
You truly are a god SouL. :D
\"What a terrible job, the goal keeper didn\'t know what hit him!\"[/b]

-Mark Laurenceson

Offline Living-In-Clip

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X-Box X-ageratted?
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2000, 09:21:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dwarrior
Quote
Originally posted by Living-In-Clip
Let me get this straight.

When Sony hypes its lies.
When MS hypes its them just having problems, but being honest.

Uhm..Yeah
:rolleyes:


  I didn\'t say Microsoft lied at all.  You can do 100 million if you like I said strip off dynamic stuff like shading and lighting and no curved surfaces.  Sony outright lied, you can\'t even do 66 million even flat shaded.

  Sony lied about 66 million because even with the most basic abilities you will never see that number, never.  End of story.  At least with Microsoft\'s numbers you can meet them realistically.  Nvidia or Microsoft didn\'t say that xbox could do 250 or 300 million polygons sustained.

  Dude, I am just telling the truth.  Sony said PS2 could do 66 million, want to show me even with flat shading how this can be done????  Answer there is no way in Hell, its impossible.  

  I showed you how you could do 100 million and Michael Abrash shows you as well.  

  So please don\'t be such a jackass, just because you like to protect Sony doesn\'t mean we can\'t all see the light and understand phony numbers.

  At least with the Xbox you can meet that 100 Million polys, it might not be easy and you might have to sacrifice dynamic lighting and shading and curved surfaces but it can be done.  Sony can\'t even do 66 million even at its best and its not even realistic.

  Xbox, gamecube, and PS2 will all take hits for dynamic lighting, shading, and curved surfaces, so the more attractive games will average around 60 million polygons per second on the Xbox, thats more than what is possible on the PS2. [/B]


I protect Sony? Your totally wrong. If anyone, I protect Sega. And I\'ve protected the Xbox plenty of times on this forum. I am very unbiased when it comes to the systems. Hell, I will buy and Xbox come launch.

But, I am also not naive enough to believe it will be this excellent system that puts an end to other systems.

I also realize, unlike some, that the graphical differences bewteen the systems are going to very slight. Not enough to even really matter.

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« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2000, 04:26:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dwarrior:
Xbox, gamecube, and PS2 will all take hits for dynamic lighting, shading, and curved surfaces, so the more attractive games will average around 60 million polygons per second on the Xbox, thats more than what is possible on the PS2


Ok, 60 million PPS, rate taken from a 60 FPS game, that would be 1 million polys per frame. Would a GAME company use 1 million polys for their characters/designs. If there is, how many? Good experienced companies will balance their gameplay and graphics. In my opinion, GameCube will have more chance of winning compared to X Box. What\'s the use of super powered console if game companies are already more than happy to use just about a portion of it\'s power to create a good game.
In PS2, take The Bouncer for example, one of PS2\'s most heavy graphics and anticipated game out there. I\'m not sure how many polys are there in a second, probably about 12 million polys a sec or more and look, it\'s already a superb game with more than 200,000 polys per frame (I have to admit that these are just "assumed-as-it-seen" figures).
Now GameCube is somewhat about equal or more to PS2 in graphics power and I say it\'s a good move. But M$, they thought appearance (specs and features) is everything since they thought they\'re the most powerful "thingy" on the planet. The inside (games, software) is as important, and how about new ground breaking features no one has seen or even thought of instead of the same poly/frame wars.

Offline ChocoboSquared
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X-Box X-ageratted?
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2000, 10:24:22 AM »
unless PS2 completely fails or the Gamecube turns out to be a total dissapointment, there is no way that microsoft will win.  Specs won\'t save the Xbox, it\'s all about popularity.  And the Xbox is virtually unknown or unconsidered by the casual gamer.
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« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2000, 11:10:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ChocoboSquared
unless PS2 completely fails or the Gamecube turns out to be a total dissapointment, there is no way that microsoft will win.  Specs won\'t save the Xbox, it\'s all about popularity.  And the Xbox is virtually unknown or unconsidered by the casual gamer.

There is a thing called advertising.  And what makes things popular?  Perhaps a little advertising and the promotion of some stellar games.  Sony did both for the PS1 so why can\'t MS or Nintendo.

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« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2000, 12:32:08 PM »
Here we have Microsoft hyping X-box to be much more than it really is, to distance it from the competition.(plus you have this hypocrite/fanboy Dwarrior/DocWiz)

300 Mil polygons
8:1 texture compression
300Mhz processor
100 Mil  polygons/with all effects

What a load of ****!

Next we have Sony who pertty much opted for the same effect when announcing their system. Also accompanied by some fanboys that are just thrilled by the fact that, Microsoft pulled that same bull-**** stunt.

Put it all together and what do you get?

Fanboys that are so determin to prove X-box could put out almost 100 mil polygons with all effects. And Fanboys claiming that PS2 game can certainly look better than X-box games.

I know neither of the two parties wants to hear this, but I\'ll say it any fu*king way!

X-box With absolutely all FX, lights, and textures, expect these games to push an arverage of 10 million polygons/second. That number may be a little below or above, so 10 is average. Don\'t be confused though, 10 is more than enough to do what ever one pleases. CG movies like TOY STORY run below that number, and don\'t even come close to the number of effects that Next-gen Graphics are capable of. BTW, you\'ll almost not be able to tell the difference between GC and X-box games. One or two exclusives(on each system) might play a tough-o-war beween which has the best graphics.

PS2: Fanboys are always quick to point out it can push 20 million polygons with all effects....more than GC\'s 6+. So naturally, they would get the idea that PS2 games will look better than X-box\'s games with 10 million polygons/second.
However, let me remind such fanboys that PS2\'s max polygon power with all effects, meant; with fog, lighting, one texture, filltering, mip-mapping, anti-aliasing, motion blur/depth of field, alpha blendind, and one or two others. THOSE EFFECTS ARE A FAR CRY FROM WHAT X-BOX CAN DO IN HARDWARE!
fanboys must have failed to realize that technology has come a far way since PS2 GPU development. It\'s so amazing because it\'s only a year or two after, and you have tons of new features, never before heard of, and the great part is...it\'s all in hardware!(less hit on performance compared to big hit with software coded effects). Hardware effects and features like; Bump mapping, multi-texture layering, 8 lights in hardware, hardware TCL, Vertex skinning, EMBM, vertex-lighting, 3D textures, realtime shadow mapping, pixel-shading, animation blending, per pixel AA & FSAA, S3TC, Z-buffer compression, dynamic lighting/shadow effects, , and lots more are possible on X-box(and GC) in hardware.

Technically, PS2 can do these, but they would have to do it in software. When that is done, it takes a significant hit on performance. So much so, that if you do major stuff like Multi-texturing(or especially multiple lights) there\'s not much of those other effects you could do. So that 20 million number is very insignificant and will drop...drop far, depending of how many software effect you want to support. There\'s no way you\'ll see all those effects on PS2....the hardware is not unlimited you know.

If such effects like ONE extra lights, takes a performance hit of millions of polygons/second on GameCube and X-box(mind you, that\'s an easy hit), imagine if you those effects
on PS2(in software) that can take almost double the hit. Many of you don\'t seem to understand this concept. PS2 is powerful, but even with X-box specs being lowered, I wouldn\'t go as far as claim it\'s on par or above X-box.

Still, you guys here can\'t bare anyone to say such things.
So I won\'t say it directly to you. But for me, I wouldn\'t count on PS2 games ever looking better than X-box games(not even on par)

As for the X-box fan boys...DREAM ON!

You will never see 100 million polygons with all effects(and I mean all)...not 50, not 40, not even 20!  

PS: GameCube and DreamCast fanboys must be enjoying this squabble!


[Edited by GC-PS2-DC-XB on 12-31-2000 at 03:37 PM]

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« Reply #85 on: December 31, 2000, 02:00:52 PM »
GC-PS2-DC-XB, the specs you just gave for xbox are the old ones. It has 6:1 texture compression ans only a 250Mhz GPu. The 100million polygon per second thing was what Nvida says not Microsoft.

The way I see it if Sony  was able to do it with the PS then Microsoft can do it with the Xbox.

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« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2000, 02:30:49 PM »
I know those were "old specs"!!

Hello, that\'s the whole point...full of it!

Also, Nvidia can\'t go as far as to officially claim Specs for X-box, even  though they made the chip, they can only come forth with MS\'s consent or after they come forth first. All those bull crap numbers you saw, MS was sporting them on it\'s home page, I don\'t know where or why you guys find these excuses from. They\'re just as pathetic as the specs MS was claiming...and still are.

Even in the GDC transcript, Microsoft were claiming those numbers. Where did you got off accusing Nvidia?

Even spec comparison gave out by MICROSOFT, has those inflated figures.

Sony did it so MS could do it too???? Dude, you seem to enjoy lies, and false reports! Why?

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X-Box X-ageratted?
« Reply #87 on: December 31, 2000, 03:48:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GC-PS2-DC-XB
I know those were "old specs"!!

Hello, that\'s the whole point...full of it!

Also, Nvidia can\'t go as far as to officially claim Specs for X-box, even  though they made the chip, they can only come forth with MS\'s consent or after they come forth first. All those bull crap numbers you saw, MS was sporting them on it\'s home page, I don\'t know where or why you guys find these excuses from. They\'re just as pathetic as the specs MS was claiming...and still are.

Even in the GDC transcript, Microsoft were claiming those numbers. Where did you got off accusing Nvidia?

Even spec comparison gave out by MICROSOFT, has those inflated figures.

Sony did it so MS could do it too???? Dude, you seem to enjoy lies, and false reports! Why?

GC-PS2-DC-XB, the XBox will be quite a bit more powerful than PS2.  Now, if you want to believe that XBox will only be able to do 10 mpps, then that\'s you.  I\'ve read the Micheal Abrash article a few times and it clearly states otherwise (the NV2A at the 250MHz speed).  What\'s so funny to me is that everyone here seems to be a tech head.  People can make claims like PS2 can do 10 mpps or XBox can\'t do 40 mpps, blaa, blaaa, blaaaa.  How do we know?  Since probably 99.9% of US (yes I\'m including myself) know absolutely nothing about specs and what those specs mean, we haven\'t a clue as to what we are talking about.  I think we should see what the developers have to say.  It\'s clearly a fact that some developers have had their issues w/PS2 while other\'s like the machine.  I\'ve read several article from developers working on the XBox and they have praised the machine and have made claims of reaching high polygon counts early in the stage (using GPUs with less power than the 250MHZ NV2A).  Many developers are already claiming their approval for the machine and the performance they are getting.  I don\'t know what that means but I can\'t wait to find out.

Offline Black Samurai
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X-Box X-ageratted?
« Reply #88 on: December 31, 2000, 03:54:01 PM »
Who cares about polygon count and processor speed? If a console\'s games suck, then no one will buy it. just like the Atari jaguar(Not that the games sucked.Its just that no one bought it).
[SIZE=\"4\"][COLOR=\"Red\"]I\'m sorry, That\'s not a hair question.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2000, 04:36:32 PM »
You are getting me wrong, I think!

You say that you know nothing, yet, you read Ambrash\'s articles. And you still don\'t know anything? So why read them?....

The problem with you all, not you exactly...but many other, is that they read these articles...they see X-box is capable of such high numbers and stuff. Naturally they somehow skip over the fact that thoes number include very little(and standard) effects, such as lit, shaded, and anti-aliaized polygons. You want pretty games, yet you want these outrageous figures....it can\'t happen that way.

Then you read more articles and they usually only mention very little effects....HELLOOOOOOO! X-box is capable of a multitude of effects, lights, and texture layers.

And in many cases, when ever Ambrash, Allard, or Backley point out that more of there effects are being used, you always hear numbers below 15. In many cases, these numbers don\'t even point out that absolutely all features were in use. So numbers could be potentially lower. I never said or even implied that X-box is not capable of 60-100 million polygons, but you can\'t have pretty games and these numbers as well. I don\'t think you want to be playing a games with no lighting what so ever, or no special features, or no standard features. Damn, get it into your heads man.

BTW, this is for all those who have no idea what they speak about or what to expect from X-box. This is X-box\'s GPU at 250Mhz:

Quote
"Xbox GPU will be able, even at 250 MHz, to handle up to 125 million Gouraud-shaded, two-texture triangles per second, complete with transformation, clipping, and perspective projection. With one infinite hardware light added, the rate will be at least 62.5 Mtris/sec.; with eight local lights, at least 8 Mtris/sec."

http://www.ddj.com/articles/2000/0008/0008a/0008a.htm

125 Mill --> if you want to play with no light, if you do manage to see(magically) there is no fancy effects.

62.5 Mill--> you have light now, still two textures, and no really fancy effects. Is that what you want? Tons of physical detail, and a bland/dull look!

8.5 Mill --> Here were have 8.5, I said 10(see, I even made it bigger) and I suddenly become a fool. Well take it from Mr. Backley then...8.5, still only 2 textures, all lights, still no fancy effects. That number could only be smaller with 4 textures, bump mapping, environment mapping, Shadwo mapping, per-pixel processes, vertex lighting...and many more.

You see, I took the assumption that, this is all effects, even though it is not all effects, because I know X-box will be at least be very comparable to GC. I also said 10 millions, when it really is 8.5.

Yet, there are people who insist of spreading erroneous information, claiming 30-60+ mil polygons/second with absolutely all effects, and even 100 mill. Helloooo fools! X-box has up to 4 textue layers and 8 lights, using 1-2 textures, and 0-1 lights to achieve such high numbers IS NOT ALL FU*KING EFFECTS, GET THAT IN YOUR DUMBS SKULLS!

You people are getting dumber by the seconds...damn man!
It\'s making me sick, now!

X-box is already powerful enough, stop making it more than it really is.

[Edited by GC-PS2-DC-XB on 12-31-2000 at 07:44 PM]

 

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